These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Hi-Sec Drifters and Seekers
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#41 - 2015-04-21 00:15:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Energetic Monk wrote:
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:
Kay, just so we're all nice and clear on this, Antikythera (Drifter, Circadian loot) goes for 11.5 mil in Jita right now.
Drifters always drop 2 Antikythera. Circadian Seekers have a chance to drop 1 Anitkythera (about 40%)

It takes about 70 Thermal DPS to kill a Drifter.

For me, I lose 1.5 million per Drifter kill, and theoretically gain 23 million.

I don't kill Drifters for money, but ~21.5 million per kill sounds pretty nice to me.


Reading the bolded back and forth i've somewhat came up with that there's something being told here.

I suspect a frigate being wasted on getting doomsdayed by a Drifter, and then the Drifter is killed by something,
capable of those 70 Thermal DPS before it can? activate the DD once again.

Yeah, you're right, But Frigates do all the work with me.

I use a cheap Tech I ship with any related modules I can grab off the market, kill the overshield, get doomsdayed, fly back with a much more expensive faction Frigate, and finish him.

70 Thermal DPS is just a guideline.
Of course, there are much more important aspects that need to be taken into consideration.
Namely volley damage.

I would have actually liked to do the first part with Rookie Ships, but it's just not possible unfortunately.


The doomsday is unimportant for the second part.
Once a Drifter uses its doomsday, it cannot use it again for another hour.
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#42 - 2015-04-21 00:38:08 UTC
And quite a few other important things: the lore article says 400km, but I suspect it may be out to 500km.

And also, I think I've mentioned this, but if you warp out; are out of range, or otherwise leave the grid when a Drifter is about to doomsday you, whatever is the first ship you warp back in (or get in range with) they will instantly doomsday.

You can't stay on grid, back that doesn't particularly stop you from killing them without losing your ship.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#43 - 2015-04-21 16:03:50 UTC
Ok, you seem pretty knowledgeable on this. So I ask you, if you are fighting a Circadian Seeker swarm and the BS shows up, it still will not use the doomsday until you blast through the overshield? So you are free to kill all the seekers and then engage the BS, lose ship, reship, and then kill the BS?
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#44 - 2015-04-21 18:31:31 UTC
Yes, you just have to be able to survive the 1.2k dps per second the Drifter will be doing to you while you finish off the Seekers.

DD will not fire until the overshield (blue bar) is depleted.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#45 - 2015-04-21 18:48:51 UTC
Ok, so under that logic. I can use a Marauder to kill the Circadians, dock and switch to a "sacrificial lamb", burn the overshield, die in a fire, reship, kill drifter in my marauder.
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#46 - 2015-04-22 00:26:39 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Ok, so under that logic. I can use a Marauder to kill the Circadians, dock and switch to a "sacrificial lamb", burn the overshield, die in a fire, reship, kill drifter in my marauder.

Exactly.

However, your 'sacrificial lamb' will either need to tank the 2560 DPS until you shoot through the overshield, or avoid it completely.
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2015-04-22 11:50:39 UTC
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:
And quite a few other important things: the lore article says 400km, but I suspect it may be out to 500km.

And also, I think I've mentioned this, but if you warp out; are out of range, or otherwise leave the grid when a Drifter is about to doomsday you, whatever is the first ship you warp back in (or get in range with) they will instantly doomsday.

You can't stay on grid, back that doesn't particularly stop you from killing them without losing your ship.



This may sound like a lot of work but can you use 2 ships, a battleshipand destroyer, for example. Burn the overshield down to just above collapse, then use a Mobile Depot to install some warp core stablizers, warp the BS out and have the destroyer crack the overshield. He gets DD, but the BS can then finish the Drifter off.

Would that work?
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#48 - 2015-04-22 11:55:59 UTC
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:
And quite a few other important things: the lore article says 400km, but I suspect it may be out to 500km.

And also, I think I've mentioned this, but if you warp out; are out of range, or otherwise leave the grid when a Drifter is about to doomsday you, whatever is the first ship you warp back in (or get in range with) they will instantly doomsday.

You can't stay on grid, back that doesn't particularly stop you from killing them without losing your ship.



This may sound like a lot of work but can you use 2 ships, a battleship and destroyer, for example. Burn the overshield down to just above collapse, then use a Mobile Depot to install some warp core stablizers, warp the BS out and have the destroyer crack the overshield. He gets DD, but the BS can then finish the Drifter off.

Would that work?

Yes, but flag the the warp core stabs.

Drifters only scramble you when they're firing their Doomsday.
You can warp freely in any other part of the engagement.
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2015-04-22 15:43:35 UTC
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:
And quite a few other important things: the lore article says 400km, but I suspect it may be out to 500km.

And also, I think I've mentioned this, but if you warp out; are out of range, or otherwise leave the grid when a Drifter is about to doomsday you, whatever is the first ship you warp back in (or get in range with) they will instantly doomsday.

You can't stay on grid, back that doesn't particularly stop you from killing them without losing your ship.



This may sound like a lot of work but can you use 2 ships, a battleship and destroyer, for example. Burn the overshield down to just above collapse, then use a Mobile Depot to install some warp core stablizers, warp the BS out and have the destroyer crack the overshield. He gets DD, but the BS can then finish the Drifter off.

Would that work?

Yes, but flag the the warp core stabs.

Drifters only scramble you when they're firing their Doomsday.
You can warp freely in any other part of the engagement.


Ohhh cool. Good call, thanks.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#50 - 2015-04-23 13:30:42 UTC
So how is Ferni doing kills with just a frig? Can the lux whatever be speed tanked?

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#51 - 2015-04-23 13:36:26 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
So how is Ferni doing kills with just a frig? Can the lux whatever be speed tanked?

Yes.

The Lux Kontos have near the same tracking as 280mm Artillery Cannons. That's only 0.062rad/s.
There are laughable extremes as a result of this.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#52 - 2015-04-23 14:03:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
So how is Ferni doing kills with just a frig? Can the lux whatever be speed tanked?

Yes.

The Lux Kontos have near the same tracking as 280mm Artillery Cannons. That's only 0.062rad/s.
There are laughable extremes as a result of this.

OK, that wins the thread. But if there are two drifters its going to be a pain to speed tank both. You need to orbit one while you keep your orbital plane flat on to the other.
What range do drifters orbit?

Also, I don't get that Rattlesnake fit. I put it into PYFA, and got 632K EHP for the shields, even with overheat. That's less than the 750K you get form the doomsday. In addition, the shield regen is 977 EHP/s, which is less than the 1280 of a Drifter. So how does it work?

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#53 - 2015-04-23 15:04:52 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
What range do drifters orbit?

...

But if there are two drifters its going to be a pain to speed tank both. You need to orbit one while you keep your orbital plane flat on to the other.
This is the big challenge. I actually technically have to manually orbit and keep my velocity vector perpendicular to the Drifter's at all times.
I can sometimes get away with a whole lot of luck, but that doesn't really mean much to me.
The way the 3D camera works makes it very hard to manually orbit properly.

I haven't had a whole lot of luck with it so far, hence the multiple wrecks in that image from me trying to kill the other Drifter.

Vincent Athena wrote:

Also, I don't get that Rattlesnake fit. I put it into PYFA, and got 632K EHP for the shields, even with overheat. That's less than the 750K you get form the doomsday. In addition, the shield regen is 977 EHP/s, which is less than the 1280 of a Drifter. So how does it work?

I have no idea.
I didn't make the fit; I can't fly battleships, so I don't really know too much.
They were going to try use logistics, I think.


You can always just range them.

At 217,175 metres exactly, the Drifter Chance-To-Hit becomes completely null.
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#54 - 2015-04-23 15:09:07 UTC
Oh, I forgot to answer:
Drifters orbit at 15km. Somehow they manage to keep a perfect orbit at 15 - 16km.

Also a note to others in the thread, normal Drifter chase velocity is 2200m/s (or 2.3, within that range). That's also their orbit speed.
Their chase velocity when the target is at extreme range or is moving faster than 2.2km/s is 3500 m/s.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#55 - 2015-04-23 15:28:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
I played around a bit with that 'snake fit. If you replace one shield extender with a third deadspace invul, replace a power diagnostic with a DCU, and use three extender rigs, then the buffer is 1.01 million, overheat on. With the overheat off, you can tank 1250 DPS. Still low, so you will need to warp around a bit to give the shields a chance to recover. This will be especially needed just before the doomsday fires. You need to:

Almost take down the overshield
Either dock, or just warp about, to let your shields recover
Kill the overshield, take the DD
Kill the Drifter, warping as needed to let your shields recover

Also, for that empty high slot: Consider a tractor beam. Very useful for collecting the wreck while you stay aligned.

Of course if you are going to dock, you can undock in a sacrificial frig, and speed tank them long enough to kill the last bit of overshield. Even if there are two drifters, you can most likely get that last bit of overshield.

Of course, all this may be moot once CCP updates the Seekers and Drifters next week.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#56 - 2015-04-23 16:06:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Dangeresque Too
I thought I had mentioned on the Rattlesnake fit that I had a perfect booster providing links? *Sorry, I had passably casually mentioned links, but not that I had my perfect boost character in a vulture with a mindlink providing the extra to bridge the gap*

Yeah, on its own it can't make the ehp requirement, but with a perfect link boost it easily tops it, with extra hp and higher resists.

Kk, played around with it a bit further based on the suggestions and wow, apparently a 4th extender rig does a lot more than the 3rd extender in the mids so good call.

[Rattlesnake, max buffer]
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Damage Control II

Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pith X-Type EM Ward Field
Large Shield Extender II
Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Core Defense Field Extender II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II

Gecko x1
Federation Navy Garde x2
Republic Fleet Berserker x2

Overheated (lasts for 2-3 minutes) with perfect links you get 1.15 million ehp, and 2400 omni dps tank. Also to keep in mind, you don't have to do a terrible amount of dmg to the overshield before it goes down, so the 70k shield at an average of 93% would be more than sufficient to hold the dps and take the DD. The only downside is the 3rd deadspace invul adds another billion to the cost. You can also buff it a touch more with the 3 or 4% shield implants for cheap.

Like you said, it will be interesting to see how CCP responds to the snake and frigate scenarios with the next pass on Drifters.

PS. Using a full Genolution implant set with both 6% shield implants you can get to 2600 dps tank and 1.25 million ehp... but again, not cost effective if only to say you beat a Drifter solo and to farm 15-20m in loot from each one.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#57 - 2015-04-23 18:46:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Ah, I missed the links part.
With links, and the modified fit, maybe cheaper invuls can be used?
Also, change out a few power diagnostics for damage modules, and the ship doubles as a L4 mission boat, so it's not just a Drifter farmer.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#58 - 2015-04-23 19:15:53 UTC
Unfortunately, even downgrading them to the relatively cheap Gistum C-types the overall ehp only hits 757k... which means you will end up in structure if everything goes 100% right. Not exactly a place you want to be.

Still wouldn't be a bad mission boat but then you also want to take into account prop mods for the darn gate driving, painter, drone assist mod, which all take very directly away from the tank.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#59 - 2015-04-23 19:50:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Dangeresque Too wrote:
After poking around at some Seekers and having their big brother Drifters come in to ruin the party earlier this evening on TQ, I got to wondering, what exactly is the point to them in Hi-Sec and is there any reason to not just ignore them?

Until such time as capitals are allowed in high-sec, none. I don't get the whole "dangerous" aspect, unless they start arbitrarily hunting down ships in high-sec - at which point I think I'd welcome gankers (at least you have a chance with CONCORD coming to your aid).

That's an interesting (albeit expensive) Rattlesnake fit to make $20-million ISK on a fairly risky proposition...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#60 - 2015-04-23 21:07:30 UTC
Dangeresque Too wrote:
rabble.


High sec .... learn how to play the game FFS.