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Bumping out of align mechanic
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Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2015-04-22 11:43:29 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
Tenchi Sal wrote:
Nah theres no real way around it other than some luck. CCP hasn't a clue how to fix it so its part of the official game play now.


I love how when there's a mechanic at play people don't like, they blame CCP's inability to fix a non-existent problem.


Until there's a valid counter to being bumped out of alignment indefinitely it's a bad mechanic, plain and simple. There's such a thing as balance. If one ship can bump another ship out of alignment for as long as they like, the victim ship needs to have some sort of mechanic to counter it. Just because the aggressor doesn't perceive it as a problem doesn't mean it isn't one Roll


No, but the fact that CCP doesn't perceive it as a problem does.

And there are counters to bumping. They have been pointed on numerous occasions, in multiple threads. The most effective one is to not put yourself in that situation in the first place by using that three pound lump of meat between your ears.

The second most effective is the reason this is called a multiplayer game.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Solecist Project
#62 - 2015-04-22 11:51:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Altrue wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
Tenchi Sal wrote:
Nah theres no real way around it other than some luck. CCP hasn't a clue how to fix it so its part of the official game play now.


I love how when there's a mechanic at play people don't like, they blame CCP's inability to fix a non-existent problem.


Well.. Its kind of an agression from one character to another character with both parties being neutral, without any CONCORD intervention. I can understand how that's an issue.

Pretty sure IRL if I randomly and willingly run into(bump) people with a bike(MWD), I'm gonna get POLICEd(CONCORDed).


Jita undock.

The funny thing is that we all also can agree on how HILARIOUS it would be .......
.... at least for the first day. ^_^

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2015-04-22 12:23:35 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:

The funny thing is that we all also can agree on how HILARIOUS it would be .......
.... at least for the first day. ^_^


I'd fraps that.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Solecist Project
#64 - 2015-04-22 12:28:26 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:

The funny thing is that we all also can agree on how HILARIOUS it would be .......
.... at least for the first day. ^_^


I'd fraps that.

While I'd yell naughty things in local about how the thorax is stuck ...
... right next to the rokh ........
......... and how they keep pushing and pushing ......


*snickers xD*

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2015-04-22 12:34:13 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Elenahina wrote:
TigerXtrm wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
Tenchi Sal wrote:
Nah theres no real way around it other than some luck. CCP hasn't a clue how to fix it so its part of the official game play now.


I love how when there's a mechanic at play people don't like, they blame CCP's inability to fix a non-existent problem.


Until there's a valid counter to being bumped out of alignment indefinitely it's a bad mechanic, plain and simple. There's such a thing as balance. If one ship can bump another ship out of alignment for as long as they like, the victim ship needs to have some sort of mechanic to counter it. Just because the aggressor doesn't perceive it as a problem doesn't mean it isn't one Roll


No, but the fact that CCP doesn't perceive it as a problem does.

And there are counters to bumping. They have been pointed on numerous occasions, in multiple threads. The most effective one is to not put yourself in that situation in the first place by using that three pound lump of meat between your ears.

The second most effective is the reason this is called a multiplayer game.


Well the ire is the fact that it is possible to directly deprive people of control of their ship without flagging up. Of course the complications are undocks. The solution is having bumping do nothing without a lock and with a lock, flagging and a bump occurs. The reality of that is....likely impossible to code.

Imagine if one could ECM people without flagging..."just being a remote ECCM friend and stop bneing bad". Preposterous.

I dislike it because it's a stupid and frankly ****** mechanic that is disproportionately difficult to stop once started by a good bumper. And I don't mean ganking, I could just bump a battleship all day to be a douche and because the battleship hasn't moved systems (hint: it CANT) I'm not harassing as it's remained within the same system.

Necessary mechanic can be argued back and forth all day, but the lack of consequences are....distasteful.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#66 - 2015-04-22 19:22:04 UTC
How about a compromise.

I have seen in fighter jets a kind of magnetic resistance system in the control stick that prevents you from pulling it fast enough to make the hydraulics to the flight controls tear the actuators off the air frame.

Considering the "fluid dynamics" there's implication of gravitational energies from the drive systems of our ships. Therefore the more "conflict" between these special drive systems trying to occupy the same space at the same time (read: bumping) the more it disrupted the field and hence the ship becomes slower.

This would mean it takes more than one bumping ship, something I'm certain the given crop of bumpers can provide, so it would not be the end of freighter bumping overall. It would be the end of using one bumper to work a freighter for an extended time if the gank squad does not have their act together. Other mechanics would not be so effected and losing speed from being bumped makes it easier to warp off.

Of course this would be classified as yet another nerf over which oceans of tears would flow. But it won't stop suicide ganking. All freighter bumping accomplishes, as I have observed, is take the gank ships away from the gate guns and away from anybody who might try to stop them.

It would certainly add some challenge. But the forums would suffer.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2015-04-22 21:00:56 UTC
Well... If peeps really believe that CCP development team is too weak to go towards "bump = damage" then there is another path.
Collisions only possible with collidable objects. TADAM!

They already visit every ship on grid to detect possible collisions. Now they only check for "ship against collidable object".

Literally few lines of code. You already cannot collide with MTUs, containers, wrecks, etc... Now ships will be in this list too.
Result: no bumping between ships at all + less work for servers.
Bonus: new level of whining on forums "THEY MAKE HIGH-SEC EVEN SAFER!" Twisted

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
P3ps1 Max
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#68 - 2015-04-22 21:07:07 UTC
I guess me and you both will be waiting for the day when bumping actual applies damage to both ships. Smaller ships obviously will take more.
Siegfried Cohenberg
Cohenberg's Ethical Hauling
Freighter Friends
#69 - 2015-04-22 21:52:41 UTC
Look if you want to avoid bumps just don't even travel in highsec using an orca or freighter. Alternatively pay your ransoms like a good boy.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#70 - 2015-04-22 21:59:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Solecist Project wrote:

In any case:

Hate the character, not the player.
The player does what he is allowed to do ...
... and that by it's own does not allow proper judgement.

Thanks!

Roleplay is never an excuse.
That's in CCP's EULA/ToS.

Now while that is directed towards deliberate grief play, the fact is that there isn't a 'real' character in almost all cases. It's a player assigning them motivations. (And also assigning them their sexuality objectifying them). So that player has to take responsibility for their actions in what they literally make their characters do.

As for the problem not being a problem....
'Not being there' is not gameplay. It's lack of game play. If the correct counter is just don't go there when there are literal unavoidable choke systems (Or outright suicide for flying orca's through low regularly like that) then there is a gameplay problem.

I have no direct issue with some kind of bumping mechanics existing, the issue is that you can bump a ship faster than it's max velocity at which point the pilot can take no action until it slows down, and that slow down is not super fast. If a ship can't get above a velocity naturally, it should take 5 seconds to drop back to it's max velocity tops.
At which point bumping is still possible, but removal of control of the ship is not, and the bumped pilot can then try and find a solution rather than just walk away since they have no control at all.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#71 - 2015-04-22 22:20:22 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Well... If peeps really believe that CCP development team is too weak to go towards "bump = damage" then there is another path.
Collisions only possible with collidable objects. TADAM!

So in a fleet fights, even Titans would pass through each other, cyno jump to be overlapped with each other and ships would just fly straight through one another?

Doesn't really seem to be consistent with the kind of immersion CCP are trying to provide.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#72 - 2015-04-22 22:22:51 UTC
Siegfried Cohenberg wrote:
Look if you want to avoid bumps just don't even travel in highsec using an orca or freighter. Alternatively pay your ransoms like a good boy.




Hi Siggi.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2015-04-22 23:58:04 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Well... If peeps really believe that CCP development team is too weak to go towards "bump = damage" then there is another path.
Collisions only possible with collidable objects. TADAM!

So in a fleet fights, even Titans would pass through each other, cyno jump to be overlapped with each other and ships would just fly straight through one another?

Doesn't really seem to be consistent with the kind of immersion CCP are trying to provide.

Well... according to recent changes to 0.0 and capitals you can simple ignore them already. No one will fly fleets of titans anyway.
And other ships.... They rarely can pass close enough to each other to visually intersect.

And if you are serious about 'immersion'.... Year ago i have lost my ship warped to planet and stuck inside Customs Office placed right into that point. Being in Caldari space i got faction NPC on my head and lost my ship being unable to warp out.
Response to my ticket was: everything is Ok, working as intended....
So this immersion.... It's not really present i guess.

PS: you really think this immersion makes sense anyway (talking about pictures on that page)?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#74 - 2015-04-23 00:04:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
March rabbit wrote:
... according to recent changes to 0.0 and capitals you can simple ignore them already. No one will fly fleets of titans anyway.
And other ships.... They rarely can pass close enough to each other to visually intersect.

There seem to be a lot of capitals dying in recent times.

In large fleet fights this is true, not because ships don't get close to one another, but because they can't just pass through each other.

Quote:
And if you are serious about 'immersion'.... Year ago i have lost my ship warped to planet and stuck inside Customs Office placed right into that point. Being in Caldari space i got faction NPC on my head and lost my ship being unable to warp out.
Response to my ticket was: everything is Ok, working as intended....
So this immersion.... It's not really present i guess.

PS: you really think this immersion makes sense anyway (talking about pictures on that page)?

CCP seem to want to be immersive, even if not all mechanics make much sense.

Making a mechanic that many people already think is not sensible, even less sensible doesn't seem like a good approach.
Kaely Tanniss
The Conference Council
The Conference
#75 - 2015-04-23 08:53:33 UTC
"Unfair"..."exploit"..."grief".. For Pete's sake if this is how you feel about it you're playing the wrong game. If you can't take the heat...get out of the kitchen. MY GOD I've never heard so many whiny men in my life. Roll

That being said, if you are not prepared to take actions to lessen or prevent such things..you have no right to complain about them. By actions I mean in game, not complaining on forums or to ccp because you don't like the way the game YOU chose to play is played. If you aren't able or prepared to protect what you have...you don't deserve to have it. Twisted

If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
Minmatar Citizen 534612187
Citizen Corp.
#76 - 2015-04-23 09:16:55 UTC
Why wouldn't a person double-click in some direction, MWD, then warp?
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#77 - 2015-04-23 09:29:37 UTC
Minmatar Citizen 534612187 wrote:
Why wouldn't a person double-click in some direction, MWD, then warp?


Because I guess, most of he time 'in some direction' there is nothing to warp to.

Now if we could warp without selecting an object into a random location...
Maybe a module that allows you to place an arbitrary temporarily bookmark, something something.
Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#78 - 2015-04-23 12:06:27 UTC
Xoceac wrote:
As an almost 24/7 incursion runner, I am always on the move between incursion spawns. With my orca and bowhead pilot I move all my stuff from one spawn to another, always being targets of ganking attempts.

I never get targeted, until yesterday. I thought it was quite funny, some joker in a machariel bumping my orca out of alignment, asking for a ransom. I tried to give myself some more time by talking to him, waiting for a buddy to come with mwd battleship to bump him, so I can warp off. (Another alt with a webber didn't really help)

I got out safe.

Anything else I can do to stop this?

- Fit a MWD should be nice
- Use the webber alt to get a faster warp

So which one is it ?

You are getting targeted all the time, or this was your first time becoming the target ?
Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#79 - 2015-04-23 12:09:53 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Altrue wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
Tenchi Sal wrote:
Nah theres no real way around it other than some luck. CCP hasn't a clue how to fix it so its part of the official game play now.


I love how when there's a mechanic at play people don't like, they blame CCP's inability to fix a non-existent problem.


Well.. Its kind of an agression from one character to another character with both parties being neutral, without any CONCORD intervention. I can understand how that's an issue.

Pretty sure IRL if I randomly and willingly run into(bump) people with a bike(MWD), I'm gonna get POLICEd(CONCORDed).


Jita undock.

The funny thing is that we all also can agree on how HILARIOUS it would be .......
.... at least for the first day. ^_^

There's no way, there would be a mechanic that wouldn't get both parties concorded.

Or, find an APing freighter, park a frig between him and the gate :p
Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#80 - 2015-04-23 12:15:08 UTC
P3ps1 Max wrote:
I guess me and you both will be waiting for the day when bumping actual applies damage to both ships. Smaller ships obviously will take more.

kek, I can just imagine... a group of freighters bump kill a freighter