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Dev blog: Ship Customization: Time to Show Some SKIN

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Theo Sotken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#201 - 2015-04-22 07:31:18 UTC
The prices are wrong. Certain players won't care but the majority will struggle to understand and justify paying for skins at these levels.
Review the prices now to save a heap of pain later.
Verskon Qaual
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#202 - 2015-04-22 07:47:10 UTC
Mister Ripley wrote:

Would you have read the article you link to, you would know it's about "selling non-vanity items for cash" not "high prices for vanity stuff".


Indeed, I didn't really care what the article was about so long as it contained part of the Greed is Good document and some of the commentary on the subject. If the reader bothered to copy the link at all, they could do more research.

As you want a relevant link to my argument, here: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/07/monocles/

CCP Hilmar's response as well http://archive.evenews24.com/2011/06/25/ccp-hilmar-global-email-shows-the-reasoning-behind-ccp-zulu-devblog/comment-page-1/

However, CCP did learn from that and this time the micro-transactions are purely cosmetic and vanity.

I've been to EvE Vagas to meet the devs. Talked with CCP Seagull about her vision of EvE's future. I'm hopeful.

The reason some of us are freaking out is because we've seen deluded expectations from the top to the bottom of CCP before and want to attempt a constructive feedback and make suggestions that is amicable to all parties.
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#203 - 2015-04-22 08:02:48 UTC
I'm finding it slightly hilarious how people slammed the avatar clothes being sold for ridiculous prices, but now many of those same people are scrambling to justify how a spaceship skin is worth the same amount or more of RL money. Arguably, at least many nullseccers and other large fleet fight players will never even see these skins, much like avatar customizations.
Gempei
Marvinovi pratele
#204 - 2015-04-22 08:19:06 UTC
Are there plans for more Sarum skins for other big Amarr ships (Archon and Avatar)? Sarum skins are beautiful. :)
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#205 - 2015-04-22 08:30:42 UTC
Kotori wrote:
Dangeresque Too wrote:
Lena Lazair wrote:
Especially when there are plenty of cheap permanent skins that will settle in the 50-150m range for "poors" to buy in-game as well, assuming people are rational and peg these to the going PLEX/AUR/$/ISK rates.
Except the going PLEX/Aur/$/ISK rates put the cheapest of the posted SKINs at 740 Aur, which is about 200m ISK, or roughly $5. Where do you see the 50m ISK ones?

As well as a significant number of SKINs going for upwards of PLEX costs, which then leaves a person with the choice, pay for 1 month of game time, or paint my ship some half obscure color most people won't notice cause they will never look that closely at my ship? Heck half of the color schemes are just a few shades different than the standard colors... This is going to be good reading once it hits TQ.

I can easily see most players looking at even just a short list of ships they fly and schemes they want that would easily equal being able to pay for an entire year's worth of game time, and that is just a short list. I really feel bad for the people that get suckered into this full out and spend 10's of thousands of Aur on SKINs.

Gaia Ma'chello wrote:
If the speculation had started 3 weeks ago, I would agree with you. But there was a big spike that started about a day or two before the blog. That indicates something happened a day or two before the blog. There were no new threads, or blogs, or updates to Sisi, to account for it. So what's left? A leak. As Sherlock Holmes would say, whenever all other possibilities have been eliminated, whatever is left must be true.
You know what happened a day or two before the blog, people realized it was about a week before the change was going live, which is prime time to do market speculation, I was planning to actually do all my speculating this afternoon when I got home (was going to spend this morning figuring out which old skins I wanted to stock up on) but then I saw the blog and it was too late. Anyone that has been following this and having our feedback ignored since the very beginning knew it was coming and the smarter ones just jumped on it a little quicker than the rest of us.


As i have stated before, I agree, this may well just be coincidence. But surely, someone from Internal Affairs or Security can do an investigation just to be on the safe side...

Ultimately, no one gets hurt if it is genuine speculation, but if it isn't, wouldn't you want to know that someone is commiting foul play?


You people are nuts!

The patch deploys on the 28th, of course there is going to be more demand from entrepreneurs closer we are to D Day. Smile

...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤

[WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Fighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#206 - 2015-04-22 08:34:14 UTC
Well, the pricing is not unexpected, however, you really need to send your marketing department back for some re-education. Using the techniques designed and implemented in the eighties, and since replaced by better and more profitable methods, is not a good sign.

Profitability of a project, is these days, evaluated on the basis of how it effects the whole profitability of the company, and the overall perception of value presented by the company.

Whilst, this is early days, and one naturally wants to maximise the early adopter income, this is reducing the perception of overall value presented by the whole EVE "package".

Whilst it would be absurd to suggest this will lead to jita riots etc. or even active dissasisfaction, it will unfortunately have negative effects on the overall value perception. This is unwise.

To maximise customer delight, is the current marketing goal in the wider market, whilst growing brand value.

This is unfortunately being forgotten here.

Sorry but 10/10 to the art and development team,
marketing however seriously needs to be re-engineered as they are currently a net negative to the CCP brand.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#207 - 2015-04-22 08:51:53 UTC
I have read through the thread and I think people are getting a bit silly about the cost. First, they can be traded in game. This makes a big difference because you have the option of not paying a cent for your skin. Second, I wasn't really interested in the single use skin model but am very tempted by the Incursus skin now that it is more expensive and exclusive. They were a joke before because they were throwaways. Now they have value.

I like that they are expensive.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#208 - 2015-04-22 08:54:58 UTC
Zappity wrote:
I have read through the thread and I think people are getting a bit silly about the cost. First, they can be traded in game. This makes a big difference because you have the option of not paying a cent for your skin. Second, I wasn't really interested in the single use skin model but am very tempted by the Incursus skin now that it is more expensive and exclusive. They were a joke before because they were throwaways. Now they have value.


Yapp.

If one doesn't see value in acquiring it through AUR, then purchase on the market for ISK - very good creative "sink" in my opinion. Smile

Opportunity for those who currently purchase PLEX, too.

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#209 - 2015-04-22 08:57:41 UTC
This all looks very very good.



For those of you saying the prices are too high; maybe they are but, this way CCP can do "SALES" and you can get them cheap every now and then!
Ix Method
Doomheim
#210 - 2015-04-22 09:12:59 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Well, the pricing is not unexpected, however, you really need to send your marketing department back for some re-education. Using the techniques designed and implemented in the eighties, and since replaced by better and more profitable methods, is not a good sign.

It's the same with their clothing merch, makes you wonder who does their market research. Marketing £100 hoodies at a significant chunk of your hardcore that can play only because they have the spare time to plex is bizarre. It's taken a backseat given how amazing some of the development has been recently but the way they price merch/microtransactions has always been a bit pants on head ********.

But at the end of the day it's their loss, can always argue both ways on the £££ but certainly in goodwill and perception. There's plenty of us that would support if stuff was priced properly but so it goes.

Travelling at the speed of love.
Tomb Ovaert
9B30FF Labs
#211 - 2015-04-22 09:16:47 UTC
i love the system! Pricing is competitive with the rest of the industry, as this is a permanent asset, and a vanity item. Bear
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#212 - 2015-04-22 09:17:06 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Spugg Galdon wrote:
This all looks very very good.



For those of you saying the prices are too high; maybe they are but, this way CCP can do "SALES" and you can get them cheap every now and then!



I imagine the pricing variations are to establish the maximum sustainable pricing people are willing to pay.
It would also establish rarity of certain models.
Reduced price Sales would disrupt this.

Marketing are painting themselves into a corner, and customer opinion will be harmed, no matter how they try to get out of it later.

Really I am quite amazed that a marketing department, whose whole reason for existence, is to improve the revenue of the company across the whole product line, whilst increasing customers desire to purchase product, could work so actively against the companies best interests.

Free to play models, rely on a replacement of disposable customers, and maximising income from them.
It is a model where customers are consumed and the empty husk is disposed of.

It is an unwise model to follow for a subscription customer base that has a limited pool of customers, and where new customers are hard to keep.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#213 - 2015-04-22 09:20:46 UTC
Zappity wrote:
I have read through the thread and I think people are getting a bit silly about the cost. First, they can be traded in game. This makes a big difference because you have the option of not paying a cent for your skin. Second, I wasn't really interested in the single use skin model but am very tempted by the Incursus skin now that it is more expensive and exclusive. They were a joke before because they were throwaways. Now they have value.

I like that they are expensive.


You would have a point if this didn't apply to avatar clothing as well. And clothes are nowhere near as expensive save for some legacy items like the monocle.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#214 - 2015-04-22 09:27:28 UTC
Hey what about giving PRIMAE owners a noctis skin?

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Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#215 - 2015-04-22 09:27:30 UTC
It does seem that the pricing system lacks scaling with ship size/cost.

As far as my Aeon or Revelation go (I love that blue Rev, gimme!), dropping a couple of bil to skin up my Aeon, which already costs in the region of 28-30 bil is a fair cost. Likewise, an extra bil for that sexy blue skin on the Rev (do people get the impression I looove that blue skin), on a 2.5-3bil ship is about fair. But to have to drop the same level of money to skin up a Rifter or Thrasher feels really painfully overpricing.

Part of it comes in to a ships regularity of use/loss, I can imagine that pilots of smaller ships are going to want multiple skins, whereas cap pilots are going to buy one and call it a day (If I'm going to lose a dozen rifters over the weekend, switching back and forth between 3-4 skins is likely to be desirable).

Generally, I would say the current price is right for capital ships, but that frigate skins in particular should be an order of magnitude less, with battleships/battlecruisers splitting the difference, and when T2 ship skins surface, they again can be on the high-side. There should definitely be some outliers to this for "prestige" skins (like say the Police Comet, and other iconic or just plain cool ones) so people who want to posture and preen in high-value skins can do so, while people who just want to add a bit of variety to tooling around in cheap ships dont get robbed for doing so.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#216 - 2015-04-22 09:31:25 UTC
Hey guys... quick tip: if you plan to buy SKINs with AUR, it may be a good idea to buy the 4500 AUR/20 $ package now, as it's going to be removed and the AUR-per-buck will be quite lower with the new AUR packages

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#217 - 2015-04-22 09:48:02 UTC
Ned Thomas wrote:
Verskon Qaual wrote:
variable pricing based on desirability


Just wanted to point out: this is not something to criticize. This is something that should be expected.

Not that I'm completely on board with the price structure here, mind you, but this isn't one of the problems.

well some people would wonder about why different skins for the same ship would be priced so differently, and so high

i'd encourage these people to think about these skins as if they were clothing

Quote:
Look at the clothes you are currently wearing in real life. Do you have any specific brands? Did you choose it because it was better quality than a no-name brand? Assume for a short while that you are wearing a pair of $1,000 jeans from some exclusive Japanese boutique shop. Why would you want to wear a pair of $1,000 jeans when you can get perfectly similar jeans for under $50? What do other people think about you when they see you wearing them? For some you will look like the sad culmination of vainness while others will admire you and think you are the coolest thing since sliced bread. Whichever it is, it is clear that by wearing clothes you are expressing yourself and that the price is one of the many dimensions that clothes possess to do that in addition to style and fit. You don't need to buy expensive clothes. In fact you don't need to buy any clothes. Whatever you choose to do reflects what you are and what you want others to think you are.


it's obviously perfectly fine that a particular recolour'd cost more than another recolour because the higher price adds to the prestige of owning the skin

i think ccp should be applauded for this fearless approach to cosmetics pricing
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#218 - 2015-04-22 09:51:43 UTC
I liked it more when the skin system was going to be a thing that could be attached to ships to allow custom fleet skins.

The new ship skin system that was put in last year means that new textures aren't even being made, pallets are being put on maps.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#219 - 2015-04-22 10:04:29 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Ned Thomas wrote:
Verskon Qaual wrote:
variable pricing based on desirability


Just wanted to point out: this is not something to criticize. This is something that should be expected.

Not that I'm completely on board with the price structure here, mind you, but this isn't one of the problems.

well some people would wonder about why different skins for the same ship would be priced so differently, and so high

i'd encourage these people to think about these skins as if they were clothing

Quote:
Look at the clothes you are currently wearing in real life. Do you have any specific brands? Did you choose it because it was better quality than a no-name brand? Assume for a short while that you are wearing a pair of $1,000 jeans from some exclusive Japanese boutique shop. Why would you want to wear a pair of $1,000 jeans when you can get perfectly similar jeans for under $50? What do other people think about you when they see you wearing them? For some you will look like the sad culmination of vainness while others will admire you and think you are the coolest thing since sliced bread. Whichever it is, it is clear that by wearing clothes you are expressing yourself and that the price is one of the many dimensions that clothes possess to do that in addition to style and fit. You don't need to buy expensive clothes. In fact you don't need to buy any clothes. Whatever you choose to do reflects what you are and what you want others to think you are.


it's obviously perfectly fine that a particular recolour'd cost more than another recolour because the higher price adds to the prestige of owning the skin

i think ccp should be applauded for this fearless approach to cosmetics pricing


One can be fearless by jumping into a wood chipper, it does not automatically make it a wise choice.

Of course your argument holds meaning in the luxury market, but wrapping a ford car in gold paint does not make it a luxury item, no matter how pretty. It is still a consumer automobile.

There is an opportunity here for low priced cosmetic items, something where everyone has many. As it stands, it is offering false vanity, to a few, at high price. The income will be minimal, and the cost to the brand significant.

Not exactly the goal of a marketing department.

However, we will see, one of us will be right.
And If it is me, I will be deeply sad, as it will be a golden opportunity lost at harm to the game I love.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
#220 - 2015-04-22 10:07:33 UTC
Prices might seem quite high at first, but you have to consider, that these new SKINs are indestructible now. You only have to purchase them once. And in addition to that, you can buy them with ISK from the market, which costs you no real life money at all.
(...and it's not like i have bought 1 or 2 skinned ships in advance Twisted)

PS:
How long do i have to wait, till i get my Black Astero or Black Stratios? Please, CCP, make it happen!Cry

Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<