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[Proposal] Make Blockade Runners Immune to Customs Scans

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Jaycen Kado
Sideways Logistics
#1 - 2015-04-21 16:22:46 UTC
I have been researching way's in which people can move illegal good and contraband through empire space. The conclusion I have come to is that it's very hard and not really worth it.

I think that smuggling would be an awesome activity to have in the game.

I was very disappointed to read that even a cloaked blockade runner is not immune to the possibility of being scanned and destroyed/fined for transporting these goods even though this class of ship is immune to cargo scanners.

This principle seems to go against the way many other things are handled in Eve.

Why is a player unable to scan such a cargo hold by any means - while specific NPC's have access to this capability.

What are the negatives to allowing Blockade Runners to be smuggling ships? In my opinion it doesn't change anything about the risk/reward/profit dynamics that traders and haulers live by, and on the contrary creates a fun money making opportunity for Hi-Sec Traders via a simple change.

I really want some discussion or reasoning as to why the current situation should not be changed OR a push to get this changed.

Thanks for reading this :)
Sylphy
TSOE Po1ice
TSOE Consortium
#2 - 2015-04-22 07:02:01 UTC
How about an alternative? The empires release agents into the stream who monitor the sales of illegal stuff and mark pilots down for inspection.

So then one time, you are scrammed and webbed and boarded to search your cargo holds for illegal stuff :P And they take your ship, your cargo and fine you. I'm sure nobody would like that. Everybody just looks to their own benefit.

The character does not represent the views/opinions of its Corporation or Alliance.
Cade Windstalker
#3 - 2015-04-22 14:50:12 UTC
That's because that would completely remove the risk, and thus the isk-sink, from transporting illegal goods in High Sec space. The solution to doing so simply becomes "use a blockage runner" which completely removes the risk/reward associated with the system.

Completely removing risk from a system is very much not in keeping with Eve.
Jaycen Kado
Sideways Logistics
#4 - 2015-04-22 15:04:04 UTC
But there are plenty of other ways to make ISK risk-free in EVE. There's no risk for the in-station trading or creation of these goods I don't see how its any different in terms of dynamics by moving goods in a freighter, you're already sacrificing volume by HAVING to use a blockade runner.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#5 - 2015-04-22 19:00:15 UTC
It's about time they got rid of NPC customs agents and replaced them with player tools, like they said they wanted to do years ago.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Jaycen Kado
Sideways Logistics
#6 - 2015-04-23 10:15:04 UTC
admiral root wrote:
It's about time they got rid of NPC customs agents and replaced them with player tools, like they said they wanted to do years ago.


Sure, I hope we can at least start with Blockade Runners and see how it goes.
Cade Windstalker
#7 - 2015-04-23 22:58:49 UTC
Jaycen Kado wrote:
But there are plenty of other ways to make ISK risk-free in EVE. There's no risk for the in-station trading or creation of these goods I don't see how its any different in terms of dynamics by moving goods in a freighter, you're already sacrificing volume by HAVING to use a blockade runner.


The risk in station trading is that you make a bad market deal or get out market-PvP'd by someone and lose a massive amount of money. Go ask someone who plays the markets for a living how much you can lose if someone pulls a big market out from under you. It's more than a large null fight in some cases.

Besides, to make large amounts of ISK at Station Trading you need lots of capital, or you need to undock and move goods around at which point you are at risk.

As for "sacrificing volume" you could fit the entire game-wide demand for Improved Blue Pill for a *week* into a single Blockade Runner without using a single Expanded Cargo Hold. Far more than any single player account could produce, at the least.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#8 - 2015-04-23 23:02:52 UTC
Thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#9 - 2015-04-23 23:11:38 UTC
admiral root wrote:
It's about time they got rid of NPC customs agents and replaced them with player tools, like they said they wanted to do years ago.



^^^^^^^

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2015-04-23 23:40:25 UTC
Jaycen Kado wrote:
admiral root wrote:
It's about time they got rid of NPC customs agents and replaced them with player tools, like they said they wanted to do years ago.


Sure, I hope we can at least start with Blockade Runners and see how it goes.


So how are we going to scan an unscannable ship you cant ever lock before it cloaks up and warps off at the speed of an interceptor?
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#11 - 2015-04-24 01:20:48 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Jaycen Kado wrote:
admiral root wrote:
It's about time they got rid of NPC customs agents and replaced them with player tools, like they said they wanted to do years ago.


Sure, I hope we can at least start with Blockade Runners and see how it goes.


So how are we going to scan an unscannable ship you cant ever lock before it cloaks up and warps off at the speed of an interceptor?


Deal with it? Big smile

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Cade Windstalker
#12 - 2015-04-24 03:21:54 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Deal with it? Big smile


Pretty sure that's what poking holes in ideas on the forums is Blink
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#13 - 2015-04-24 06:08:57 UTC
admiral root wrote:
It's about time they got rid of NPC customs agents and replaced them with player tools, like they said they wanted to do years ago.

Sure thing, because players can be bothered to sit on all the gates and scan every ship for passing by illegal goods. That's certainly going to be such a great success. How high has the ISK/hour probably to be to make them do it? 10M? 20M? This kind of player driven stuff is something for Null sec, not High sec.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#14 - 2015-04-24 18:10:00 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
admiral root wrote:
It's about time they got rid of NPC customs agents and replaced them with player tools, like they said they wanted to do years ago.

Sure thing, because players can be bothered to sit on all the gates and scan every ship for passing by illegal goods. That's certainly going to be such a great success. How high has the ISK/hour probably to be to make them do it? 10M? 20M? This kind of player driven stuff is something for Null sec, not High sec.


It'll give the white knights something to do.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#15 - 2015-04-24 18:50:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
admiral root wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
admiral root wrote:
It's about time they got rid of NPC customs agents and replaced them with player tools, like they said they wanted to do years ago.

Sure thing, because players can be bothered to sit on all the gates and scan every ship for passing by illegal goods. That's certainly going to be such a great success. How high has the ISK/hour probably to be to make them do it? 10M? 20M? This kind of player driven stuff is something for Null sec, not High sec.


It'll give the white knights something to do.

Sure, because WKs can be everywhere. Not even ganker scanners are everywhere, as I can go around every scanner on the main routes with ease. I trust you realize yourself how impractical this suggestion is.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#16 - 2015-04-26 22:06:50 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Sure, because WKs can be everywhere. Not even ganker scanners are everywhere, as I can go around every scanner on the main routes with ease. I trust you realize yourself how impractical this suggestion is.


Seriously, no trolling, I don't get what the issue is. I do, however, trust that the dev who publicly said he wanted this to happen had considered the practical implications (and talked to other devs about it) prior to making his post.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Cade Windstalker
#17 - 2015-04-26 22:36:30 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Sure, because WKs can be everywhere. Not even ganker scanners are everywhere, as I can go around every scanner on the main routes with ease. I trust you realize yourself how impractical this suggestion is.


Seriously, no trolling, I don't get what the issue is. I do, however, trust that the dev who publicly said he wanted this to happen had considered the practical implications (and talked to other devs about it) prior to making his post.


Alternatively, he was expressing his personal views and that may or may not be what eventually happens. Since CCP haven't implemented anything or even formally stated they want to implement anything I'd say that dev was speaking either personally or speculatively. At the least it's certain that CCP don't have an implementation for this sort of gameplay yet.

On an unrelated note, if I had a PLEX for every time someone at CCP has expressed a grand vision for the game that hasn't happened or even has had something completely different happen I'd be able to buy a Titan just from the 2009 Fanfest keynote. Don't get me wrong, I love it when CCP does this, but it's best to take anything said with the words "I'd like" or "it would be cool if" with a small Siberian salt mine.

The big issues, as I personally see them, with removing NPC customs agents are this:


  • Removes a potentially major ISK sink from the game in the form of NPC customs fines.
  • Majorly changes the risk/reward proposition involving in hauling such goods, especially at off hours times when fewer players are online.
  • The current scanning mechanics are clunky and don't scale well. The obvious place to setup a player-run checkpoint is a major traffic route, but that's also the place it's hardest to scan the most people.
  • It's unlikely a profession like this would be profitable enough to incentivize players to actually do it without an external ISK faucet or reward outside of the dropped cargo of a target and any fines the player might collect. The alternative to this seems to be to make hauling this sort of cargo prohibitively risky, meaning getting caught once is crushingly damaging to your wallet.


There are potential solutions to all of these problems, but all of them also involve either some sort of ISK faucet or just shifting around the NPC presence instead of removing it completely. The exception to this seems to be if the end goal is to basically hit the current state market for illegal goods with a Doomsday weapon and take bets on where the rubble lands, and CCP tends to avoid that with systems that are healthy and used.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#18 - 2015-04-27 00:10:16 UTC
If things happen in Empire space, NPC's SHOULD BE INVOLVED. Can't say this enough. We need far more NPC life in high sec, not less. It needs to be natural of course, not spawning only in response to us (i.e. concord). But attacking it should be considered the same as attacking another player.

We should see the Empires capsuleers mining high sec belts, haulers actually moving real goods around, real navy patrols (not the 'camp at every gate' current approach), Gates should have a 'monitoring station' which can lock & engage, as well as call in tackle frigs if you dally too long.
Trade hubs should have NPC freighters coming in & out.

Then Empire space will actually feel like EMPIRE SPACE.

However, smuggling should become a practical thing. Meaning you have to dodge the scans.
If that's a fast warping cloaky, then it can be a fast warping cloaky that gets off grid before anyone can lock it.
The Monitoring stations should lock and scan like this, but be fairly slow about it, the customs patrols should be insti lock groups, making them much harder to warp off from, but your scout can warn you if there is a roaming patrol randomly at your gate atm (& they should roam, not just be a downtime spawn gatecamp). And players should also be able to 'report' illegal cargoes while using a cargo scanner as well (Note, AS WELL, not the only method).