These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

EvE Online II - Enough already

First post
Author
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#121 - 2015-04-21 23:02:53 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Graphics are a huge thing in gaming and no company is going to release 2003 quality graphics in 2015 as a maximum specification.


CCP has already learned their lesson about that with the Captains Quarters.

Why are you asking them to repeat a guaranteed failure?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#122 - 2015-04-21 23:25:37 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Graphics are a huge thing in gaming and no company is going to release 2003 quality graphics in 2015 as a maximum specification.


CCP has already learned their lesson about that with the Captains Quarters.

Why are you asking them to repeat a guaranteed failure?

Link

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#123 - 2015-04-21 23:44:50 UTC
Why wouldn't I warp to station? In current Eve, I select the station and autopilot to it.

Your example also removes autopilot. Is that your intention?

And are you happy with removing the scanning mini-profession from the game, now that you can't cargo scan a ship except for when it undocks, or lands in its destination system?

I think it'd be best if you develop a new example for interdiction. This one makes travel far too safe.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#124 - 2015-04-22 00:34:13 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Graphics are a huge thing in gaming and no company is going to release 2003 quality graphics in 2015 as a maximum specification.


CCP has already learned their lesson about that with the Captains Quarters.

Why are you asking them to repeat a guaranteed failure?

Link


That means absolutely nothing. CCP's proven track record of failing to innovate on their own, however, has a very real meaning.

And it's implications are the death of the game.

So I ask again, why do you want CCP to repeat a guaranteed failure?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

MidnightWyvern
Fukamichi Corporation
SAYR Galactic
#125 - 2015-04-22 01:08:04 UTC  |  Edited by: MidnightWyvern
Mehrune Khan wrote:
Jump gates don't add depth to gameplay. Either you are sitting at a gate for hours waiting for someone to come through, bored out of your mind, or you're the unlucky guy that jumps through and gets blown up. If that's your thing then to each their own I guess, but dumbed down? I'm sorry but hunting down another player with a frameshift wake scanner in a galaxy with 400 billion stars takes more intelligence and skill than gate camping hands down. No contest.

I never saw the reason for adding artificial choke points in a game that's supposed to emulate FTL travel. All our ships have warp drives, but we can't fly out of a star system on our own power? Doesn't this seem absurd to anyone else?

No, because the speeds the ships warp at would make getting between systems take an eternity.

I'm starting to be reminded why I used to avoid these Forums.

The Elite: Dangerous example doesn't illustrate anything other than a difference in how warping is handled. While you can reduce the amount of "zone switching" needed to traverse the game via upgrading your Frameshift Drive, you are still zone switching exactly the same way you do in EVE.

Also, I can say from experience that it is extremely simple to hang out at a Star in my Viper, wait for someone to jump into the system, and have them dropped out of supercruise within seconds.

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)

Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#126 - 2015-04-22 01:30:21 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
This sounds like simple whinging because you're too poor or tight to upgrade your stupidly slow computers.
And this is a strawman, because you're losing the argument.

Now please leave already.

Hardly straw man. The idea that a games developer should hold off developing a new version of its flagship game because some of its current subscribers run turds for PCs is ludicrous.

There are literally millions of former EvE players that would likely resub just to try out a new EvE, hundreds of millions of potential new customers with decent rigs who may and a few hundred thousand current subs with only a % with crap pcs.

I know who I'd be developing for. Hint - not you poor unemployed people :)


Do not attempt logic.

Logic does not work against the idiot.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#127 - 2015-04-22 01:33:46 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Leto Aramaus wrote:

It really, really saddens me. Since I first subbed to EVE, I've always been hoping it would evolve past "Spheres in Space", but you people literally want it to stay the same... so, SO sad.


Cry more about how there's an MMO out there that's actually accessible for older hardware. If you want a flight sim, go play a goddamned flight sim. Stop asking to have what I like taken away from me because you can't figure out that you're playing the wrong game.


Dude, I'm sorry you play on 1998 hardware, but most of us don't.

Frankly, most of us are tired of you peasants holding us back.

Now **** off.

Seriously, **** off with your pathetically inept posts.
Iyacia Cyric'ai
Lai Dai Counterintelligence
#128 - 2015-04-22 02:08:29 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Yep so Asherons Call 2, Everquest 2, Final Fantasy II - XV, Guild Wars 2, The Legend of Mir 2, Ragnorok 2,.... etc were all really dumb ideas. They should have stayed with the originals. Likewise we should all still be using Windows 6.1 and riding horses to work because progress is dumb.
Isn't World of Warcraft doing better than all of those games?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#129 - 2015-04-22 02:15:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
MidnightWyvern wrote:
Mehrune Khan wrote:
Jump gates don't add depth to gameplay. Either you are sitting at a gate for hours waiting for someone to come through, bored out of your mind, or you're the unlucky guy that jumps through and gets blown up. If that's your thing then to each their own I guess, but dumbed down? I'm sorry but hunting down another player with a frameshift wake scanner in a galaxy with 400 billion stars takes more intelligence and skill than gate camping hands down. No contest.

I never saw the reason for adding artificial choke points in a game that's supposed to emulate FTL travel. All our ships have warp drives, but we can't fly out of a star system on our own power? Doesn't this seem absurd to anyone else?

No, because the speeds the ships warp at would make getting between systems take an eternity.

I'm starting to be reminded why I used to avoid these Forums.

The Elite: Dangerous example doesn't illustrate anything other than a difference in how warping is handled. While you can reduce the amount of "zone switching" needed to traverse the game via upgrading your Frameshift Drive, you are still zone switching exactly the same way you do in EVE.

Also, I can say from experience that it is extremely simple to hang out at a Star in my Viper, wait for someone to jump into the system, and have them dropped out of supercruise within seconds.

The question was why choke points? The answer is pretty simple. The mechanics in EvE are terrible.

In most games zones are arenas. In most games players enter the arena and undertake an activity be it mining, npcing, missioning or trading. To leave the arena they need to travel back to the exit. During any of these activities they usually can be engaged in PvP.

In EvE you have similar areas for player activity however in EvE you're instantly alerted that an enemy has entered the arena. You can immediately warp (making you invulnerable) denying the other player the chance to PvP you.

Hence the popularity and realistically only reliable method of engaging a player in non-consensual PvP the gate camp.

If there was a requirement for players to be able to be interdicted in warp there would be no reason for chokes.

I guess a good analogy would be in an fps. Whenever you found an opponent they could speed hack to safety making killing them a frustrating game of cat and mouse. That's EvE.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#130 - 2015-04-22 02:21:45 UTC
There are these things called Mobile Warp Disruptors.

Amazingly, they allow you to interdict people that are in warp.
Iyacia Cyric'ai
Lai Dai Counterintelligence
#131 - 2015-04-22 02:26:49 UTC
Mehrune Khan wrote:
Jump gates don't add depth to gameplay.
I don't know what game you're playing but it's not Eve.
Iyacia Cyric'ai
Lai Dai Counterintelligence
#132 - 2015-04-22 02:31:26 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
MidnightWyvern wrote:
Mehrune Khan wrote:
Jump gates don't add depth to gameplay. Either you are sitting at a gate for hours waiting for someone to come through, bored out of your mind, or you're the unlucky guy that jumps through and gets blown up. If that's your thing then to each their own I guess, but dumbed down? I'm sorry but hunting down another player with a frameshift wake scanner in a galaxy with 400 billion stars takes more intelligence and skill than gate camping hands down. No contest.

I never saw the reason for adding artificial choke points in a game that's supposed to emulate FTL travel. All our ships have warp drives, but we can't fly out of a star system on our own power? Doesn't this seem absurd to anyone else?

No, because the speeds the ships warp at would make getting between systems take an eternity.

I'm starting to be reminded why I used to avoid these Forums.

The Elite: Dangerous example doesn't illustrate anything other than a difference in how warping is handled. While you can reduce the amount of "zone switching" needed to traverse the game via upgrading your Frameshift Drive, you are still zone switching exactly the same way you do in EVE.

Also, I can say from experience that it is extremely simple to hang out at a Star in my Viper, wait for someone to jump into the system, and have them dropped out of supercruise within seconds.

The question was why choke points? The answer is pretty simple. The mechanics in EvE are terrible.

In most games zones are arenas. In most games players enter the arena and undertake an activity be it mining, npcing, missioning or trading. To leave the arena they need to travel back to the exit. During any of these activities they usually can be engaged in PvP.

In EvE you have similar areas for player activity however in EvE you're instantly alerted that an enemy has entered the arena. You can immediately warp (making you invulnerable) denying the other player the chance to PvP you.

Hence the popularity and realistically only reliable method of engaging a player in non-consensual PvP the gate camp.

If there was a requirement for players to be able to be interdicted in warp there would be no reason for chokes.

I guess a good analogy would be in an fps. Whenever you found an opponent they could speed hack to safety making killing them a frustrating game of cat and mouse. That's EvE.
Believe it or not, removing local does not require Eve Online II.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#133 - 2015-04-22 03:01:47 UTC
Phaade wrote:

Dude, I'm sorry you play on 1998 hardware, but most of us don't.

Frankly, most of us are tired of you peasants holding us back.

Now **** off.

Seriously, **** off with your pathetically inept posts.


So hostile, lol. If your hardware is chafing at the bit to go out for a run, why not go play something to put it through it's paces?

I mean, seriously, why agitate to turn this game into something that it's not? People like it the way it is, and if you don't, the problem doesn't lie with us.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#134 - 2015-04-22 03:21:18 UTC
CCP's main incentive for keeping the minimum requirements is the financial benefit of people who multibox.

Right now I have one client open on Anhenka with all my chat channels, another client open with a highsec freighter alt moving a freighter back to Jita, another in autopilot to go pick some stuff up in highsec, and am actively burning a cyno alt to a location for my JF.

If you increased the requirements enough that it took a fairly new computer to run a client even on low settings, my laptop would explode if I tried to run 4 clients at once. And then I would unsub probably two of them. And there goes cash that otherwise would have flown into CCP's coffers..
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#135 - 2015-04-22 05:11:59 UTC
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
Believe it or not, removing local does not require Eve Online II.

Don't be so sure about that. Remove local and watch the exodus begin.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2015-04-22 06:25:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Corraidhin Farsaidh
Phaade wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Leto Aramaus wrote:

It really, really saddens me. Since I first subbed to EVE, I've always been hoping it would evolve past "Spheres in Space", but you people literally want it to stay the same... so, SO sad.


Cry more about how there's an MMO out there that's actually accessible for older hardware. If you want a flight sim, go play a goddamned flight sim. Stop asking to have what I like taken away from me because you can't figure out that you're playing the wrong game.


Dude, I'm sorry you play on 1998 hardware, but most of us don't.

Frankly, most of us are tired of you peasants holding us back.

Now **** off.

Seriously, **** off with your pathetically inept posts.


This makes we chuckle, I play EvE on my work laptop that has spec that would make most gamers cry yet it isn't worth the twin crossfire graphics cards running at full tilt because I spend most of my time in the scan probe window hunting sites. Guess how much I care about the graphics being on par with the latest Call of Grand Theft Battlefied?

Which brings in another point. EvE isn't about first person quality graphics, it's just a nice to have as you are rarely zoomed in enough for it to matter. Gameplay changes can and do come through in the regular updates and that is how it should be. As previously mentioned just because CCP don't number releases doesn't mean that they don't introduce major gameplay changes. They just don't go through the insanity of big bang releases. No company with any realistically sized piece of software does unless they have absolutely no choice.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#137 - 2015-04-22 06:48:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
Believe it or not, removing local does not require Eve Online II.

Don't be so sure about that. Remove local and watch the exodus begin.



How so.


Local is by and large useless for empire. 50 people in local, you are 1 of them, rest are grey. So 49 players are ignored anyway. Or yellow (I tend to ignore them). Or flagged but again...I ignore that too. Empire I have always been low key. I got my fights out of empire I go on the dl in empire to get my isk and call it a day. Someone was a bad boy but not to me...not my problem. Killing that bad boy, then getting the attention of his 20 fiends after....is my problem lol.

Low sec is not the most jumping spot in the game as is now. And this would benefit carebears to change that I predict. I have a hard to probe tengu setup to be the ghost in the machine. That setup tbh is ruined by local. 6 man local, 5 are blue in pirate corp, I am not and nice and grey to them. They will after running the scrub prober come to the conclusion they need to up the probing game a bit.

Put another way...local announces me in low sec, if pirates want me bad enough knowing I am there....they will find me. I don't see every low grade scrub pirate crew having a virtued, sisters gear fit, max skilled prober on every roam launched that night if local removed. Their scrub can't find me in 2 passes they will hit next system. Or find easier targets if in my system.

0.0 with several adjustments is less concerned about the hot drop from out of nowhere. PL want to dynamite fish halfway across the map....well its gonna take a few days to do that lol. that final hot drop pegged the fatigue.. you have a captive cap audience. Wait them out and it may get some revenge kills.

That and if the bitters leave 0.0...it could be a very good thing. If say goons rage quits en masse if local meant that much to them we'd have a power vacuum. It actually make 0.0 interesting for a change as people fight to fill that void. And the game would be goon (as we know it) free. Win win really.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#138 - 2015-04-22 08:28:09 UTC
Phaade wrote:
Do not attempt logic.

Logic does not work against the idiot.
Calm down, this is a no logic thread. That's why you were invited. Big smile

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Zepheros Naeonis
TinklePee
#139 - 2015-04-23 06:26:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Zepheros Naeonis
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Hardly straw man. The idea that a games developer should hold off developing a new version of its flagship game because some of its current subscribers run turds for PCs is ludicrous.

There are literally millions of former EvE players that would likely resub just to try out a new EvE, hundreds of millions of potential new customers with decent rigs who may and a few hundred thousand current subs with only a % with crap pcs.

I know who I'd be developing for. Hint - not you poor unemployed people :)

The simple fact you would even exaggerate "hundreds of millions" is undeniable proof you have no idea what you're talking about. You're not opening anyone's eyes into believing there are groves of players waiting to jump in EVE for a new "experience" they probably wouldn't be able to run. We don't need a "Crysis" version of EVE that only those with dedicated video cards could run. Praise the Lord you're not clever enough to get onto CSM and project your ridiculous ideas, otherwise EVE might "actually" be in trouble for a few weeks until you were kicked out.

Mehrune Khan wrote:
Jump gates don't add depth to gameplay. Either you are sitting at a gate for hours waiting for someone to come through, bored out of your mind, or you're the unlucky guy that jumps through and gets blown up. If that's your thing then to each their own I guess, but dumbed down? I'm sorry but hunting down another player with a frameshift wake scanner in a galaxy with 400 billion stars takes more intelligence and skill than gate camping hands down. No contest.

I never saw the reason for adding artificial choke points in a game that's supposed to emulate FTL travel. All our ships have warp drives, but we can't fly out of a star system on our own power? Doesn't this seem absurd to anyone else?

Well, if you used that noggin of yours to really think about it, then you would immediately conclude that the jump gates serve as a hardware limited solution. CCP can not remove them without drastically changing the mechanics in ways that isn't feasible. I don't know how many times this needs to be said. The technology to truly have a single cluster with no loading zones can not and will not happen anytime soon. Also, +1 to what Anhenka said in response to you. All obvious reasons when you take your raging blindfold off.

Infinity Ziona wrote:
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
Believe it or not, removing local does not require Eve Online II.

Don't be so sure about that. Remove local and watch the exodus begin.

They are already tinkering with the idea of delaying local in null sec. What a glorious day it will be when it happens. If you think it will cause an "exodus" in anyway, shape or form, you really don't understand the players of EVE at all. Makes me wonder why you even pretend to be one of them. (it should be f'n apparent by the lack of support you've received in this topic)
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#140 - 2015-04-23 06:29:18 UTC
Quote:

Forum rules

23. Post constructively.

Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.

27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.


As the thread has gotten very off topic, I'm closing it down.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department