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RLML and DPS
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Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2015-04-19 23:26:42 UTC
I don't think you've ever met a HAM legion or sacrilege then.

Art of Explosions
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-04-19 23:37:45 UTC
Last time you successfully kited a gang with fast ships in a ham legion or a sacrilege?
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#23 - 2015-04-20 05:08:56 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Last time you successfully kited a gang with fast ships in a ham legion or a sacrilege?


You claim medium size missiles suck, someone gives you two very strong medium missile ships and you change the goal posts. People give you reasonable and practice uses for RLML and you complain because they have a drawback. We get it, you want an 'I Win' missile systems that has the DPS of HAMs, range of heavies and application of lights. If you're not willing to work within the limits of a certain system either stop doing it or expect failure.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#24 - 2015-04-20 05:17:37 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Last time you successfully kited a gang with fast ships in a ham legion or a sacrilege?



The last time I fitted a 100mn afterburner and hit the overheat button... Roll

Dude, you are just bad at pvp, that is all. Someone could have saved me a lot of reading.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2015-04-20 12:36:11 UTC
Yeah, im totally bad at pvp and you kited a gang in a ship with no range bonus with hams at a 30km paper range... .

Also, for kiting all missiles bar rlmls suck on cruiser size, and hams are exactly great even though they do have a niche.
Valkin Mordirc
#26 - 2015-04-20 13:15:11 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Yeah, im totally bad at pvp and you kited a gang in a ship with no range bonus with hams at a 30km paper range... .

Also, for kiting all missiles bar rlmls suck on cruiser size, and hams are exactly great even though they do have a niche.


Um... Orthrus?
#DeleteTheWeak
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2015-04-20 13:16:18 UTC
What? You want to tell me the hml or ham orthrus is better then the rlml one? Or what is your point?
Valkin Mordirc
#28 - 2015-04-20 13:20:54 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
What? You want to tell me the hml or ham orthrus is better then the rlml one? Or what is your point?



You said that kiting sized cruiser can't do well without RLML


The Orthrus/Tengu say no, **** you.


You know instead of treating this like a argument why don't you just LISTEN, and you would actually hear that there are cruiser size ships that do well with HAM's and HML's.


And no I'm not saying better. I'm saying that the orthrus does well with all three weapons systems. 
#DeleteTheWeak
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2015-04-20 13:23:16 UTC
Not really, theres a reason tengus are dying out and any non rlml orthrus is considered a faitfit.
Valkin Mordirc
#30 - 2015-04-20 13:28:26 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Not really, theres a reason tengus are dying out and any non rlml orthrus is considered a faitfit.



If Tengu's have any reason for dying out it's because of the Hybrid nerf and the defensive subsystem nerf. I havn't been in one in a little while, but long enough to know that a HAM 100mn Tengu or the HML Tengu does perfectly well. Now, I dunno about now. Haven't bothered to fly on since the nerf.


As for the Orthrus. A good solo ship yeah, probably going to be RLML fitted. However, you can still get a good fit with both HML and HAM's. You can easily kite with a HAM Orthrus with a defensive scram. And it's so quick that it can easily hold a target inside point range and plink at it with HLM's.


HAM's are niche your right. But they are just as niched as the RLML.
#DeleteTheWeak
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2015-04-20 14:05:48 UTC
Almost all medium sized missile ships that are viable and see use are rlml fit. Theres like 5 ham ships of which 2 see almost no use and 2 need links/implants to work. Compared to like 8+ rlml ships which are all more or less (caracal navy) viable.
Valkin Mordirc
#32 - 2015-04-20 14:15:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Almost all medium sized missile ships that are viable and see use are rlml fit. Theres like 5 ham ships of which 2 see almost no use and 2 need links/implants to work. Compared to like 8+ rlml ships which are all more or less (caracal navy) viable.



Mhm, You are right. At least about the most missile ships being RLML fitted.

The GIla, doesn't need links, the Orthrus doesn't need links. If those are the two you are mentioning. I would guess most people run links with those two ships because they're most expensive then RLML Cara therefor they want to minmax the ship so it has a lesser chance of become tinier space pixels.

However all those RLML ships are going to be fighting very specific fights.


RLML are Niche.


Just like HAMs and HLMs.
#DeleteTheWeak
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2015-04-20 14:54:54 UTC
I mean 100mn tengu and legion by the ones that need links/implants. And the niche of ham ships is armor tanked brawling in big gangs, the "niche" of rlml ships is everything else.
Valkin Mordirc
#34 - 2015-04-20 15:15:20 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
I mean 100mn tengu and legion by the ones that need links/implants. And the niche of ham ships is armor tanked brawling in big gangs, the "niche" of rlml ships is everything else.



RLML are going to have a tell of a time trying to kill anything active tanked or with logi, with the exception to the Gila.


RLML are good at killing, AF's Dessies and T1 Frigs and some T1 cruiser.


300 to 500 burst dps is not going to cut for some who tanks locally or has logi.

You know what really funny about this conversation though? You're saying RLML are pretty good. But when they were nerfed, everyone flipped **** about it. XD I dunno if you see the humor in it, but it's kinda hilarious.
#DeleteTheWeak
Leokokim
Mining Industry Exile Foundation
Synergy of Steel
#35 - 2015-04-22 21:25:00 UTC
Yeah, they got nerfed.

But they didn't get nerfed enough to be as **** as HAMs (except on maybe fleet cerb) or HMs (lol)
Solomar Espersei
Quality Assurance
#36 - 2015-04-23 15:11:28 UTC
LOLing at the Wolf sucks at PVP comment, good to see one of Failheap's finest bringing some content to this forum.

Quality Assurance Recruiting intrepid explorers and BlOps/Cov Ops combat enthusiasts
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#37 - 2015-04-23 23:19:14 UTC
Solomar Espersei wrote:
LOLing at the Wolf sucks at PVP comment, good to see one of Failheap's finest bringing some content to this forum.


Are you trying to make a claim that WOlf is a pvp god or something. Cuz all I see is a 3 loss champion of nothing, unless you know his main or something.

Regardless, his comments appear to be very much so that of someone who cannot pvp well.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Valkin Mordirc
#38 - 2015-04-24 08:54:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
Hahahah XD


https://zkillboard.com/character/90594610/ < The man posting in this forum


https://zkillboard.com/character/90692346/ < some random dude.


EDIT: I never said Wolf was bad at pvp. I just think HAM's are a little better off than what he's is saying. I personally could be wrong, Im more than willing to admit it.
#DeleteTheWeak
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#39 - 2015-04-24 15:01:40 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Hahahah XD


https://zkillboard.com/character/90594610/ < The man posting in this forum


https://zkillboard.com/character/90692346/ < some random dude.


EDIT: I never said Wolf was bad at pvp. I just think HAM's are a little better off than what he's is saying. I personally could be wrong, Im more than willing to admit it.



I see. Nothing too impressive, at least he takes risks.

I think he is poo pooing HAMS way too much as well. They are not niche, at least not anymore so than anything else in this game. RLML Are great, Hams are great, when you need HAMS and you have RLML you are screwed. I can't say the same in reverse.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2015-04-24 16:48:16 UTC  |  Edited by: W0lf Crendraven
Its the other way round.

If you need hams and you have rlmls you still do damage, if you need rlmls and have hams you do 0 damage.
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