EVE General Discussion

I absolutely do, I'm not going to be dishonest about it like you guys.

I am extremely glad that CCP finally decided to stand up to this cheating, it took them far too long to begin with.

And more smokescreens. Of course, it's not worth actually talking to you about this, because you will never admit to the truth.

Round-robin(isboxing) and alt-tabbing is nowhere near the same thing. With round robin you only need to hit the action trigger (F1 for example) 15 times in a row, where alt-tabbing you need to hit F1 AND THEN Alt+Tab, 15 times, which takes 2-3x longer. And don't even try to deny that hitting a single button 15 times takes half the time as hitting a sequence of 2 buttons 15 times does because that's just fact and common sense.



SO wrong. Again, making ridiculous comparisons and telling lies. Round Robin is NOTHING LIKE an electronic/software OR hardware KVM switch. A KVM switch is MANUALLY SWITCHED from computer to computer using a hardware button or special keyboard combination, where Round Robin will automatically switch focus after a command has been issued, JUST LIKE YOU SAID (underlined). KVM's do not do this, hardware OR software ones. Lies and deceptions again...

As for automatic, manual and paddle-shifter cars, yes, they ARE completely different. Automatic is just automatic shifting controlled by the transmission. Manual transmission is completely controlled by the driver and can go from any gear into any gear, and also, the driver must use the clutch pedal disengage the clutch before shifting unless he is powershifting. Paddle-shifters are driven by using the paddles to switch gears SEQUENTIALLY, unlike a manual, and also does not have a clutch pedal like manuals do. Quit spouting BS to try to make a point by using things you know nothing about.

No, I am simply accepting CCP's ruling on this one. I've long considered ISBoxer to be outright cheating, and finally CCP had the balls to do something about it.




Nope. They play the game by the game's rules, not use a third party program or a macro setup to control twenty accounts simultaneously.

There's nothing subjective about it, and there is no moral equivalency either.

Well first, there is no such function as OnMouseOverFocus for Windows in any programming language. There is an Ease Of Access function of Windows which will focus windows on mouseover events, which in my opinion is a perfectly acceptable way of playing since you're still performing an input to switch the window in focus, you're just using the mouse instead of the keyboard to switch. But, this is likely to be slower and can cause problems by a wandering mouse accidentally being in the wrong window.

I also don't see multiple monitors as being a cheat or hack because it's pretty much a standard to have multiple monitors nowadays(I've been using dual monitors at work for over 5 years), and not only does the OS support/provide it, but Eve Online itself supports multiple monitors for a single client. I don't see a reason why you can't run a separate client on each monitor, regardless of how many monitors you have. If you want to shrink down each Eve client to be very small so they all fit on one monitor, I think that's ok as well. But, running such small windows will make it near impossible to use all the functionality of a full-screen or even half-screen client.



That's why I said above "electronic/software" and mentioned the special key combination. I have also used both hardware and software KVM's in order to image and setup mass amounts of new computers all at once without needing to hook up each to a monitor/kb/mouse.

As for binding F1KeyDown to F1, this can't be done within the Eve client. It only accepts a full button press and release, and doesn't differentiate a KeyDown from a KeyUp event. If you use something else to bind a F1KeyDown event to F1, then you're already getting yourself into trouble, especially if you're using third-party software to modify the keybindings (I know it exists and I wlil not name it). So, being that the Eve client doesn't differentiate a keydown from a keyup event, then the combination of keydown followed by keyup is "an input", or, a button press. Splitting the action into 2 inputs doesn't mean you're circumventing the rules, because the KeyUp is still part of the single input in Eve. So you're still activating a module and switching windows with a single input.

And I wouldn't hold my breath on waiting for an answer about that from CCP since they've clearly stated that they will not say what is allow and isn't, and they can't, because there's too many programs and ways to use them out there. They've been flooded the last 5 months with thousands of questions. And as new things come out, they would need to be addressed. So I don't blame them for not giving any answers as to what is allowed. Can you imagine the list of software that would be on allowed and not allowed lists? They would have to update them constantly and would be a nightmare.

As far as I'm concerned (and I'm sure CCP thinks the same), if you're using anything other than the Eve Client to play or interact with the game, you're in breach of EULA/Policy. This of course excludes the Operating System which is obviously needed to RUN the game, as well as any hardware drivers needed to run your hardware (Gfx cards, Monitors, keyboard/mouse etc), and anyone pointing to those and saying that it's third-party is obviously grasping at straws and showing immaturity. Eve does not run on a console (XBox/PlayStation etc) where nothing is needed to play it other than the hardware. They HAVE stated specifically some software use which will not be enforced(Mumble, Teamspeak) and I'm sure that will change in the future as well, but until then, I'll keep using TeamSpeak, although I still don't know how to use the overlays it supposedly has... But, once it's "banned", I'll happily stop using it and switch back to Eve Voice, no problems.

What I do see in the future is things getting much worse for multiboxers if people don't stop bugging CCP about using this software and that software and certain features of whatnot. They WILL get fed up, and they will come out with something nasty that'll be worth complaining about.



That's a matter of personal opinion. I personally learned to drive stick shift and drove manual cars for 20 years until a month ago when I bought a new F150, and they only make them with automatic transmissions. I really hate it but I'm getting used to it. Heck, even my wife's BMW is a manual transmission and that's what she wanted! I've been in zero accidents.

I have tiled windows (no software used), I don't need to hit alt tab. Should that be against the rules? Currently it is as there's no way to tell the difference between that and round robin.

As are we, we just want clarification for where the line is drawn as manual multiboxers are definitely going to get caught up in the rules.

Which when it was done by players lasyt year was also within the rules. ISBoxer has been explicitly allowed for years, thus by your own logic, ISBoxer was not cheating.

You might want to talk to Nolak then, since he's blowing your cover with his ranting about Teamspeak and EveMon and stuff.



And thus far, the one time someone has tried to provide proof to me of that, they exposed another person using macros.

So I really don't buy that. No one ever got banned for alt tabbing, and no one ever will. This sneaky **** with keyboard macros, auto scrolling, and twenty client windows? I certainly won't miss anyone doing that.

That's a separate argument that other software also gives an advantage. I don't disagree with that, since without my trading tools I'd not make a 10th of the isk I make, but that's not really a concern for me. All I'm concerned with are manual multiboxers getting caught in bans for being overly efficient.

That's because it's impossible to prove, especially if you want to keep your account as releasing info abut bans is a bannable offense. Using tiled windows or a tool like eve-o preview (which team security have stated is completely legal) is easily as efficient as round robin (with which by the way, it's still easily possible to control 20+ client windows), and since they are looking at it purely from server side logs with no client side detection there's no way for them to tell which is which. This will lead to false positives, which are impossible to prove as such, and so people will get banned for playing the game in the way they are being told is allowed.

CCP wanted to look at a strict interpretation of the EULA, so I'm merely pointing out some programs that they may have missed. You may be surprised by it, but we want to play by the EULA as well.


Wrong. The person I "exposed", as you put it, was using either RoundRobin or VideoFX manipulation, both of which are allowed under the new EULA.
As for the "twenty clients", do you realize that Borg is still out in the fields with his 50-odd ships? We have entire fleets of similarly-named Procs down here, not even counting the guys with 10+ Thanatos running sites. If you want CCP to limit us to 1 client per IP or person, say it. There's already 2 CCP devs and at least 1 CSM member who supports the idea.

Anyway, in the end I suppose it should be per character basic. Eve is unfair, and if you think the people that used multiplexing or whatever before is ''unfair, op'' whatever. try to face the gfs blob, or **** you fleet. (celectians) (a lot off them) lol


Edit: and for an example off defense against multi boxer bombers (witch is still doable without pretty much anything (defensive bubbles / fire wall 'etc) insta locking harpys'etc. (maybe all battleships have like 1 smart bomb on each) there is ways to defend against it. if you got killed alone by someone who multi boxed you could just as well died to an fleet with similar ships/fleet comp. (in fact I would've put my money on 1 player on each character.