EVE General Discussion

Like discussed [url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=401032[/url], I also think missiles need some assistance modules, too. - especially for explosion radius.

People say like, 'hey you have target painters, webs, rigs, implants and if you are going to hit smaller ships, use precision missiles and stay calm'. But for all that, I am a missile lover, and want to show how it is unreasonable for a missileboat to engage with smaller ships than a gunboat.



1. Variousness of fittings

First, I want to show how the missileboats are restricted to fit the ships (especially when want to deal with various size of ships).

There are two types of assistance modules. One is buffing my weapons, another is nerfing enemy. But except damage multiplier modules, only turrets have some other buffing modules like tracking computers(TC), tracking enhancers(TE) and tracking links(TL). Nerfing modules are like targeting painters(TP) and webs.

Due to the fact that turrets have those modules, they have more broad range of selection to increase their expected dps. They can consider whether to use TC, TE, TP, webs or rigs but also can consider TLs, especially when running fleet with T2 logistics.

Missiles?

Missiles lack of those direct buff modules nor the TLs, and only left to choose TPs, webs or rigs. Moreover, those are not as effective as used with turrets, due to the difference of damage formula. I'll show this below.



2. Effectiveness of assistance modules

Thanks to the turret's damage formula, when turrents trying to hit a smaller ship (lets say, a frigate), they do not suffer from increasing the target's TINY signature radius because it is more easy to increase the turret's tracking by TE, TC, TL or decrease target's velocity by webs. Furthermore, when target is almost stopped - usually happens with Vindicators, target signature radius is scarcely affected. Then if the target is in your optimal range, it will hit the frigate with a FULL DAMAGE. Even a capital class turret can hit and blow it.

However missiles in a same situation - trying to hit a stopped frigate (throwing the explosion velocity away from here), missiles need one more step. Making explosion radius smaller and target signature radius bigger.

Lets say we are in a Raven Navy Issue with full skilled. We get 25% decreased explosion radius due to its ship bonus. Fitting two T2 rigor and one T1 rigor rigs will give another 55% decreased explosion radius.

In EFT, it says a normal cruise missile's explosion radius will be decreased from 313.5 to 100.98. Marvelous! But it is not enough to hit a frigate which the signature is less than 50. This will decrease its actual damage by more than a half. FYI, a precision missile with same setup has 90.882 explosion radius. And, you know, thats what all we can do for explosion radius (except the implant which reduces only maximum 6%. When it is plugged, final explosion radius is reduced to 94, but I did not included this in below calculations).

Now, lets take two TPs to the target frigate. Each of them will increase 37.5%, tally 75% (when equiped meta 4 TP, full skilled and ignoring stacking penalty). BUT the target frigate, which only has 35 signature radius will be around 60. Even if you take hundreds of TPs, you will hardly reach the signature radius to 100 since the stacking penalty exists.

Now, we get 40% decreased damage when using cruise missile, which the actual value is decreased from 776 to 460 with faction ammo, 675 to 447 with T2 precision missile (note that precision deals less than faction ammo). Interestingly, torpedo with faction ammo deals 467, which is the highest dps among them (torpedo's theoritical maximum damage was 1070).


So my conclusion is this :

Since turrets have more various assistance modules(and thanks to the formula), they are able to choose fits with various selections. Plus, they can hit smaller ships effectively with higher damages (and also with insta hit).

I showed a maximum effort to make the battleship class missile to deal with a frigate in a reasonable range. But the result shows that it is not enough to get full damage to a frigate. I know somebody will say like 'battleship class missiles are not for frigates, you maggot'. Then I'd like to say the battleship class turrets should also be expected to deal less like missiles do. But they AREN'T.

Then why not for missiles?

Any reasonable comment is appreciated.

You can spin around a target stupid fast and not worry about tracking. Turrets don't have such luxury and as such need tracking computers occasionally.

Missles get rigs just like turrets though, so instead of augmenting your tank with rigs, just use slots. Shields even get shield boost booster modules that armor doesn't.

OP has never met a RHML raven in their frigate.

Prolly cuz CCP doesn't want u to 1 shot frigs with Cruises?

And my megathron will miss a frigate completely when using 425 rails. So, your cruise raven is in a much better position than my rail mega.

Even if you use rails(which are usually not proper fits for figs), you can hit a stopped frig (you can make it by webs lets say, 30m/s?). The better if you are buffed by TLs of T2 logistics.

That I am assuming a small fleet with a couple of T2 logistics playing PVE, you can even hit far more efficiently than my example RNI.

"different weapon systems work differently, all have pros and cons. why can't I also have the pros of turrets added to my pros of missiles?"


ps, there is a solution: it's called rapid launchers.

Then they can add some disadvantages with current missile mechanism.

Something like
- missiles now has probability of missing the target according to their flight time.
or
- missiles now are less guided to the target, faster ships may escape them.

I'm not saying missiles needs buffs. What I want is to give them more oppotunity to deal with various situations. I think there are rooms to adjust the current missile mechanism we have.


I think rapids are not acceptable for PVE purpose because of its reload time, though.

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