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Hi-Sec Drifters and Seekers

Author
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#1 - 2015-04-18 03:23:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Dangeresque Too
*TLDR: This thread is about Drifters in Hi-Sec, and how to deal with them. If only because you can't use caps in Hi-Sec and those are the premier way to handle Drifters.*

After poking around at some Seekers and having their big brother Drifters come in to ruin the party earlier this evening on TQ, I got to wondering, what exactly is the point to them in Hi-Sec and is there any reason to not just ignore them?

From what little I could gather Seekers drop no loot and salvage only yields metal scraps, so not worth the ammo. Then if you kill a few of them and wait long enough their big brother Drifters show up and facemelt you. I know in Low and Null you can use caps to take them out as you can tank them enough to survive a DD, but you can't do that in Hi-Sec.

Is attempting to kill a Hi-Sec Drifter in any way remotely worth the effort and ISK in ships sacrificed to the DD? In theory I guess you could get a bunch of people together in cruisers (that go faster than 3.5km/s) that also have sufficient DPS to kill a Drifter between DD's. But how long would that take? How much tank/ehp do they have after the over-shield? Do they do omni dmg or have omni tanks? I noticed the Seekers seemed more vulnerable to my kin missiles rather than em, at least I think so because they were doing consistent dmg for each volley, which was odd.

Are Drifters even worth the effort in Low or Null? Do they drop any loot or salvage?

Some other interesting things we learned about the Drifters from tonight's experiments were:
1) That they will continue to bear down on your location if you drive off the edge of grid.
2) They will target and shoot to an infinite distance, I presume, though we were only working with a grid that was 800km across, and they were locking and engaging across the whole length.
3) Their turrets seem to not be effective until around 70-80km at which point they will start hitting.
4) Drifters don't warp around grid, they just haul it the old fashioned way, not that 3.5km/s is a laughable speed.
5) They continue to follow and re-engage a target after several minutes being docked in a station.
6) They didn't scram/point though the closest we let them get was I think 19km (when they surprisingly drove to the new grid).

I've seen a few threadnaughts about Seekers and Drifters and Jove, but those are all lore this and theory that, I couldn't find a definitive source of information and facts about them that hasn't been outdated by someone figuring out how to solo them in a Cerb.
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2015-04-18 03:40:17 UTC
One of the main points to them is that they have constantly become harder and harder to kill and have been adjusted to counter specific player tactics that have been used against them. The point to killing them is to gain antikythera elements, which will be needed in manufacturing Entosis links.

Beyond that, there isn't a specific reason to engage them.
Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
#3 - 2015-04-18 04:13:13 UTC
I feel it is still too early to tell exactly how things will turn out but I do recall reading how Drifters will change behaviour according to our actions.

In time I expect Hi Sec to become quite dangerous due to us having irritated the Drifters. ;)
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#4 - 2015-04-18 04:18:35 UTC
When they can kill tanked caps in low & null, then there is a point to engaging them in high sec for elements.
Till then Low & Null can farm them at zero PvE losses while Highsec has to accept losses (Potentially a couple of Battleships can actually take the DD atm, but it requires about 4-5 billion per battleship, if not more, and needs 3 of them to reliably have enough reps in spider tank formation, and their DPS sucks). Obviously there is PvP risk, but that's negateable via other means.
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-04-18 04:31:07 UTC
The real question is what would be the point of removing them form Highsec? Nada. They aren't isk farms, they aren't seeking out targets, they just wait for you to come and pick a fight.. I see no reason not to leave them alone and let people have their fun.. or at least learning experience :)
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#6 - 2015-04-18 06:41:54 UTC
Kay, just so we're all nice and clear on this, Antikythera (Drifter, Circadian loot) goes for 11.5 mil in Jita right now.
Drifters always drop 2 Antikythera. Circadian Seekers have a chance to drop 1 Anitkythera (about 40%)

It takes about 70 Thermal DPS to kill a Drifter.

For me, I lose 1.5 million per Drifter kill, and theoretically gain 23 million.

I don't kill Drifters for money, but ~21.5 million per kill sounds pretty nice to me.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#7 - 2015-04-18 09:40:15 UTC
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:
Kay, just so we're all nice and clear on this, Antikythera (Drifter, Circadian loot) goes for 11.5 mil in Jita right now.
Drifters always drop 2 Antikythera. Circadian Seekers have a chance to drop 1 Anitkythera (about 40%)

It takes about 70 Thermal DPS to kill a Drifter.

For me, I lose 1.5 million per Drifter kill, and theoretically gain 23 million.

I don't kill Drifters for money, but ~21.5 million per kill sounds pretty nice to me.

And takes you how long per kill on average and what happens when 2 spawn?
Also if you are exploiting an AI loophole to shut them down, expect it to be patched very soon.
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#8 - 2015-04-18 10:05:48 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:
Kay, just so we're all nice and clear on this, Antikythera (Drifter, Circadian loot) goes for 11.5 mil in Jita right now.
Drifters always drop 2 Antikythera. Circadian Seekers have a chance to drop 1 Anitkythera (about 40%)

It takes about 70 Thermal DPS to kill a Drifter.

For me, I lose 1.5 million per Drifter kill, and theoretically gain 23 million.

I don't kill Drifters for money, but ~21.5 million per kill sounds pretty nice to me.

And takes you how long per kill on average and what happens when 2 spawn?
Also if you are exploiting an AI loophole to shut them down, expect it to be patched very soon.

Takes around ten minutes for me.

When two spawn, I face difficulty, but that's when I have to manually orbit.
I'm still practicing that, so it's much more economical for me to just find a different system.

I've been killing them since they were first placed on SiSi. And I still kill them to this day.
OP stats doesn't give them the player's ability to actively make decisions.
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2015-04-18 11:13:43 UTC
So it's confirmed Seekers drop them 'antik' too, just not so often? Do you have to engage them at a Obersatory to get it or cam you destroy them any where in system?
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#10 - 2015-04-18 11:31:21 UTC
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:
So it's confirmed Seekers drop them 'antik' too, just not so often? Do you have to engage them at a Obersatory to get it or cam you destroy them any where in system?

Wherever they are in system.

You'll find Circadian Seeker groups at Stargates, Customs Offices, Stations, and Unidentified Wormhole or Jove Observatory beacons.
The default Drifter Battleship group only warps between the Unidentified Wormhole and Jove Observatory, unless it's following.

The Circadian Seeker group is formed in two ways; either:
4-5 Circadian Seekers, or
2 Circadian Seekers and 1 Drifter Battleship.

Reinforcements come for both groups (on most occasions). They can be either reinforcements of Circadian Seekers (usually 5, but I've seen a whole hell of a lot form up on grid when the Circadian Seeker group joins the fray), or 2 more Drifter Battleships

("Yeah, I'm just... I'm just gonna... leave... now.").


Uhhm.. Oh, yeah, the two groups are separate.
You can be shooting Circadian Seekers from the Drifter Battleship group, and the Circadian Seeker group won't care.
I haven't tested the other way round, and I can't now, mainly because Drifters automatically attack capsuleers with terrible standing (who knew!?).
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
#11 - 2015-04-18 11:31:58 UTC
Quote:
So it's confirmed Seekers drop them 'antik' too, just not so often? Do you have to engage them at a Obersatory to get it or cam you destroy them any where in system?

Yes, Circadian Seekers have a chance to drop the Antikythera Element. Doesn't matter where you engage them in system.
If you kill the first group of Seekers (between 3-5) a reinforcement (~4) is likely to warp in.
Drop chances are rng based of course, but killing those 2 waves of let's say 9 Seekers, i got min. 1 and max. 4 Element drops. So i would say drop chance is around 25%.
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2015-04-18 12:05:46 UTC
Good to know, my next question is what is the ideal Seeker killing ship? I'm sure it's been posted somewhere before so If any one can link a description of a good fit, or the kind of stats needed to kill them please advise me.

Thanks in advance.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#13 - 2015-04-18 12:23:38 UTC
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:

You can be shooting Circadian Seekers from the Drifter Battleship group, and the Circadian Seeker group won't care.
I haven't tested the other way round, and I can't now, mainly because Drifters automatically attack capsuleers with terrible standing (who knew!?).

How do you check those standings as a matter of interest?

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.

Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#14 - 2015-04-18 12:28:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:

You can be shooting Circadian Seekers from the Drifter Battleship group, and the Circadian Seeker group won't care.
I haven't tested the other way round, and I can't now, mainly because Drifters automatically attack capsuleers with terrible standing (who knew!?).

How do you check those standings as a matter of interest?

Character Sheet > Standings > Disliked By > Drifters
Of course, it'll only be there if you've killed Drifters*

*Only in the Drifter group in Unidentified Wormhole systems. Drifters spawning as part of the Circadian Seeker group do not modify Drifter standings.


Edit: attacks as a result of Standings will occur after 1 minute of being on-grid.
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2015-04-18 12:33:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Elyia Suze Nagala
wrote:
*Only in the Drifter group in Unidentified Wormhole systems. Drifters spawning as part of the Circadian Seeker group do not modify Drifter standings.


Can anyone else confirm this? That's a big hunting advantage if true. You seem quite, knowledgeable till now and I'm not doubting you, I just want to fact check before I go killing any of them.
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#16 - 2015-04-18 12:39:21 UTC
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:
Good to know, my next question is what is the ideal Seeker killing ship? I'm sure it's been posted somewhere before so If any one can link a description of a good fit, or the kind of stats needed to kill them please advise me.

Thanks in advance.

I collected some Circadian Seeker stats here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5404261#post5404261
But their behavior varies quite a bit from the database entry.
Sometimes there are different resist values, different orbit ranges, and speeds.

In general, EM is the best for shooting them, but the range of the resists is only 11%, so it doesn't matter too much.

I think orbit ranges might vary on the class of ship you're using, but I haven't tested that.
Generally they orbit close.

I'm not sure on the best ship overall.
I fly Frigates, so I used Garmur to shoot at them. It worked pretty well, but I'll most-likely use a Daredevil next time.
Damage negation is great with Frigates, but I can't offer anything on the "ideal" ship.
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#17 - 2015-04-18 12:47:17 UTC
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:
wrote:
*Only in the Drifter group in Unidentified Wormhole systems. Drifters spawning as part of the Circadian Seeker group do not modify Drifter standings.


Can anyone else confirm this? That's a big hunting advantage if true. You seem quite, knowledgeable till now and I'm not doubting you, I just want to fact check before I go killing any of them.

Regardless of that, the main point that you absolutely must be aware of is that Drifters can and will spawn as reinforcements.
Reinforcements attack immediately, so you're looking at a 12,800 omni-damage volley as soon as these guys spawn.

That's what will catch you out when shooting Circadians.

Bad Standings towards Drifters are fine to manage.
They don't attack until 1 minute of being on-grid (last tested by me three weeks ago).
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#18 - 2015-04-18 13:22:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Dangeresque Too
I'm not saying they should be removed from Hi-Sec, just wondering what the point in bothering with the hassle of exploding a ship or 3 to them was when you could just scrap your ship in the hangar and at least get some resources out of it. Thanks for the info guys, it has been educational for me and at least 1 other person, success!

The Seekers I encountered all orbited at 10k, and since I was testing stuff I was trying to salvage as I went I only downed 2 of the 4 Seekers before a Drifter spawned and ruined the fun.

I was using a brick fit HAM Drake and got the seekers to the gate so I had a quick exit if needed. This way I could fly out to the wrecks and still have time to get back to the gate even with Drifter aggro.

How do the Drifters react to say a neutral logi cruiser repping from max range? And I saw somewhere that ECM was helpful but last I heard a while back was that ECM was no longer effective after one of the buffs, in either case, what flavor of ECM is most effective against them?

I was also going to get on Sisi today and see if I could figure out a good battleship fit to survive the DD, but can't remember the specific specs on the dmg of the weapon itself.
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#19 - 2015-04-18 13:32:12 UTC
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:

Drifters always drop 2 Antikythera. Circadian Seekers have a chance to drop 1 Anitkythera (about 40%)
So this is in the loot drop in the wreck, not the salvaging of the wreck, correct?
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#20 - 2015-04-18 13:32:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Dangeresque Too wrote:
I'm not saying they should be removed from Hi-Sec, just wondering what the point in bothering with the hassle of exploding a ship or 3 to them was when you could just scrap your ship in the hangar and at least get some resources out of it. Thanks for the info guys, it has been educational for me and at least 1 other person, success!

The Seekers I encountered all orbited at 10k, and since I was testing stuff I was trying to salvage as I went I only downed 2 of the 4 Seekers before a Drifter spawned and ruined the fun.

I was using a brick fit HAM Drake and got the seekers to the gate so I had a quick exit if needed. This way I could fly out to the wrecks and still have time to get back to the gate even with Drifter aggro.

How do the Drifters react to say a neutral logi cruiser repping from max range? And I saw somewhere that ECM was helpful but last I heard a while back was that ECM was no longer effective after one of the buffs, in either case, what flavor of ECM is most effective against them?

I was also going to get on Sisi today and see if I could figure out a good battleship fit to survive the DD, but can't remember the specific specs on the dmg of the weapon itself.

Haven't testing any reaction from neutral logi. Just hazarding a guess, I don't think they'd engage it.

When I checked the database in Tiamat, I was rather amused. Drifters have 500 points to all sensor types.
I don't know too much about ECM, but I'm pretty sure you can't jam them anymore.

For the doomsday, 187.5K damage to ALL damage types, making for 750K damage total. `

And for the Lux Kontos, it deals 1600 dmg to ALL damage types, making for 1280 omni-DPS per Drifter.
2560 DPS overall. You'll also need to have 750K EHP by the end of that.
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