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After 3 months of Eve, here are my suggestions.
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Rat Sotken
HC - Redemption
#1 - 2015-04-16 00:05:01 UTC
Ok, so I'm relatively new to Eve, only been playing for about 2-3 months. And I've been compiling a list of things that might make Eve better. I could of posted each in their own relevant thread, but there is a lot of crossover.

Sorry if they've been discussed before and been killed as an idea.

Reduce the size of static highssec, by making lowsec transformable based on activity. Almost like sovereignty but for highsec. Fuel costs and security costs. Minimum 2 system buffer between high sec and null sec.
Like top 20% populated systems are automatically 1.0 space. Then spread a certain number of systems to be split amongst number of jumps over the past month, which defines its sec level between 0.9 and 0.5.
Dynamic. Make ores and ice, able to be anomalied, randomly spwans in every system. The more active they are in mining and those sites will start spawning in those systems. Expansion of Mining Index
The more often a system is emptied of ore, the valuableness of the ores will decrease. So as a system that was in Low and is now in High, it will eventually change from like Hedbergite to Veldspar.

Make it easier for players to create markets. Traders only trade where they can find demand, but unless someone notifies of their demand in a local area, it’s a hit or miss affair.
There is no incentive for players to post buy orders when its just easier to go to one of the three main trade hubs. Maybe even teach players oh how and why to setup buy orders.
Market PvP, needing Wholesale 3. You will be able to see who the buy and sell orders belong to and you can choose what orders you can buy from. Maybe even blocking other traders so you don't trade with them.
Be able to tag and mark your orders with notes. Lowest price to go, Date order got setup, Types (Trading, Production, Loot, Junk) Maybe even a lock on the order, to prevent accidental changes
Sometimes you don't need to or want to 0.01 isk every order that you have on the market.

Ghost fitting. There's DPS, how about reps per second, rep range, remote reps, etc. Healing/Repairing stats.
Maybe a part of ghost fitting would be to see the skills that affect the specific module, both potentially and currently and by how much. Highlighting in green the stats it has improved or highlghting in red it has decreased with the new value
ECM for me is a black hole. Make it simpler. I still havent figured it out, so can't really suggest on how to improve it.
Make it an option that you can rank possible and available items by popularity or price.

Contracts. Automated scripts. You can set it up than when a certain item goes over a certain quantity or value, if available to post it up as a contract, for a defined sum or percentage to a predefined station.
Mostly to aid those, with PI, industry, miners and loot. It will spread industry out more, create more jobs, and lower prices. Since hauling is the biggest hurdle.
By default it will be created as public contracts, but if not claimed within 8 hours, can be claimed by NPC's.
Can also be push, like when a POS needs fuel, it can be bought from a station and delivered to a designated station. Given all the conditions are met. Player is still required to attend to top up.
Maybe even jetcan contracts, but have to be somewhat price exorbitant. Pick up jetcan and deliver to a station.

Easier way to link Chat Channels.
Maybe drag name from neocom down to chat box?

Default training times for skills without implants, in the skill info.
Maybe even include in brackets the modified values with current implants.

A shared way to view your skills. Like to be able to link your skills, and let the other person see your skills within the game.
So they can advise where you're weak and/or skills you've missed or should train.

Null sec is meant to be the most dangerous space. Have NPC races attacking them on the outside edges, so they have more fronts.
And eventually you can link up sovereignty between all spaces, so low and high sec can expand. Given enough players and activity.
High traffic areas in null, might become 1.0 sec, but with private security forces and the corp/alliance that controls that system, are free to attack anyone else. Whereas everyone else, might be attacked by private security forces for aggressing anyone in the corp.
Therefore linking activity levels to security levels. Maybe also tempered by asset value in each system.
To the people outside the corp/alliance, is still considered null, but for the people within, there is more security.
The more mining activity and assets in their market hub in a system, the stronger private security force they can select, but obviously cannot surpass CONCORD.

Structures. Every player has an influence point. Can only invest in a single structure at any one time, which is inputted into a universal structure index. Can be switched or if structure is destroyed. Influence bonuses, like more efficiency, cheaper costs for additions.
Like maybe applies to 300 market hubs per class level. XL, L, M, S. Specifc bonuses, taking into account corp size and whether they are in NPC corp.
If public structures, can get points from anyone.
Or if you want to be more data intensive, is automatically assigned to the player station they have used most in the last week.

Skill Queue. Being able to drag multiple skills at once, instead of one by one.

Being able to join multiple corps. So can join corps with multiple stations around the universe.

Market Scanner. You have an item and are able to check within only one of the corporations that you belong to, to find the best places to sell to. Specifically has to be limited, so can only apply one corporation to scan against in game. Maybe can only change once a month.

Graphical Skill Tree Display. Like on WoW, Diablo and Path Of Exile as examples.
At a glance, people can see what skills lead to others.
Rat Sotken
HC - Redemption
#2 - 2015-04-16 00:06:09 UTC
Map Overlays. I want to be able to make a note on any planet and in map view, able to see a viewable figure.
eg. Deaths in that system, jumps, market value, or any of the indexes.

Opportunites. Use a flowchart to determine player profiles, then do like Ship Masteries. Career Masteries, what skills you suggest they should aim for within their first 3 months

Haha whew, anyways, my two cents.
We'll see what the response will be. :)
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#3 - 2015-04-16 06:31:55 UTC
IT IS really easy to create a market, take a bunch of stuff to a station and start selling stuff there, repeat until people come out of jita to you because you're cheaper or something and hey presto!

We do NOT need more automation in eve, hell we need LESS of it if anything... No thinly veiled market bots described as scripts...

And I while i think your "dynamic truesec" could be fun Jita and amarr and such would all drop to -1.0 over night in a massive ganking op for which crushes EVE's economy. That said, have you concidered the guys who LIKE living in highsec? I mean i dont often leave it myself since i like an EXCUSE to go pvping not just "f'itletsdothis!" Who would be severly hampered in THEIR EVE if niarja and Uedama dropped to lowsec...

I get these might be good for for YOUR EVE, but what about THEIR EVE?
Rat Sotken
HC - Redemption
#4 - 2015-04-16 08:32:53 UTC
Well initially my thoughts were the tradehubs, Amarr, Jita, Dodixie, Rens, Hek would form the backbone of highsec, with the systems around them forming static highsec, maybe out to 3-7 jumps. The rest would be contestable like lowsec. Its like sovereignty, make every high sec system valuable. Make corps claim a system of their own by claiming it from lowsec. Of course certain lowsec system would have to be permanent as well for exceptions, like explorations, FW and other things.

So I would actually envision the trade routes between the hubs to go up to around 0.8 and 0.9. based on jump activity. But it would be interesting if Niarja and Uedama did drop into lowsec. Would players switch to JF or would someone step in to bring Uedama back into Highsec.

In no way am I promoting market bots which make trading easier. They aren't setting up any orders, they aren't changing orders, just buying straight off the market.

Playing devil's advocate and since you introduced the idea, what would be wrong with a Burn Jita event, that actually causes Jita to move to another system? Jita collapses, then you have the option to rebuild or start fresh somewhere else. More dynamic options with repercussions.
But events like that could be mitigated, just by extending the moving averages which would ignore outliers like one time events.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#5 - 2015-04-16 09:10:31 UTC
Rat Sotken wrote:

Playing devil's advocate and since you introduced the idea, what would be wrong with a Burn Jita event, that actually causes Jita to move to another system? Jita collapses, then you have the option to rebuild or start fresh somewhere else. More dynamic options with repercussions.
But events like that could be mitigated, just by extending the moving averages which would ignore outliers like one time events.

Just in, via paradox com, an EN24 article from 3 weeks after this feature went live
paradox com wrote:

Now, with jita pushed down to nullsec, and the surrounding systems firmly sitting as 0.2 space, The Imperium has announced that they will be hellcamping the 4-4 undock. Famous FC DBRD was heard to quote a famous meme "LOCAL IS PRIMARY". Residents of the game who were on vacation are reportedly being killed by the hundred as they are caught in the warp disruption bubbles that extend 300km in all directions from the jita station. The total isk loss is staggering, and brought Zkill to it's knees, with an average of 5 kills a second during the first day of the hellcamp. It also seems that something like 1/3 of the existing supply of officer modules is trapped in that one station, much to the sadness of "1337 mission blitzers".

CODE. gatecamps of perimeter and New caldari see surprisingly few actual kills however

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Cade Windstalker
#6 - 2015-04-16 10:11:16 UTC
Rat Sotken wrote:
Ok, so I'm relatively new to Eve, only been playing for about 2-3 months. And I've been compiling a list of things that might make Eve better. I could of posted each in their own relevant thread, but there is a lot of crossover.

Sorry if they've been discussed before and been killed as an idea.

Reduce the size of static highssec, by making lowsec transformable based on activity.


I'll be honest, I kind of cringe whenever I see someone start one of these posts with "so I haven't been playing very long but...".

Anyways, moving on... yes! Most of this has been posted somewhere before, however the threads generally go inactive pretty quickly so I don't think you're in violation of the no-reposts rule.

Screwing with High Sec like this would pretty much kill the game. Among other issues players don't like leaving the game for a few months only to come back and find out all of their stuff is in Low or NPC Null now. There's a new "may High Sec more dynamic/dangerous thread about once or twice a month and none of these radical "force people out" ideas are ever going to fly. They would kill play-styles and kill the game along with them, because the majority of active characters are in High Sec, like it or not it's the foundation of the game and you don't want to kick it in the shins until it falls over.

Rat Sotken wrote:
Dynamic. Make ores and ice, able to be anomalied, randomly spwans in every system. The more active they are in mining and those sites will start spawning in those systems.


It would take about two days for all of the Ice in the game to be in four systems, one of each racial variant. Ice is rare the way it is now because the market is very very reactive to changes in supply and if the supply starts swinging around wildly everything that requires fuel gets more expensive. Also Ice is literally the most valuable thing to Mine in High or Low Sec most of the time, so this doesn't mesh with your "more activity changes the mineral spawns!" idea.

Rat Sotken wrote:
Make it easier for players to create markets. Traders only trade where they can find demand, but unless someone notifies of their demand in a local area, it’s a hit or miss affair.

Ghost fitting.


That's what buy orders are for. Players only post buy orders in trade hubs because it's not worth the premium they would have to pay to get their stuff delivered most of the time. These hubs formed out of player action, and CCP is not going to re-write the entire in-game economy so that you have an easier time trading.

Ghost fitting feedback goes in the thread for that topic.

Rat Sotken wrote:
Contracts. Automated scripts. You can set it up than when a certain item goes over a certain quantity or value, if available to post it up as a contract, for a defined sum or percentage to a predefined station.


This is a buy order. Alternatively you can just post up a contract at the price you're wiling to buy or sell at. Either way nothing with the phrase "automated script" is ever going to make it into Eve Online. That's called a Bot and we ban those. Pirate

Rat Sotken wrote:
Easier way to link Chat Channels.
Maybe drag name from neocom down to chat box?


This overlaps with the functionality to drag windows around and that's bad UI design. You can drag channels from the search box or right-click link them. Overall it's not terribly hard.
Cade Windstalker
#7 - 2015-04-16 10:12:33 UTC
Rat Sotken wrote:
Default training times for skills without implants, in the skill info.
Maybe even include in brackets the modified values with current implants.

A shared way to view your skills. Like to be able to link your skills, and let the other person see your skills within the game.
So they can advise where you're weak and/or skills you've missed or should train.


There are third party programs for this stuff, there's also no point in showing you training time with and without implants, the increase is linear and higher numbers are always better. This would just clutter the UI.

If you want to show other people your skills that's what the API is for. Use this site: http://eveboard.com/

Rat Sotken wrote:
Null sec is meant to be the most dangerous space. Have NPC races attacking them on the outside edges, so they have more fronts.
And eventually you can link up sovereignty between all spaces, so low and high sec can expand. Given enough players and activity.
High traffic areas in null, might become 1.0 sec, but with private security forces and the corp/alliance that controls that system, are free to attack anyone else. Whereas everyone else, might be attacked by private security forces for aggressing anyone in the corp.
Therefore linking activity levels to security levels. Maybe also tempered by asset value in each system.
To the people outside the corp/alliance, is still considered null, but for the people within, there is more security.
The more mining activity and assets in their market hub in a system, the stronger private security force they can select, but obviously cannot surpass CONCORD.


Null is about building something. Having it shift around based on actually using what you've built is a terrible mechanic. Also we already have Incursions. NPCs are not a serious threat, they're a source of loot and ISK.

Rat Sotken wrote:

Structures. Every player has an influence point. Can only invest in a single structure at any one time, which is inputted into a universal structure index. Can be switched or if structure is destroyed. Influence bonuses, like more efficiency, cheaper costs for additions.
Like maybe applies to 300 market hubs per class level. XL, L, M, S. Specifc bonuses, taking into account corp size and whether they are in NPC corp.
If public structures, can get points from anyone.
Or if you want to be more data intensive, is automatically assigned to the player station they have used most in the last week.


This doesn't even remotely make sense but I think it has something to do with buffing stuff for free. No.

Rat Sotken wrote:
Skill Queue. Being able to drag multiple skills at once, instead of one by one.

Being able to join multiple corps. So can join corps with multiple stations around the universe.


The game has to validate your new skill setup attempt so skills have to be added one at a time.

The stations thing makes no sense, and beyond the fact that Eve isn't set up to allow players to join multiple corps there's no point to this beyond getting taxed twice. If another corp wants you to have access to their stuff there are mechanisms in place for that.

Rat Sotken wrote:
Market Scanner. You have an item and are able to check within only one of the corporations that you belong to, to find the best places to sell to. Specifically has to be limited, so can only apply one corporation to scan against in game. Maybe can only change once a month.


You probably want to check some of the various external tools that are available. No, they are not perfectly accurate: http://www.eve-markets.net/

Also FYI the answer to such a query, as you have defined it here, is always going to be some scam/bait order in Low or Null Sec space. (well, the ones in Low generally are, the Null ones can be legit but they're rarely accessible unless you're friendly with the owners, so yeahl... effectively bait/scam)
Cade Windstalker
#8 - 2015-04-16 10:18:52 UTC
Rat Sotken wrote:
Graphical Skill Tree Display. Like on WoW, Diablo and Path Of Exile as examples.
At a glance, people can see what skills lead to others.


This would look like a spider-web trying to summon Cthulu. This is why we have a "Required For" section in the skill info window with five tabs and a list instead of a graphical nightmare. Seriously, download Eve Mon, it has some limited version of this but nothing like a full tree because, again, Cthulu.

Rat Sotken wrote:
Map Overlays. I want to be able to make a note on any planet and in map view, able to see a viewable figure.
eg. Deaths in that system, jumps, market value, or any of the indexes.


The map info is purposefully not 100% accurate, otherwise what you're asking for already exists. If you're talking about new features watch the recent Fanfest presentation on the map and potential updates to it. I think there may be a thread around somewhere too.

Rat Sotken wrote:
Opportunites. Use a flowchart to determine player profiles, then do like Ship Masteries. Career Masteries, what skills you suggest they should aim for within their first 3 months

Haha whew, anyways, my two cents.
We'll see what the response will be. :)


It's not the job of the game to determine what you should or shouldn't be doing. It should show you the options but not optimize the game for you or push you toward a specific career.

Rat Sotken wrote:
In no way am I promoting market bots which make trading easier. They aren't setting up any orders, they aren't changing orders, just buying straight off the market.


Then that's a Buy Order.

Rat Sotken wrote:
Playing devil's advocate and since you introduced the idea, what would be wrong with a Burn Jita event, that actually causes Jita to move to another system? Jita collapses, then you have the option to rebuild or start fresh somewhere else. More dynamic options with repercussions.
But events like that could be mitigated, just by extending the moving averages which would ignore outliers like one time events.


Yeah this would pretty much crash the in-game economy and probably kill the game as everyone involved in trading, hauling, or industry finds that CCP have completely screwed over their play-style with one event.

Seriously, High Sec play-styles are the backbone of the game and are just as valid as all of the ganking and PvP and space-violence. Please consider this when making future suggestions.
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#9 - 2015-04-16 11:48:13 UTC
Also does it really MATTER? I mean if you moved the ENTIRITY OF jita 4-4 to Perimeter or Palas or wherever it'd still be "jita" it just wouldn't be IN jita if that matters...

Also quit trying to get your sandbox into my sandbox;)
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
#10 - 2015-04-16 11:51:22 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:

I'll be honest, I kind of cringe whenever I see someone start one of these posts with "so I haven't been playing very long but...".


My first thought when reading the first lines in this thread was: "you know nothing, John Snow".
Zimmer Jones
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-04-16 14:16:10 UTC
My first reaction to this post is "awww, thats so cute!" And it lasted till the end of the post!

Unfortunately, since this is a game for game testers, --you know those people willing to jump in a corner of a game world for days on end to get a possible glitch-- any new mechanic put forward will be abused beyond breaking. Slow steps forward. It will take more than 3 months to even have a small taste of a small facet of eve, and all facets have an effect on how eve rolls.

Sit back and enjoy, skill up and try everything you can, ask questions get as many answers as possible, the correct answer is the one you reach by yourself. F&I is a tough sell, because most here don't like broken stuff, but enjoy breaking stuff.

Use the force without consent and the court wont acquit you even if you are a card carryin', robe wearin' Jedi.
Rat Sotken
HC - Redemption
#12 - 2015-04-16 21:05:19 UTC
Cade Windstalker,
Thank you for your response.
Why is it the automatic response is that High sec would decrease? High sec could double in size. Until its implemented, we'll never know.
If you ask me, if someone left the game for a year, they should not be able to expect that their POS is still there.
A playstyle of visiting one month every year is not a playstyle that should be encouraged. If a player comes back from one year, they should be surprised and excited that there have been many changes since they last logged on. Unless you like to play the game year after year and pop in once a year and notice nothing really has changed, then log out to try another game.

In regards to tinkering with Ice or any fuel component, yes I would agree, every precaution has to be taken, thats a behemoth of a market.

If more players posted buy orders in their home system, and if there was enough momentum, traders would step in to fill the need. 1 Jita hub could be transformed into 20 Rens hubs. Although I will admit, you will always need a central market for those rarer types of goods. It wouldn't make trading easier since I'd have to fly around a lot more. Yes my ideas are centered around my experiences, because thats the only way to base my suggestions off, and I have also tried to keep them as objective as possible.

Until they have an API for contracts, contracts will only ever be used by the minority. Its fine if you know specifically what you're looking for. But for market trawling, its a pain, you have to know your items and the market.

Linking Chat Channels, please tell me how to do this. I don't know how to do it. I tried searching and I can't right clink link them.

Thank you for EveBoard, I didn't know it existed.

Why is it a terrible mechanic, if your activity in Null affects what you can do?
Yes I know about Incursions, but Incursions don't affect the landscape. They pop up, get farmed and move.
I'm thinking like Drifters and Sleepers. Have a fleet of them, with one of them being a Battleship. Which is essentially unbeatable. If you stay on grid, it will destroy everything except a handful of ships before it moves on. I want it to affect how you view NPC's as easily farmable. I want you to scan a fleet, to see if you can take it on or not. I want you to run because noone can defeat that fleet. Make it like a borg cube, that pumps out little cubes, and are the only ways for a rare loot to drop. You'll never kill the main cube, but you have to do hit and run jobs, while taking an immense pummelling. Maybe even anything less than a Cap will be vaporised. If it is a Cap, it will ramp up its firepower testing the Cap, whereas if you come in anything smaller, it knows it is easy and will wallop it within the first 5 seconds. Have a few of them roaming around in Null. Lol, sorry for the rambling.

Okay, sorry if I wasn't clear about my influence idea. Basically its allowing people at all levels to enjoy bonuses at their home player station. It could be anything. Its just that I see Home station at the moment, is just the cloning base. Used for nothing else. What if you were on grid around your home base, you get a 2% armor buff, or you link the base giving it a targeting sensor bonus or even a layer of ships could literally add more to the shield hp by contributing your own shields to the stations shields.

Skill Queue. I meant more like the skills are already in the queue, but I want to move like 5 from the bottom all the way to the top. Its a little thing and in this case, just being lazy.

The way I see it, with the structure review coming, there will be corps who will specialise in providing trade hubs around the universe. An alternative to the standard Empire trade hubs. Just thinking long term that there could be multiple types of this kind of corp, which would confer membership benefits. But I am curious, if another corp wanted me to have access to stuff, how is it done? Jetcan in space, contract in station. When you're running your own market hub, thats very time consuming.

Market Scanner is more like an introductory tool to get people to see regional pricing. Then if they like it, then they can go to the market websites to pursue it better.

Career Masteries, I'm just saying, now that CCP have got player profiles, they might as well make more use of it. If they know you are a Trader, then it will be easier for a Trader to see what skills would help him trade. Yes they could just go to the Market and look under Skills and under the relevant category, but thats not intuitive. I didn't discover it until around month 2.

People have and will always adapt. This is Eve. You find a way to survive or you will die. Its as close as you will get to surivial of the most craziest, focused and determined playerbase, than any other game I have ever tried.
Just because Jita dies overnight, is not the end of the world. I give people more credit than that. You cannot blame CCP for Jita falling over, its a sandbox. We are its creators and why can't we also be its destroyers?

Now Cade Windstalker, now that you've criticised my post thoroughly, I challenge you on how would you make my ideas better. I hope that you too can create and not only destroy.
Cade Windstalker
#13 - 2015-04-16 23:56:39 UTC
Zimmer Jones wrote:
My first reaction to this post is "awww, thats so cute!" And it lasted till the end of the post!

Unfortunately, since this is a game for game testers, --you know those people willing to jump in a corner of a game world for days on end to get a possible glitch-- any new mechanic put forward will be abused beyond breaking. Slow steps forward. It will take more than 3 months to even have a small taste of a small facet of eve, and all facets have an effect on how eve rolls.

Sit back and enjoy, skill up and try everything you can, ask questions get as many answers as possible, the correct answer is the one you reach by yourself. F&I is a tough sell, because most here don't like broken stuff, but enjoy breaking stuff.


It is my firm belief that the only people more familiar with edge-case abuse than the Eve devs are Tabletop Game Masters.

Shortly followed by the belief that having these people review all laws passed by any government before implementation would thoroughly eliminate loop-holes.
Cade Windstalker
#14 - 2015-04-17 00:49:18 UTC
Rat Sotken wrote:
Cade Windstalker,
Thank you for your response.
Why is it the automatic response is that High sec would decrease? High sec could double in size. Until its implemented, we'll never know.
If you ask me, if someone left the game for a year, they should not be able to expect that their POS is still there.
A playstyle of visiting one month every year is not a playstyle that should be encouraged. If a player comes back from one year, they should be surprised and excited that there have been many changes since they last logged on. Unless you like to play the game year after year and pop in once a year and notice nothing really has changed, then log out to try another game.

In regards to tinkering with Ice or any fuel component, yes I would agree, every precaution has to be taken, thats a behemoth of a market.


No one nessessarily expects their POS and other items to be there, but that expectation is built into the structures. It's why you tend to see very little in term of material wealth kept in destructible structures. Sometimes players have to leave the game for various reasons. Real life comes first and CCP understands this. It's why we have time-zone based mechanics and the option to get a free day of play-time so you can activate a PLEX on your account instead of having to pay money to re-sub.

It is assumed to be correct that if you give Eve players an exploitable mechanic to screw with other players they'll abuse it into the ground. If you gave the gankers and trolls a way to ring Jita in Null Sec space they'd have it done in a week. Mitanni and the Goons would probably make a full deployment out of it just to show how bad an idea implementing anything like that was.

Regarding Ice and other belts: See, abuse of any remotely abuseable mechanic.

Rat Sotken wrote:
If more players posted buy orders in their home system, and if there was enough momentum, traders would step in to fill the need. 1 Jita hub could be transformed into 20 Rens hubs. Although I will admit, you will always need a central market for those rarer types of goods. It wouldn't make trading easier since I'd have to fly around a lot more. Yes my ideas are centered around my experiences, because thats the only way to base my suggestions off, and I have also tried to keep them as objective as possible.


Yes, but at the end of the day the trade-hubs have grown up organically to fill a need, and people on both sides find it far more convenient to use the established hubs.

Little bit of history here, all of these hubs used to be (and still are in some cases) Mission and Mining hubs. Jita 4-4 used to contain several important agents that pretty much everyone starting Caldari ran through as well as good mining in the system and surrounding area.

Rat Sotken wrote:
Until they have an API for contracts, contracts will only ever be used by the minority. Its fine if you know specifically what you're looking for. But for market trawling, its a pain, you have to know your items and the market.


Contracts are searchable in-game and are not range limited like sell and buy orders. You can find literally any contract in Eve from anywhere in Eve. I would assume there isn't a Contracts API endpoint for the same reason there aren't market API endpoints (all of that data is sourced through client scraping)

Rat Sotken wrote:
Linking Chat Channels, please tell me how to do this. I don't know how to do it. I tried searching and I can't right clink link them.

Thank you for EveBoard, I didn't know it existed.


Open the Channel search window and drag the channel you want to a chat window out of the folders. Generally the channel you want will be under "My Channels" or "Player Channels" I agree though that this could probably be better implemented.

No problem, google is your best friend with Eve, especially if you can think of a resource that would be nice to have but isn't available in-game. If it's possible to have it then someone has probably created it.
Cade Windstalker
#15 - 2015-04-17 00:50:19 UTC
Rat Sotken wrote:
Why is it a terrible mechanic, if your activity in Null affects what you can do?
Yes I know about Incursions, but Incursions don't affect the landscape. They pop up, get farmed and move.
I'm thinking like Drifters and Sleepers. Have a fleet of them, with one of them being a Battleship. Which is essentially unbeatable. If you stay on grid, it will destroy everything except a handful of ships before it moves on. I want it to affect how you view NPC's as easily farmable. I want you to scan a fleet, to see if you can take it on or not. I want you to run because noone can defeat that fleet. Make it like a borg cube, that pumps out little cubes, and are the only ways for a rare loot to drop. You'll never kill the main cube, but you have to do hit and run jobs, while taking an immense pummelling. Maybe even anything less than a Cap will be vaporised. If it is a Cap, it will ramp up its firepower testing the Cap, whereas if you come in anything smaller, it knows it is easy and will wallop it within the first 5 seconds. Have a few of them roaming around in Null. Lol, sorry for the rambling.


For a lot of reasons. Like, I could write an entire book on Game Design and what sort of consequences to actions are good and which aren't. The short of it is that it just doesn't mesh with what Null is about, which is player-generated content and building and destruction. You should be rewarded for living in your space and using it rather than being punished.

Drifters and Sleepers are an event, they will likely not stick around in their current incarnation permanently and they follow rules that allow you to avoid them if you want to.

NPCs are generally easily farmable because one of the things Eve is supposed to create is the feeling that Capsuleers are unto gods compared to the mere mortals flying around through "manual controls" and the like. We have NPC content that is harder but any NPC that is beatable by anything other than sheer luck will eventually become a solved problem or something to be ignored due to lack of perceived value relative to risk or other factors (see: Level 5 missions for a prime example).

At the end of the day Eve is a game about player generated content. Not NPCs randomly showing up and wrecking your ****.

If this is simply a request for harder or more interesting NPCs we're getting there, but see the AI talk from Fanfest for why they aren't just going to rip out the existing AI and make everything into Burner Rats.

Rat Sotken wrote:
Okay, sorry if I wasn't clear about my influence idea. Basically its allowing people at all levels to enjoy bonuses at their home player station. It could be anything. Its just that I see Home station at the moment, is just the cloning base. Used for nothing else. What if you were on grid around your home base, you get a 2% armor buff, or you link the base giving it a targeting sensor bonus or even a layer of ships could literally add more to the shield hp by contributing your own shields to the stations shields.


This is, effectively, a penalty to being anywhere else when you undock. The bonus to having a home station is "this is where my stuff is". Beyond that that's all it's intended to be, a respawn point. When you get a little further into your Eve Career you'll end up with stuff in 5 or 10 or more different stations and your Clone will probably just be somewhere convenient.

Rat Sotken wrote:
Skill Queue. I meant more like the skills are already in the queue, but I want to move like 5 from the bottom all the way to the top. Its a little thing and in this case, just being lazy.


I can appreciate the idea but from my understanding of the underlying code it's more trouble to implement than it's worth.

Rat Sotken wrote:
The way I see it, with the structure review coming, there will be corps who will specialise in providing trade hubs around the universe. An alternative to the standard Empire trade hubs. Just thinking long term that there could be multiple types of this kind of corp, which would confer membership benefits. But I am curious, if another corp wanted me to have access to stuff, how is it done? Jetcan in space, contract in station. When you're running your own market hub, thats very time consuming.


Null already has things like this, generally in the form of a main station for an Alliance. Realistically people aren't going to start trading at player structures in High Sec. The old trade-hubs are just way more convenient.

Rat Sotken wrote:
Market Scanner is more like an introductory tool to get people to see regional pricing. Then if they like it, then they can go to the market websites to pursue it better.

Career Masteries, I'm just saying, now that CCP have got player profiles, they might as well make more use of it. If they know you are a Trader, then it will be easier for a Trader to see what skills would help him trade. Yes they could just go to the Market and look under Skills and under the relevant category, but thats not intuitive. I didn't discover it until around month 2.


There's a skill that lets you view the market orders for an entire region from one station.

There are already career based tutorials and CCP are constantly improving the new-player experience. There are also Certificates that I'm pretty sure are explained and are more useful than the market groups.
Cade Windstalker
#16 - 2015-04-17 00:52:55 UTC
Rat Sotken wrote:
People have and will always adapt. This is Eve. You find a way to survive or you will die. Its as close as you will get to surivial of the most craziest, focused and determined playerbase, than any other game I have ever tried.
Just because Jita dies overnight, is not the end of the world. I give people more credit than that. You cannot blame CCP for Jita falling over, its a sandbox. We are its creators and why can't we also be its destroyers?


Sometimes players adapt by quitting the game. This is a fact of life and it's a very real concern. If you look around CCP's approach of "HTFU" tends to stop at game balance or making drastic changes too quickly. If a player goes and buys up everything in Jita and moves it three jumps over and restarts the market there then CCP and everyone else would laugh their butts off, because that's player driven and doesn't actually wreck anything. Making Jita low-sec on the other hand massively interferes with a ton of people's play-styles for no reason, and that's not a good change.

Rat Sotken wrote:
Now Cade Windstalker, now that you've criticised my post thoroughly, I challenge you on how would you make my ideas better. I hope that you too can create and not only destroy.


No offense here, but I'm not obligated to improve your ideas just because I've critiqued and criticized them. I've been around a long long time and I've seen the same or similar things to what you're suggesting a dozen times before or more. It's not that your ideas are bad so much as they show a fairly new and narrow-minded view of the game that doesn't really encompass the reality of it.

You've discovered the harsh and often crazy nature of Eve, now go discover the players who build something, who spend their entire lives in High Sec just mining rocks for fun, or go off and see the sites with no intent to PvP. Then understand what makes them tick and work them into your Eve world-view.
Zimmer Jones
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-04-17 00:55:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmer Jones
Having been a paid game tester, and a maker of tabletop games, oddly enough I don't read legislation anymore as it is infuriatingly full of intentionally vague clauses and gaping loopholes. Its like having unclosed parentheses (drives me up the wall

Hahaha, doesn't really bother me.
...
)
Dammit

Use the force without consent and the court wont acquit you even if you are a card carryin', robe wearin' Jedi.
Rat Sotken
HC - Redemption
#18 - 2015-04-17 02:07:11 UTC
Thank you, this is proving to be quite enlightening, seriously. Thank you, Cade.

What would you do if there was nowhere to safely store your stuff? If every station was player owned and destructible?

I'm still fresh so even though I have multiple bases around, my bases don't store anything of significance. But I would imagine if you're playing for years, you'd accumulate quite a bit. How would your playstyle change? You would adapt.

I'm actually imagining a world with every station run by Players. No more NPC stations, but NPC's would be housed within friendly Player stations. Maybe some corp could Entosis Jita 4-4 one day. Replace them like they did with POCO's.

I wasn't going to touch on this but as an example I will. I've just started in industry, and I imagine quite a few rare BPO's are in dead accounts. They've left and we don't know when they will be coming back. Anyone in industry would love to get a hold of those rare BPO's and BPC's to make use of them. Anyways, the point is I think it would be good, if all those caches were recycled back into the ecosystem which you just cannot do at the moment.

I appreciate as a long time player you want to preserve your caches and don't want the hassle of moving them. But would you be able to reduce your cache by at least 50% with no noticeable effect on your gameplay? How much of your stuff do you use frequently?

As for the market, we now have CREST which you can download straight from CCP market pricing.

Chat links, lol never noticed that box underneath the search box, Thank you, that will make things a lot easier.

Haha, the resource I want is to track who wants what and of the people who go to Jita, how many could be better served with a more convenient trade hub. That answer is not easy. I'm slowly figuring out models of core products, but it takes time.

I am assuming you are a nullsec dweller. Because you seem to like the null sec status quo as it is. Null sec is meant to be dangerous. If you don't want NPC wreckers, move to Empire. Hmm and possibly my ideas are contradictory. But this is F&I, I'm learning, and I like discussions.

LOL I didn't even know certificates were there. Another thing learned.

Yes maybe you've seen this topic rehashed multiple times, but I would like to think that it is all valuable feedback. And sometimes fresh eyes can balance all the jaded ones.
Cade Windstalker
#19 - 2015-04-17 02:42:10 UTC
Rat Sotken wrote:
Thank you, this is proving to be quite enlightening, seriously. Thank you, Cade.

What would you do if there was nowhere to safely store your stuff? If every station was player owned and destructible?


No problem, I do quite enjoy this sort of thing. I spent 4 years in Eve Uni for a reason... lol.

Honestly, if that were the case I don't think the game in anything like its current form would be viable and I wouldn't play. Risk vs reward only works if the baseline for that is reasonable. CONCORD and High Sec provide a reasonable base-line and that's what's allowed Eve to grow and thrive.

Rat Sotken wrote:
I'm still fresh so even though I have multiple bases around, my bases don't store anything of significance. But I would imagine if you're playing for years, you'd accumulate quite a bit. How would your playstyle change? You would adapt.

I'm actually imagining a world with every station run by Players. No more NPC stations, but NPC's would be housed within friendly Player stations. Maybe some corp could Entosis Jita 4-4 one day. Replace them like they did with POCO's.


One day you too shall look at your Assets tab and go "how the hells did I get a _______ in _______!?!? I don't remember buying that!!!" (bonus points if it's a capital ship, extra bonus points if you stole it from someone while drunk and then forgot)

Too much potential for malicious play, also the economy needs ISK sinks and most of those are provided by NPC services like the market. It's not a case of "one day" someone would Entosis Jita 4-4, it's a case of a race after down-time to see who could do it first, probably also followed by someone setting the taxes ridiculously high or locking the station down all together.

Rat Sotken wrote:
I wasn't going to touch on this but as an example I will. I've just started in industry, and I imagine quite a few rare BPO's are in dead accounts. They've left and we don't know when they will be coming back. Anyone in industry would love to get a hold of those rare BPO's and BPC's to make use of them. Anyways, the point is I think it would be good, if all those caches were recycled back into the ecosystem which you just cannot do at the moment.


Actually T2 BPOs aren't that great for production. If you could get a big cache of them they'd be decent but as things stand they just aren't that profitable and you can almost always make more per unit time using the invention system. I know on the face of it it seems unfair that older players got access to this stuff and you didn't but in reality you *can* actually get this stuff (it's just really expensive) and once you do get it it's just not that useful because CCP do actually know how to balance their game fairly well Blink

Rat Sotken wrote:
I appreciate as a long time player you want to preserve your caches and don't want the hassle of moving them. But would you be able to reduce your cache by at least 50% with no noticeable effect on your gameplay? How much of your stuff do you use frequently?

As for the market, we now have CREST which you can download straight from CCP market pricing.


It's not a case of how much I use, it's a case of dealing with the stuff that's just kind of sitting somewhere because I needed it once and left it there would take me literally days. More in some cases, since some of my stuff is in Low Sec and getting that out requires no small amount of time. Given that for me and most older players the hassle of condensing this stuff or moving it around is *really* not worth it this would not be a popular change because old ships and the like are a significant source of stored value for older players as well as being a starter kit if we have to evac from somewhere without stopping to take more than a pod express...

Actually missed that update to CREST. CCP's policy for a long time was no perfectly up to date buy/sell data. This may actually still be the case, I'm not positive about the rate limit and other restrictions on the relevant API calls.

Rat Sotken wrote:
Chat links, lol never noticed that box underneath the search box, Thank you, that will make things a lot easier.

Haha, the resource I want is to track who wants what and of the people who go to Jita, how many could be better served with a more convenient trade hub. That answer is not easy. I'm slowly figuring out models of core products, but it takes time.


No problem :)

The answer is probably "most of them" but you'd be looking at a lot of hauling to make it happen. Mission systems used to be extremely condensed because a lot of agents just weren't worth using for the majority of players and that's why trade-hubs like Dodixie are also mission hubs even to this day. On the other hand you have a lot of players like me who mission in halfway to no-where high-sec because it's quiet and there's some random level 4 agent I've taken a shine to. Lol
Cade Windstalker
#20 - 2015-04-17 02:51:45 UTC
Rat Sotken wrote:
I am assuming you are a nullsec dweller. Because you seem to like the null sec status quo as it is. Null sec is meant to be dangerous. If you don't want NPC wreckers, move to Empire. Hmm and possibly my ideas are contradictory. But this is F&I, I'm learning, and I like discussions.


Actually I'm probably closest to a high-sec bear in terms of play-style and activities, but I also have a degree in Game Dev IRL so I have opinions on what is and isn't good game design and how that applies to Eve that have nothing to do with my personal play-style. I've actually advocated for nerfs to my play-styles before because I thought they were good design and made the game better or more interesting.

Null is the land of Player Generated Content and that's how it should stay. This can also mean player-generated safety if the players put together something that allows for this within the system. The thing about risk/reward is that the rewards have to be worth the risks or no one does them.

Seriously, look a bit into Level 5 Missions. They were supposed to be CCP's first foray into Group NPC content and they failed spectacularly. They weren't worth the effort for a group compared to everyone individually doing Level 4s. Then people came up with fits that could actually solo-tank them and now that's more or less the only way anyone does them if they do them at all.

Rat Sotken wrote:
LOL I didn't even know certificates were there. Another thing learned.


They're a fun thing, if the tutorial isn't pointing them out maybe that should be fixed? Pretty sure there's a newbie feedback thread around somewhere. Or try the "Little Things" thread.

Rat Sotken wrote:
Yes maybe you've seen this topic rehashed multiple times, but I would like to think that it is all valuable feedback. And sometimes fresh eyes can balance all the jaded ones.


I wouldn't call this one topic exactly, and stuff like the chat linking was actually new to me, but once you hang around the forums for a while you see a lot of patterns crop up. It's one of the reasons the ISDs are so busy locking duplicate threads... Roll

It's just important to note that old does't always mean jaded and things are often the way they are for a reason, though of course not always. A good ground-rule for suggestions in my experience is "does this drastically shift gameplay in some violent fashion? Yes? Then it's probably not going to fly and certainly won't get good responses from the community"
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