EVE General Discussion

It's been a good many years since WoW ... but you are right. Blizzard support is there in support of customers. Not to say CCP has never helped me when something went wrong in the game but the general feeling of ccp support tickets is you are dealing with elitist jerks who dole out actual customer service only when they feel so inclined. Even when they do grand your request they pretty much say "you were lucky this time" which is not a tone I appreciate from people whose salaries I take part in providing.

I dont expect ccp support to be as fast as blizzard, but it would be good if they could be as supportive of their paying customers.

How does CCPs opinion differ? They haven't claimed it's made the game any better either. And it's certainly not opinion that it's lost them income, since they've definitely lost account subs over it. And no, it's nothing like botters.

But there is no difference between someone using round robin and someone using tiled windows. From a server point of view it's indistinguishable, so either they are not banning round robin (which they claim to be) or they are banning legitimate manual multiboxers. You may personally think what you want, but you're wrong.

I'm not struggling with the EULA, I'm pointing out flaws in enforcement. Look mate, I get that most of this is way over your head so seriously just stop digging. You obviously have very little idea what was changed or what the multiboxing tools in question even do. All you are doing is parroting other people and acting like it means something. That flowchart is wrong and that's according to CCP. Whatever you think your reason for linking it is, it's pointless, since it's wrong. It was posted very early in this thread as a quick guide to what the thread was stating and was later discarded as it gave the wrong information in multiple circumstances.

Lol? the EULA does not state that it damages the game, eot does it say that there's been any improvement to the game from removing ISBoxer. In fact, the EULA says exactly the same as what it said when ISBoxer was allowed. And I've not seen botters making that excuse, but that still doesn't make it not true. Are you claiming CCP haven;t lost subs and thus haven't lost income over this? Prove it.

At this point I'm getting the impression you are just a troll.

Obviously you have no experience with what we are talking about here. I'm a developer, I know how software works, I know a heck of a lot about data analysis, and I know how things like ISBoxer operate. There is no way possible for any program not installed on the clients machine to tell the difference between round robin and a tiled window setup. No way at all. It doesn't matter if you record years of data, the commands firing through from the client to the server will be the same. If they had client side detection like many anti-cheat systems, sure, but they don't, so there's simply no way. At most they can make a best guess which will still result in false positives with legitimate players being banned. Worse still, when they ban a legitimate player assuming they are cheating they update their detection profiles making it more likely to catch legitimate players later.

The thing is, you seem to be assuming I'm an ISBoxer user which is why I assume your so hostle. I'm not, I'm a completely manual multiboxer, and I don't want to end up targeted by stupid detection methods because CCP can't be bothered to enforce their rules effectively. My setup is as efficient if not slightly more efficient than any round robin setup, so I'm in that nice chunk of players likely to be banned for no reason.

Lol, troll confirmed. The diagram makes things we KNOW are banned show as legal if you follow it through. I mean not when you follow it through, because when you follow it through you think that global keybinds and voice software are banned too, but when a normal person follows it though. The EULA is the same. According to the EULA most overlay software is banned as is eve-o preview, yet we know for a fact those are not banned.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

Except the change did have a consequence. It led to people who were following the new guideline to get banned, and it led to the banning of a player who was not using broadcasting in any form. Needless =/= no consequence.


Would you have a problem if you won vs a 10-box fleet? Would you have a problem if you and your three friends won vs a 10-box fleet?


I've already talked about this, but I'll repeat. I never said that EVE would die with this change. During the last Fountain War we regularly hit or broke 50k concurrent players. Right now, the maximum 24h from Chribba's website is 35k. When you have players who are living under the threat of being banned for being "too efficient" you start to see players not want to play. When you have devs who regularly refuse to talk to their playerbase, who refuse to use logic and reason with their changes, then you start to see players question why they're playing a game where the devs don't give a damn anymore.



Counter: Just because there's one who we know about who was banned by accident does not mean there are not more.
Do you know me personally? You seem to think you do, despite only ever really seeing me on this one issue. I've been active in a few subforums, and a good portion of the time I was happy with my interactions with the devs. For example, I was semi-active during the Marauder re-balance, and was quite happy with the Bastion Module. I was quite happy with the new Burner missions as well, not to mention the Bowhead. I wasn't happy with the HML nerf, agreed, because I was watching Tengus get sniped by Navy Apocs and achieve near-zero ISK efficiency. I didn't quite agree on the Tengu rebalance, but I understand why CCP did what they did, and I can live with it. So please don't pretend you know who I am.
I've made our points quite clear on the issue of ISBoxer. If you don't want to read it, fine.


I thought so.

Good job I never said the EULA states that. I said read the EULA to understand why I can claim CCP disagrees with your opinion that these EULA enforcements harm the game. You seem to suffer from the same problem as Nolak, where you read one thing and presume the opposite is meant and you accuse me of being the troll. You are right the EULA hasn't changed, you claim to understand it yet seem oblivious to what it actually says. If you want me to explain it to you then just ask.

In your opinion. You don't know what data CCP collects and you don't know what it shows. You are just making wild accusations without a shred of proof and you accuse me of being the troll.

I don't assume anything, I'll leave that sort of behavior to you. I do use ISBoxer. I used it years ago to rat and mine in null and have just recently got back into using to see what all the fuss is about. I have no worries about being caught up in any bannings because I use it in a way which doesn't break the EULA or any other policies. Although that eve-o-preview looks like it might work for me too.


So you don't have a link to a CCP dev saying that diagram is wrong or out-dated. If it was the same group of players claiming that, that have been incorrectly telling other people whats allowed in this thread whilst not doing those things themselves (That is you Lucas). Then I'll make my own mind up. That diagram is a useful if taken in the context it was meant, to help people understand the changes discussed by CCP in this thread. It was not meant to be an all encompassing way of understanding Eve's EULA/TOS or any other policies.

*Snip* Removed a reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

Cutting out all of the utter rubbish not worth a response in that post...

Yes, I do. You could to if you wanted to. Not that CCP can only collect the data your computer sends, therefore if what your computer sends during a round robin and what if sends while playing with tiled windows is the same, you can in fact see that they can't possibly be getting the magical data you think they get.

If you actually understand what a round robin is, it's just pressing a button maually, just swapping clients between presses - exactly the same was what happens when you swap between clients on you screen and press the same button manually.

It's a shame that's irrelevant, since they can't see how you are using it. I guarantee that if you are too efficient you will find yourself banned down the line.

Alas part of CCPs EULA covers you not being allowed to release information about bans so no, you won;t be luring me into breaking the EULA. the thing is though, nothing would satisfy you even if it could be released. You would just assume it's all made up. You've already made it pretty clear that you automatically think anyone who has been banned and done nothing wrong is a liar, and short of recording their historic play sessions, they can't prove otherwise. I really hope you end up on the other side of that situation, then I'll be the one here calling you a cheating liar.

I searched the other forums for your proof and found non. All the people I could find on dual-boxing.com that claimed to be banned unfairly and tried to provide proof were in fact breaking Eve's EULA and those that posted correspondence were told exactly what part they were breaking.

Read Eve's EULA/TOS & other policies.

Why would users of Logitech Gaming Software and Razer Synapse be exempt from the EULA?

I have removed a rule breaking post and those quoting it.

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

If you're meaning, click with the mouse and multiple computers receive that click, that's against the published rules. 'We would like to clarify that it does not matter how Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing are being done, whether through use of software or modified hardware'

If you're meaning a kvm, where you can select which computer the output goes to, but it only interacts with one at a time, that's fine.

1) Some left, many have just modified the way they play and or are using less characters.

2) I love that little quote - I could land on him at anytime with my little fleet and he would have no way of knowing if it was 1 person or 10. He would be guessing and more than likely get it wrong.

3) One year ago, av online per day 39k. Six months, 36k. Three months, 29k. Last month, 25k. A game doesn't have to shutdown to be dead, it just has to continue to see less and less players online. 14K less players per day is not a small number.

4) No-one is asking for the changes to be reverted, we are asking for the changes to be clarified - How efficient can a multi boxer be before he gets banned? If CCP's method of detection leads to the banning of even one innocent player, then it is a bad method of detection.