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Returning-casual-player experiences
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DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#41 - 2015-04-14 20:15:30 UTC
Glathull wrote:
Hmmm, guy shows up here kvetching about skill points. Writes many walls of text. Has much experience with MMOs.


But listen, guys, this is not about him! Absolutely not at all in any way about him! This guy is trying to make the game better for all the millions of buddies he has who would love this game if it weren't for those pesky skills.

Did I get that right?



i understand what he is saying, hes redoing thing as a newbie, and seeing what he thinks are issues. And hearing other newbies say the same thing. But the issue is not with eve. Thats all there actually is. The problem with eve is this, no oher mmo, none, zip, zero, noda, comes even close to what eve does. That is both its greatness and its curse. People who, as i said above, play 'roun around kill stuff with sticks, levle up, now buy a sword and use it perfectly' type games don;t understand that eve is not like that. They think "well a battleship is the biggest ship they got, it should eb able to kill everything, cause in wow my lvl 90 tank coudl own everyone... so thats what i will go get right now!" But thats not even close to how it works.

The only way eve will ever be main stream is a complete redesign to be more in line with a traditional mmo. This will have the effect of killing what makes eve great.

or if everyoen who tried eve has this mental shift from "this is a game" to "this is a game but i have to play it like its real life"

Every game that is not a traditional mmo and has lvls and skill points will have this problem. I think its why the game that shall not be named seems to be working away from sp's. But that too will have issues as people shift to new thinkings.

Anyway.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2015-04-14 20:32:05 UTC
IMO EvE is the most casual friendly game I played so far ... because it let my char progress without being logged in, the parallel universe of New Eden and its stories exist without me. There is no regrets not being able to play, it keeps things interesting and there is always the forum. Blink

Though what I have to admit is, that I probably skipped some frustration by starting real PvP not before I was competitive with one hull in-game skill-wise a couple of months in the game. But I had fun before doing missions and the arcs, exploration, mining gas in WH etc. The scripted activities can easily keep you busy for the time it needs to train up your PvP skills if you are new to the game.

The skill-gap .... you definitely can do a lot of things quite well without much skill training, level 3 is accomplished in no time. But limited skills certainly restrict your ability to succesful solo PvP, regardless of your RL skills. So you have to join a group or bring some skill discipline (focus on one hull) and patience. Again casual players are in good shape here, because they skill faster in relation to their playtime, IMO.

I'm my own NPC alt.
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#43 - 2015-04-14 21:15:57 UTC
Afrigael Hax wrote:
Wall of misery...

Yeow...

Everyone here has more patience than I do. Not reading that wall of non existent paragraphs. But just glancing through it I see a huge whine...

I hope you're quitting...soon...
Afrigael Hax
Doomheim
#44 - 2015-04-14 23:08:51 UTC
BrundleMeth wrote:
Afrigael Hax wrote:
Wall of misery...

Yeow...

Everyone here has more patience than I do. Not reading that wall of non existent paragraphs. But just glancing through it I see a huge whine...

I hope you're quitting...soon...



Feel like a bigger man now do ya? all you ever do is bitchy remarks ...sad
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#45 - 2015-04-14 23:32:34 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Glathull wrote:
Hmmm, guy shows up here kvetching about skill points. Writes many walls of text. Has much experience with MMOs.


But listen, guys, this is not about him! Absolutely not at all in any way about him! This guy is trying to make the game better for all the millions of buddies he has who would love this game if it weren't for those pesky skills.

Did I get that right?



i understand what he is saying, hes redoing thing as a newbie, and seeing what he thinks are issues. And hearing other newbies say the same thing. But the issue is not with eve. Thats all there actually is. The problem with eve is this, no oher mmo, none, zip, zero, noda, comes even close to what eve does. That is both its greatness and its curse. People who, as i said above, play 'roun around kill stuff with sticks, levle up, now buy a sword and use it perfectly' type games don;t understand that eve is not like that. They think "well a battleship is the biggest ship they got, it should eb able to kill everything, cause in wow my lvl 90 tank coudl own everyone... so thats what i will go get right now!" But thats not even close to how it works.

The only way eve will ever be main stream is a complete redesign to be more in line with a traditional mmo. This will have the effect of killing what makes eve great.

or if everyoen who tried eve has this mental shift from "this is a game" to "this is a game but i have to play it like its real life"

Every game that is not a traditional mmo and has lvls and skill points will have this problem. I think its why the game that shall not be named seems to be working away from sp's. But that too will have issues as people shift to new thinkings.

Anyway.


I understood what he was saying too. I just thought he was being a whiney, disingenuous b**** about it. :)

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Afrigael Hax
Doomheim
#46 - 2015-04-15 00:40:24 UTC
.[/quote]

I understood what he was saying too. I just thought he was being a whiney, disingenuous b**** about it. :)
[/quote]


fair enough .. I'm not really a man of words .. and I probably was being a whiney bastard
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#47 - 2015-04-15 00:46:51 UTC
I made a little doll of Gary Gygax that I stab pins into whenever I see threads like this.
Unfortunately I believe he is beyond my reach.
WTB services of an evil cleric of at least 14th level.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#48 - 2015-04-15 04:01:45 UTC
SIrera Artrald wrote:
Afrigael Hax wrote:

In my case I'm lucky if I get to play for a few hours late in the evening when my kids are in bed and my wife is watching some stupid film about mermaids or whatever.



Tell your wife I'm sorry. In your case I think you'd be lucky if she didn't run for the hills. Maybe spend less time trying to get away from her to play a video game and more time with this person you've, you know, married, you might even discover you have a few common interests.



As long as she knows where the kitchen is I don't see a problem.
Wobblypops
Doomheim
#49 - 2015-04-15 04:03:13 UTC
I see what you're saying and I agree with you Afrigael Hax but you're going to be bombarded buy all the **** riders in this forum.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#50 - 2015-04-15 04:03:13 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
1) there is no skill gap problem. This is what people who come here form Wow and other games with the wrong mind set think. Skill points mean nothing in eve. You get a little advantage in some things, but honestly not a whole lot.



Yeah, I was flying an Ishtar on my first day. Oh wait......
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#51 - 2015-04-15 05:54:20 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
1) there is no skill gap problem. This is what people who come here form Wow and other games with the wrong mind set think. Skill points mean nothing in eve. You get a little advantage in some things, but honestly not a whole lot.

Yeah, I was flying an Ishtar on my first day. Oh wait......

Fun fact: on your first day, you can fly a ship that will make Ishtars cry.
Vorll Minaaran
Centre Of Attention
#52 - 2015-04-15 06:26:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Vorll Minaaran
Quote:
Afrigael Hax wrote:
Also I didn't realise that the vast majority of you actively don't want new players in the game.


We all love to have more new players. More players=more content. But we dont need players who dont "get EVE" and want to change our game to another copy of WoW. Most players coming with this mindset wouldnt create content, they would be the content and then ganked, scammed and leaving in rage.

Bittervets saw these "proposals" countless times and reacting more aggressively when the million+1st thread comes.
Like this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=256960

Storytime:
When my brother and I started playing MMOs, we decide to try out different games. He started to play WoW I started to play EVE. We lived in the same flat that time, and watched the other playing. I did the old tutorials, mined ore, did lvl1-lvl2 missions. On my second day in EVE, he asked me to make a char for him and on his 5th day of WoW he left WoW forever and came to EVE. We are both here since.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#53 - 2015-04-15 08:05:22 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
And to the person who said 'well if ccp had a million subs they'd have to shard' i'm not sure thats true. eve can prolly handle 1m subs, hell its peak was at 65k at one time and they had around 400k subs and it was still holding its own. 1m subs would net ccp around 200m a year, which is more then enough to toss into making huge updates to the code (not the hardware, eve's limiting factor is the unscalable sections of the old code) and it will be fine.
That would be me, I wasn't referring to subs, I was referring to actual people playing the game at the same time.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#54 - 2015-04-15 08:25:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
And to the person who said 'well if ccp had a million subs they'd have to shard' i'm not sure thats true. eve can prolly handle 1m subs, hell its peak was at 65k at one time and they had around 400k subs and it was still holding its own. 1m subs would net ccp around 200m a year, which is more then enough to toss into making huge updates to the code (not the hardware, eve's limiting factor is the unscalable sections of the old code) and it will be fine.
That would be me, I wasn't referring to subs, I was referring to actual people playing the game at the same time.

Well ..... let's be honest here. I remember a dev saying what I am thinking as well.

If they had a sudden, unforeseen major success and a few 100k people subscribe ...
... and stay ...
... then they'd be in deep trouble. *snickers xD*

The worst nightmare is a sudden jump in subscription numbers ...
... because even though the hardware can hold quite a few people per system ...
... the fact that nodes have several systems can cause lots of trouble.

New/more hardware would be needed FAST!
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Vorll Minaaran
Centre Of Attention
#55 - 2015-04-15 08:37:23 UTC
Eve Solecist wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
And to the person who said 'well if ccp had a million subs they'd have to shard' i'm not sure thats true. eve can prolly handle 1m subs, hell its peak was at 65k at one time and they had around 400k subs and it was still holding its own. 1m subs would net ccp around 200m a year, which is more then enough to toss into making huge updates to the code (not the hardware, eve's limiting factor is the unscalable sections of the old code) and it will be fine.
That would be me, I wasn't referring to subs, I was referring to actual people playing the game at the same time.

Well ..... let's be honest here. I remember a dev saying what I am thinking as well.

If they had a sudden, unforeseen major success and a few 100k people subscribe ...
... and stay ...
... then they'd be in deep trouble. *snickers xD*

The worst nightmare is a sudden jump in subscription numbers ...
... because even though the hardware can hold quite a few people per system ...
... the fact that nodes have several systems can cause lots of trouble.

New/more hardware would be needed FAST!


This unlikely situation wouldnt that bad. In 2011 CCP Yokai wrote about EVE capabilities, should be way better now.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4862063#post4862063
Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#56 - 2015-04-15 08:50:22 UTC
I'll share one of my n00b moments with you lot. For some reason they're still quite vivid in my memory.

On day 1 I was a miner. Something bad happened to me that day , but that's not relevant to this discussion. While flying back to station to grab my Badger to pick up the containers of Veldspar, I saw a very cool looking ship on the undock. It looked industrial, big and very effective. I had no idea what it was so I used a tactic I read on the forum: "When in doubt, right-click".

It was a Hulk.

So what does Yarda n00b do ?

a) Cry, whine and get depressed about not being able to buy the ship, let alone fly it?

b) Come up with a plan to get into a Hulk?

Since I'm here, the answer is clear ofcourse, but I hope the point is made. That Hulk undocking the moment I flew to station was a content generator. Not willingly (as miners usually aren't willing content creators), but he/she provided me with a goal right then and there. For the next months, I kept mining and got an Osprey, Retriever and eventually a Hulk.
At which point a new plan was needed. So I flew a Retriever into Fountain for my first 0.0 experience in a corp there. But that's another (explosive) story.

EVE requires you to come up with your own narrative, plans and goals. People that can't do that and/or feel there's some "proper way" of playing instead of just playing, wont stay.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#57 - 2015-04-15 08:56:27 UTC
Thanks Voril ... but why did you link to a post which links there ...
... instead of linking there directly? xD

Will check up on it. :)
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#58 - 2015-04-15 09:01:57 UTC
All that infkrmation is outdated.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Vorll Minaaran
Centre Of Attention
#59 - 2015-04-15 09:21:10 UTC
Eve Solecist wrote:
All that infkrmation is outdated.


On linking: sorry, I was too lazy. Cool

Old info, yes, but there is no actual one from CCP.
It was long before of the recent code refactoring efforts, TQ got new hardware since then, so we should assume it is better now.
I think those blades were on the Fanfest Acution.

BTW, if any CCP Virtual World Operations team member read it, pls give us actual info. Blink
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#60 - 2015-04-15 09:26:38 UTC
I think perhaps you should pass on Eve and save those subscription fees for a remedial English class, mate. I struggled valiantly but half of that didn't parse at all and the other half read like you just smoked more crack than the typical human heart can handle.