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Mass Disconnect - 16:35 12/04/2015

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Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#81 - 2015-04-14 08:17:12 UTC
Ecklectrix wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
The contract between you and CCP says "Upon establishing a valid Account, and subject to your continued compliance with the EULA, CCP grants you a limited, non-exclusive, revocable license to access the System" and "CCP is not responsible for your access to the Internet"

In other words, the contract says you can access their system provided you have insured there is an internet connection between you and the system.



It also states, that my plex or cash subscription, is valid for 30 days.

Let me just ask the question from CCP's perspective then. If I fail to pay my subscription because the bank was closed for a few days and I couldn't access my money, or my credit card was faulty or some other fault that is NOT my own, would CCP give me 4 days of free play time? The answer is no, they would unsub my account until I paid for the service as per the contract agreement.

Why then is it ok for CCP to not provide the service for the stated period of 30 days? That's a rhetorical question, it's not ok.

CCP Can easily grant 4 additional days, or a plex amount equal to 4 days worth based on current plex per dollar prices, or grant other in game assetts that essentially cost them nothing but make restitution for their breach of contract.

CCP will ban you the second you don't adhere to their EULA, why do you seem to think the EULA is a one way contract? It is not, and CCP not only can, but need to be held to the same standards they impose on the players.

EULA is a Standard form contract

Offer - The EULA describes the terms and conditions under which you may (i) use the Software; (ii) subscribe to, access and use EVE Online

Consideration - Upon establishing a new Account, you will be entitled to play EVE for a stated period of time (not to exceed thirty (30) days) without paying a subscription fee (the "Trial Period"). If your Account is not terminated in accordance with the procedures set forth below within the stated Trial Period, you will be charged the subscription fees as described during the registration process when you established your Account. (ie exchange cash for a service)

Acceptance - Accept EULA, download client, Buy plex, start playing.

So, I still see no response from CCP Falcon as to how they intend to make whole those that were unable to access their accounts due to the DDOS attacks.


Because it's you're responsibility to ensure your connection works, not CCPs. As long as the servers remain open to outside connections then CCP is fulfilling its end of the agreement, connection issues involving things outside their network are none of their concern.

Look at it this way, if your connection had worked during the time in question would you have been able to log in and play the game? If the answer is yes, which I know it was because half the playerbase didn't get disconnected, then CCP has fulfilled their obligations and you havent got a leg to stand on.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#82 - 2015-04-14 08:17:46 UTC
Ecklectrix wrote:
QQ moar!


what you failed to realize is that, if CCP starts to give any kind of compensation because of this incident, the script kiddies who are doing this criminal act will be having even more reason to do this, yeah?

Just Add Water
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#83 - 2015-04-14 08:29:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Ecklectrix wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
The contract between you and CCP says "Upon establishing a valid Account, and subject to your continued compliance with the EULA, CCP grants you a limited, non-exclusive, revocable license to access the System" and "CCP is not responsible for your access to the Internet"

In other words, the contract says you can access their system provided you have insured there is an internet connection between you and the system.



It also states, that my plex or cash subscription, is valid for 30 days.

Let me just ask the question from CCP's perspective then. If I fail to pay my subscription because the bank was closed for a few days and I couldn't access my money, or my credit card was faulty or some other fault that is NOT my own, would CCP give me 4 days of free play time? The answer is no, they would unsub my account until I paid for the service as per the contract agreement.

Why then is it ok for CCP to not provide the service for the stated period of 30 days? That's a rhetorical question, it's not ok.

CCP Can easily grant 4 additional days, or a plex amount equal to 4 days worth based on current plex per dollar prices, or grant other in game assetts that essentially cost them nothing but make restitution for their breach of contract.

CCP will ban you the second you don't adhere to their EULA, why do you seem to think the EULA is a one way contract? It is not, and CCP not only can, but need to be held to the same standards they impose on the players.

EULA is a Standard form contract

Offer - The EULA describes the terms and conditions under which you may (i) use the Software; (ii) subscribe to, access and use EVE Online

Consideration - Upon establishing a new Account, you will be entitled to play EVE for a stated period of time (not to exceed thirty (30) days) without paying a subscription fee (the "Trial Period"). If your Account is not terminated in accordance with the procedures set forth below within the stated Trial Period, you will be charged the subscription fees as described during the registration process when you established your Account. (ie exchange cash for a service)

Acceptance - Accept EULA, download client, Buy plex, start playing.

So, I still see no response from CCP Falcon as to how they intend to make whole those that were unable to access their accounts due to the DDOS attacks.



would you agree to have 4 free days game time but remove 4 days of training from your account to compensate? im sure if ccp had an severe issue from their end then you would be compensated, i mean they reimburse plenty of ships and pods due to technical issues.

maybe you should go on twitter and shout at lizard squad or whoever the fck done it and tell them you demand answers to this scam, im sure they like tears as much as the eve players

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Ecklectrix
#84 - 2015-04-14 08:38:15 UTC
Darek Castigatus wrote:
Because it's you're responsibility to ensure your connection works, not CCPs. As long as the servers remain open to outside connections then CCP is fulfilling its end of the agreement, connection issues involving things outside their network are none of their concern.

Look at it this way, if your connection had worked during the time in question would you have been able to log in and play the game? If the answer is yes, which I know it was because half the playerbase didn't get disconnected, then CCP has fulfilled their obligations and you havent got a leg to stand on.


My connection was working fine, it was just my connection to the EVE server that was being affected. So, you're telling me the objective of a "denial of service" is not denying service of the EVE cluster? Interesting, why is it it's called a denial of service, and not a clientside attack, or something else? Because it is denying SERVICE...by definition. Service is not my responsibility, access is, and my internet access to anything else was completely unaffected. Again, another argument that attempts to blame the customer.

"#Falcon_Punch" Justifying Bullying by CCP Staff since it's inception.

Exhibit A
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#85 - 2015-04-14 08:59:25 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Ecklectrix wrote:

My connection was working fine, it was just my connection to the EVE server that was being affected. So, you're telling me the objective of a "denial of service" is not denying service of the EVE cluster? Interesting, why is it it's called a denial of service, and not a clientside attack, or something else? Because it is denying SERVICE...by definition. Service is not my responsibility, access is, and my internet access to anything else was completely unaffected. Again, another argument that attempts to blame the customer.


*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

you should actually be very thankful that the only thing being affected by this attack is your connection to EvE and not everything else because they're targeting somebody else and not you.

Just Add Water
Garmyne Atavuli
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2015-04-14 09:28:28 UTC
*reaches for the popcorn*
Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
#87 - 2015-04-14 09:32:13 UTC
Calm down people. DDoS is just part of the meta.
Hector Skunk
Highsecberg.
#88 - 2015-04-14 09:33:29 UTC
May I? The best course of action is to ignore such individuals because that's what ticks them off the most. When no one shows interest for their silly demands they will explode inside and that's what you should be aiming for.

I am Hector Skunk. - "Tisiphone Dira > I feel bullied."
Garmyne Atavuli
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2015-04-14 09:41:59 UTC
Hector Skunk wrote:
May I? The best course of action is to ignore such individuals because that's what ticks them off the most. When no one shows interest for their silly demands they will explode inside and that's what you should be aiming for.


Aww., dont spoil it.
Your just like my missus, i'm sat there watching a good film and she just sits down and turns the t.v channel over.
Now I've got to look at ponys and rainbows. Straight
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#90 - 2015-04-14 10:11:17 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
3. Ranting is prohibited.

A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counter productive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.

4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#91 - 2015-04-14 10:33:32 UTC
ISD Ezwal wrote:
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
3. Ranting is prohibited.

A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counter productive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.

4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.



petition to close this thread please. thank you.

Just Add Water
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#92 - 2015-04-14 10:35:22 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:
ISD Ezwal wrote:
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
3. Ranting is prohibited.

A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counter productive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.

4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.



petition to close this thread please. thank you.


+1

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#93 - 2015-04-14 11:12:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
You have to request it politely via the flag ...
... and should provide reason for the ISD to grant your request.

You have my Like and coming deserved ban as well.
I had enough of this anyway.

People say CODE publicly chestbeats about DDoSing the servers,
there's someone who deliberately does not respond when i ask about it
and then there is this crap that smells so much like metagaming it stinks to the roof.

It's completely nuts.
Nuts!

I'm outta here.

Enjoy the silence, ISD Ezwal. :)
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Ecklectrix
#94 - 2015-04-14 11:20:13 UTC
Darek Castigatus wrote:
Look at it this way, if your connection had worked during the time in question would you have been able to log in and play the game? If the answer is yes, which I know it was because half the playerbase didn't get disconnected, then CCP has fulfilled their obligations and you havent got a leg to stand on.


My connection did work.
I had internet connection to other games, email, banking, everything except eve.
Eve connects via the eve download content client - my connection was being refused by the client - programmed by CCP, connecting to CCP servers, this is their issue not mine.

Large groups of areas were disconnected, it certainly wasn't isolated to my connection.
Whether this is a routing issue then this just means CCP needs to put in place alternate routes in cases of DDOS.

Anyhow, the why and where are irrelevant, they are distractions - all that is important is the sollution

"#Falcon_Punch" Justifying Bullying by CCP Staff since it's inception.

Exhibit A
Jenshae Chiroptera
#95 - 2015-04-14 11:58:39 UTC
Ecklectrix wrote:
blah
You are wrong.
Move on to the next storm in a tea cup, please.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Ecklectrix
#96 - 2015-04-14 12:13:48 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
You are wrong.
Move on to the next storm in a tea cup, please.


That sounds like your opinion, and I choose not to accept it. Subjective.

I resent your "storm in a tea cup" comment, as it suggests my money and consumer rights are unimportant. Again, subjective.
It isnt the first time that CCP ignores it's obligations contractually to the consumers.

If CCP "whoever" wishes to actually provide information to people why they consider they should not provide compensation and justify that with evidence and facts about where exactly the problem occurred and who should be held responsible that would be nice, but it seems paying customers do not merit an explanation from the gods.

Again, showing CCP has a non-communication policy with the player base (yes that's right, players pay money up-front to play).

If I just had some details from CCP I could make informed decisions about exactly who is at fault.

Unfortunately, you all seem to think that you can speak for CCP, you can't, you are speculating as to who, how, why and where as much as anyone else is because you lack the information.

CCP needs advise on their intentions regarding compensation of lost time and or items caused by the loss of connection to paying customers.



"#Falcon_Punch" Justifying Bullying by CCP Staff since it's inception.

Exhibit A
Lion Arthie
Doomheim
#97 - 2015-04-14 12:32:04 UTC
Greetings all o/


Thanks to the guy who has posted that link previously in this thread (https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc722931.aspx). Being a techy noob, I understood the situation abit more. And now that this issue is known as being DDoS, let us work collectively with CCP to figure out possible solutions.

In the linked article, the author P.Robichaux points out that the most common way to make a DDoS attack is by using 'Trojan horse', which by his definition is "an innocuous-looking but secretly malicious program that unsuspecting people will run" (read from the link for further information).

See, I am not at all familiar with the techy stuffs/processes going on in the background on networks/internet etc., and while assuming that the programmers at CCP Hq have the required skills to detect 'trojan horse' codes, I propose this:

that CCP have a piece of code implemented in the core of all susbcribers client (or in the Launcher) which will detect the remote triggering of such 'trojan horse' from unsuspecting pc/mac, point it out to the user and block it from harming the Eve network. I suppose 3rd party antivirus/firewall softwares would do that already, but some of those entities may as well be the source of the problem. I also suppose this has already been implemented before. But, oh well, I am trying to find solutions.

Roll

Flysafe o/
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#98 - 2015-04-14 12:33:25 UTC
Ecklectrix wrote:


If I just had some details from CCP I could make informed decisions about exactly who is at fault.




Honestly, what it is so hard to understand? the OP of CCP Falcon is clear as the sun.

CCP Falcon wrote:

UPDATE - 12/04/2015 - 17:13

After extensive investigation, we've been able to confirm that the connection issues experienced by players over the last few days have been caused by a series of DDoS attacks targeted at Tranquility.

Tranquility is perfectly healthy and is running fine, however we're currently working on resolving the situation, and the network issues that the attacks are causing.

We apologize for any interruption that the connection issues caused by these incidents are causing to your gameplay.


There was or is a series of DDoS attack.

The ones at fault are the script kiddies doing this, they are to blame - the culprit, the criminals (atleast in my country they are)!

and like any other criminals they hide, so it's not easy for them to be caught.

Just Add Water
Jenshae Chiroptera
#99 - 2015-04-14 12:33:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Ecklectrix wrote:
Unfortunately, you all seem to think that you can speak for CCP, you can't, you are speculating as to who, how, why and where as much as anyone else is because you lack the information.
Here are the facts as stated by a member of CCP
- They had a DDoS attack
- YOUR ability to connect to their servers was disrupted.

It was a rather minor disruption and your demands create more work than it is worth implementing. If CCP takes your minority over the top whining seriously they open a door of precidents where they will be falling over themselves to wipe noses to the point they will end up writing personal letters of apology because down time took one minute longer than scheduled. Roll

Get over yourself.


Lion Arthie wrote:
that CCP have a piece of code implemented in the core of all susbcribers client (or in the Launcher) which will detect the remote triggering of such 'trojan horse' from unsuspecting pc/mac, point it out to the user and block it from harming the Eve network. I suppose 3rd party antivirus/firewall softwares would do that already, but some of those entities may as well be the source of the problem. I also suppose this has already been implemented before. But, oh well, I am trying to find solutions.
The attacks will be coming from a bot-net, this is a wide range of personal computers running substandard anti-virus and malware programs or in some cases the programs can not be detected yet.
The trojan program was frequently spread via people opening spam e-mails with attachments.
It is more frequent for the code to be injected into your computer via dodgy websites these days.

This means that computers that are infected and used in this bot-net are well beyond the reach of CCP's launcher for EVE.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Ecklectrix
#100 - 2015-04-14 12:44:01 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Ecklectrix wrote:
Unfortunately, you all seem to think that you can speak for CCP, you can't, you are speculating as to who, how, why and where as much as anyone else is because you lack the information.
Here are the facts as stated by a member of CCP
- They had a DDoS attack
- YOUR ability to connect to their servers was disrupted.

It was a rather minor disruption and your demands create more work than it is worth implementing. If CCP takes your minority over the top whining seriously they open a door of precidents where they will be falling over themselves to wipe noses to the point they will end up writing personal letters of apology because down time took one minute longer than scheduled. Roll

Get over yourself.



I'm quite sick of your personal attacks. Nowhere have I name called, or personally attacked you. Keep it civil.
I am just as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours.
The explanation from CCP Falcon in no way takes responsibility for providing a service away from CCP.

In fact Falcon stated that they were "working on the network issues this is causing" so therefore there was action they could take to resolve the denial of service - it is not something I can do, in fact the EULA prohibits me from altering the client to change its routing.

At the end of the day, you keep talking as though you have some authority over me, perhaps one should look in the mirror before telling others to get over themselves.

Where did I ever complain about prolonged downtime? Where did I ever make it a bigger deal than what it is?
DDOS Happened, service was denied to thousands of users.
I'm not asking for hand holding, nor nose wiping - those are not part of the contract between me and CCP.
Service for money - now thats part of the complaint. And nice false equivalency argument there, 1 minute of prolonged downtime, versus 4+ days of unable to connect. The two are hardly on par with each other. Again, your opinion that it is not important is subjective, had CCP Whoever bothered to respond, they could have by now and I'd have nothing more to keep asking for.

"#Falcon_Punch" Justifying Bullying by CCP Staff since it's inception.

Exhibit A