Assembly Hall

^ This.

Another example;
You see that ship you are flying? It does not actually exist according to the server. All the server sees is a sphere. Your ship literally has no front or back until you move.
So whatever "direction" your ship visually has is nothing more than an approxamation (sometimes not even that in the case of big ship as they will often warp "sideways")... so you cannot always rely on visual ques to know where you are heading.


As for seeing a margin scam... it's pretty easy. Just cross reference the prices on EVE Central... or look for historical trends on the ingame market window (no history is a red flag)

Most importantly, if it looks like you will be able to make ANY significantly high margin (more than 5%) by buying and selling in the same station... it is probably a scam.

I would love to understand why I am being attacked for trying to get something done about the margin trading scam or FRAUD as the case may be. Whether I was scammed or not it does not matter whatsoever. I really do not understand the way a faction of eve players value FRAUD. You can try to divide and conquer me all you want. I will not back down on this issue. When a buy order is up and has a price. The toon or corp. which placed that buy order should pay. They should pay by losing isk or loss of standings or loss of skill points to the margin trading skill. In RL there are severe penalties for margin trading fraud. In eve there is no risk for doing so whatsoever. No risk to cheat the market and the newbs. To me that is unacceptable. I really find it horrendous that we have people in this forum that want nothing to do with fixing a scamming/fraud problem. There is something so blatant in this thread that needs to be looked at. Oh this guy is butt hurt cause he got scammed. No, I didn't get scammed. It was pure and simple Fraud. Fraud is not acceptable in any known market except in EVE. That is a problem.

I am asking an begging any CSM member who reads this to please look at this problem. Look at it closely and understand that its the client that needs to be fixed. I don't want the margin trade skill gone. I believe it is good for the game. The eve client needs to represent truth.

Because "fraud" is in the eye of the beholder.

From my perspective... you are removing money from people with more greed and money than intelligence. And you gain intelligence through experience. And you gain experience by going through the situation it yourself.
And then you realize that the "horrible thing" that happened to you actually made you think, act, and behave smarter. Because there is always another such "horrible thing" around the corner.

(for disclosure: I fell for the Margin Scam early in my EVE life... I now look VERY closely at anything I buy and sell rather than "right-click, done")


This isn't real life.

The context of EVE is a dystopia.
It's not meant to "work right" or be "fair." It's meant to be an exercise in Darwinism. And the market is probably the closest you will ever get to a "pure" libertarian market model... which expresses that Darwinism mantra very well.

I mean seriously... the game is full of Megacorporations and empires stripmine "lush and verdant moons" to construct massive supercapital ships... sometimes with slave labor... to wipe out hundreds of thousands of ships in single engagements... each ship with crews numbering from the dozens to the thousands... all the while rival factions within each Megacorporation and empire send in pirates to shoot and assassinate at each other... or commandeer one of the aforementioned supercapitals and pile drive it into a station to destroy any chance of peace talks... while another faction simply goes out hunting for victims on the spacelanes and literally drain their bodies of blood for ritual sacrifices... and you, the mighty immortal... a being given power through implants that are not even designed for your physiology... a being that is designed to wage war, conflict, and amass wealth in the hopes you will work on behalf of your empire... slaughter all of them wholesale... before making a mistake and losing several thousand of your crew... whose families will never be notified or paid any compensation... because **** you, you have more important matters to look into... like buying a new battleship...
*breathes*


Oh... there is a risk. There is ALWAYS a risk.
However that risk is dependent on other players actually understanding what it is you are doing. And most people don't have a mind for economics... much less economics with few rules or restrictions.

But yeah... there ARE ways to throw a wrench into a market manipulator's plans. And there ARE ways you can screw over a margin scammer. You just have to understand the rules and toss any RL notions of "morality" or "ethics"...
... which, frankly, have no place in a game. All that matters are the "rules" and "spirit" of the game, in the context of the game itself.


We'll agree to disagree here. Some of the best stories of EVE are where one person screws over a whole mass of people. Or a whole mass of people burn everything "just cause."

Examples:

The end of BOB
The end of Goonswarm v1
The EVE Intergalactic Bank scam
Socratic's downfall
The first Revenant kill
Goonswarm Ice Interdiction
Hulk-a-geddon
POS-a-geddon



The game needs less "free intel" and give more opportunities for people to scam and cause more conflict. Because conflict is FUN!!

Scams are fraud, so yes, you got scammed. That you keep ranting without sharing the juicy details of the story makes me think we're talking in excess of 10 billion.

Any chance of the scammer coming forward and telling this riveting tale?

I feel like your head would explode if you knew about fractional reserve banking irl...

The real world revolves around margin stuff just like Eve does. For traders it's nice not to have 30% of your capital tied to orders that might not fill for weeks.

If you do 30 seconds of research, you'll see that it's probably a scam of some sort.

Then you're mad about not having any repercussions, well there's nobody stopping you from hiring a merc to deal with the person. You could just as easily go after them yourself.

CCP won't do anything about this "broken" mechanic because there is nothing broken about it.

I took the liberty of fixing your post.

And the continuation of climbing the ladder begins again....

Hand up everyone in this thread who personally discussed this issue with CCP Rise face to face and can therefore claim equal understanding of his intent

Anyone...?


Bueller? Anyone?

Cmon keep attacking me. When there is smoke there is fire.

As it seems not many in this thread like what I am trying to do. The basic, mere basic of risk is one sided on this issue. When I say one sided I mean there is 0 risk for the buyer when done correctly. 0 risk for the buyer. His name isn't given out, he is protected. No one knows who he is. There can be no retaliation against him. He is more protected than anyone else in this game. Call me greedy all you want but the guys doing the buy orders with ultimate protection are just as greedy as anyone else in this game. The Buyer has 0 risk against them. The person many of you are defending has no risk in this game. We all talk a good game about risk but risk should go both ways. I want to know who is screwing me over when I get screwed over. If this is market pvp then I want it like ship pvp. I want to know who didn't take the order. Who took their money out of their wallet. If you lose your ship I guarantee you are looking at that combat log. Looking to see who killed you. I bet that combat log has the names of those who just shot you. Well the guys who sell to these buyers don't get that. Don't start with the sellers because that is a different toon that does that. We know the names of the toons we buy from. If a buy order is issued whether it goes through or not you should at least get the name of the toon. That would be risk on the buyers part. I would be happy if they had at least some risk in this game instead of being fully protected and anonymous.