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"You need 10 active members in a c1" - I disagree

Author
Freekytoes
Black Powder Ballistics
Hole Control
#1 - 2015-04-13 15:50:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Freekytoes
I've been living in various wormholes with two accounts. Two mains and two scanner/PI alts. I'm currently in a C1 and doing just fine. There seems to be a lot of focus around number of combat/data/relic sites but I think folks are missing a LOT of income streams. I'm coming from a 99% PVE perspective while many of the comments/posts come from a PVP perspectives.

I've been a wormholer for over a year.

Let's look at this from a dedicated industrialist:

1. PI. It is a pain in the butt to maintain and people that aren't familiar with it often leave a lot of isk on the table. They try to make robotics on one planet, rocket fuel on another, coolant, etc.. You just cut your profit in half and made your life hell with imbalanced resources. Between my 4 toons, I can run 16 planets with not much skill requirements. I have 1 factory planet (where I run advanced factories). All other are just basics. It lets the harvesters off the chain and I can pull massive amounts of raw/basic. With buy orders in ice belt regions, fuel costs are no where near the hit of Jita hauling blocks. Between that and PI, my fuel is "cheap". Talk to the POCO owners. Most will work with you on a tax rate (can usually talk them into 5%).

2. Research arrays. You need to be cranking out and researching blueprints. If i don't have at least 10 jobs running in the ME/TE/Copy/Invention, that's a personal fail. Hint: Tech II bpc's can be sold outside of Jita. Join the blueprints channel. You can work out a steady buyer.

3. Cloaky Tengu mobile depot multi-fit tengu of dealh blah blah is not needed and is WAY overkill. A tech II frigate is fully capable of running anything that a C1 has to give. One or two combat sites or a decent relic and you are in the green. Anything else is gravy.

4. A tower in a C1 HS static is cheaper to run than a tower in HS.

5. Gas. It's not limited to how much you pull from your hole and the surrounding. There is a time value to money. More often than not you can turn out buy order gas and process it for a 20% profit. With a medium tower, yes, you have to shut off all your arrays to run the cycles but Meh, life doesn't end. Grab a giant secure container and keep going.

6. Manage access/mine away. Crash everything but your HS static. Put your second account cloaked orbit at 20, fire up netflix and mine Bistot for that sweet, sweet zydrine.

7. Oh yeah, combat sites.. Gravy.

Summary:
Putting up a tower in a C1 is WAY cheaper than k-space, much safer ( (wardecs are a memory) and a heck of a lot more profitable. My wallet is Billions with 300 million in buy orders outstanding. If you halfxxx the specific industries, you will lose. Don't just "do some PI", LEARN to do PI (etc). Work your income streams. Most of mine is passive or requires very little effort.

Edit: 7 figures, it's actually billions. Was thinking one thing, typing another...
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#2 - 2015-04-13 16:37:47 UTC
wow 7 whole digits?

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Jack Hayson
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-04-13 16:56:30 UTC
So you are telling us that after a year in w-space you have less than 10mio in your wallet? Shocked
Or was that a typo?
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#4 - 2015-04-13 16:58:02 UTC
7 is p far from 9+

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Freekytoes
Black Powder Ballistics
Hole Control
#5 - 2015-04-13 16:59:38 UTC
Andrew Jester wrote:
wow 7 whole digits?


Yes. Anymore than a couple billion in your wallet is a waste of money.
Freekytoes
Black Powder Ballistics
Hole Control
#6 - 2015-04-13 17:02:20 UTC
Jack Hayson wrote:
So you are telling us that after a year in w-space you have less than 10mio in your wallet? Shocked
Or was that a typo?


Ha! Yes, my bad.. It's billions.. Will edit..
Freekytoes
Black Powder Ballistics
Hole Control
#7 - 2015-04-13 17:03:34 UTC
Freekytoes wrote:
Andrew Jester wrote:
wow 7 whole digits?


Yes. Anymore than a couple billion in your wallet is a waste of money.



Edit: My bad.. it was billions, not millions...
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#8 - 2015-04-13 17:18:49 UTC
nice trip

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Ridvanson
#9 - 2015-04-13 17:36:58 UTC
HA! Went into C5 space alone, made 10b in a day. I win Big smile
Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's
#10 - 2015-04-13 19:21:17 UTC
I actually don't mind this post. A bit too pve heavy for my taste, but whatever. As for Ridvanson's comment. Yes, you made 10 billion in a day, but I am guessing his setup was slightly cheaper than yours. I think there are better ways than a c1, but bro has been happy in wspace for a year. props.
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
#11 - 2015-04-13 22:13:15 UTC
Lots of research you say... sure would be a shame if anything were to happen to it! Twisted
Alundil
Rolled Out
#12 - 2015-04-13 22:17:18 UTC
Glad to hear that you're enjoying wspace. That's fantastic. Keep at it.

Though I'm not certain who told you that a C1 needs 10 active members to "make it".

See you around

I'm right behind you

Pissfat
Tactically Challenged
The Initiative.
#13 - 2015-04-13 22:37:46 UTC
Aquila Sagitta wrote:
Lots of research you say... sure would be a shame if anything were to happen to it! Twisted


All this from your LS hideaway, you really are becoming SYJ.

I am Winthorp you might remember me from such films as i got CCP to make signature ID's persistent through DT for their love of AU bros.

Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-04-13 22:42:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
I don't know how to break this to you but if you this you're 'making money' running PI, anywhere, you're not making money.
obviously you can run the content in a c1 solo, it's a c1. However, it's not worth the pos fuel to do so And is incredibly boring to do so.
a bil isk is roughly nothing and you can make it doing basically anything in eve from l4 mission onwards.

PS: I'm glad you like wspace, I really am, but I highly recommend joining a Corp to experience it properly.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#15 - 2015-04-14 00:35:43 UTC
For all the newbros and beginners starting out, ye of little wallet, the unwashed un-SRPed downtrodden masses of noobs and newbros....don't listen to the swooning elite above. Do your thing, move into the wormhole, make your first billion or two. Get comfortable making a life in w-space, even if it is (relatively) poverty money.

C1's are entry-level stuff. They are good for people who want to learn POSs (while they are still crappy and overly complicated and simply do. not. work. properly.). They are good to dip your toes in to wormhole life, to work toward your first Archon while training your toon (or, really, while saving to buy a cap sitter alt or out-of-the-box cap pilot.

Newt BlackCompany
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2015-04-14 05:43:40 UTC
It's probably time to upscale your WH.

Move to a C4 with C4/C5 statics and you can make 10B a month if you work it, 3B a month if you are passive. Mostly this is from ninja gas mining in the c5's and running C4 sites at home and in your static. But, as you say, there's also plenty of PI.

Only problems are 1) you have to scan down a chain to get out, but it's usually a short chain through the C4 and 2) you are next to c5's so you have to worry about being raided by the big guys.

Key is 1) minimize exposure, remove to hs any ships or arrays you aren't using actively, 2) take down any arrays you aren't using, 3) build a pos that maximizes the annoyance factor of besieging it, 4) don't leave capitals floating and don't build an XLSMA, 5) keep a maximum of 5 bil in ships and loot around, 6) you will lose ships sometimes out here, it's just the cost of doing business in wh's, so plan for it.

Overall, if the barbarians come get your pos, you really only lose about 1 month's income. The rest is in the bank in Jita, so it is a solid profit as long as you survive more than a month or two, and since few enjoy pos bashing, you've got a good shot.





Sequester Risalo
German Corps of Engineers 17
Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
#17 - 2015-04-14 06:40:41 UTC
I think noone will agree with the sentiment that you need 10 active members in a C1. On the contrary everyone will tell you that 10 active members in a C1 will rapidly evolve into 9 bored outlogging members in a C1. C1s are really a solo experience. Learn the ropes and move on to greener pastures.
HoruSeth
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2015-04-14 07:22:55 UTC  |  Edited by: HoruSeth
Hi thanks for the report. Appreciate such infos as I do hope it will attract of some people who nowadays do not live in wormholes.

Freekytoes wrote:

Putting up a tower in a C1 is WAY cheaper than k-space, much safer ( (wardecs are a memory) and a heck of a lot more profitable. My wallet is Billions with 300 million in buy orders outstanding. If you halfxxx the specific industries, you will lose. Don't just "do some PI", LEARN to do PI (etc). Work your income streams. Most of mine is passive or requires very little effort.


Help me, why is a tower in a c1 cheaper than in K-Space? Because of the starbase charter? I mean that is not really worth to be mentioned, is it?

Like Trinkets friend said: Listen to this guy above. I try to express this here and there as well: Take your chance and join C1 as a starter wormhole. Everythink what the thread starter said is valid. Except I would personally not recomment researching in a wormhole. Those array might attract attention you don't want to have.

@Jack: I doubt you can do Billions as fast with Level 4s as you can do in C1. Otherwise I would stay in HiSec and don't daytrip to C1s for my 150M ISK / hour income with a "cheap" 200M ISK ship from PvE when I feel the need to do so. And I am always very happy when I find a talocan frigate. Of course that's not like higher classes, but not everybody can or want to do the trick in C5s. The good thing about a C1 with HS static, that most of the time you can do your Level 4s, when nothing is worthwile to do in the wormhole itself :)

And if those who tried C1 and like the wormhole life, it's not too difficult to upgrade later to C3, C4 or even higher. Plenty of connections these days and setting up a Tower requires 2 hours of work incl. basic structures.

C1 have more connections as well compared to a year ago, so quite often you can do PvE on the "other side" as well and sooner or later you will want to do PvP in wormhole as well. I have often met people moving to wormhole saying: "No interest in PvP", but that changes after some time for sure Twisted and they like it, because when your heart is going at 220bpm during the first fights you get a little addicted Lol

On my gravestone will be written: "Died because he used sarcasm in the wrong moment"

Janeway84
Insane's Asylum
#19 - 2015-04-14 14:23:49 UTC
C1 is great startup wormhole and when you feel bored you can always move up to a higher class of wh and maybe get some friends to join you.
In my experience corps take time to grow and also avoid corps where all active members are RL friends of the ceo and then ceo gets inactive the rest of the bunch follows suit. P
Corp life is at its best imo with a diverse range of members all bringing life to the corp in their own little ways.