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Proposition for Anti-Drifter Strike Force

Author
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2015-04-06 02:35:46 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:
Formalizing a proposition to put together an Strike Force with the sole intention of removing the Drifter threat until we can further understand their motives and objectives. We know for a fact that they are hostile in the right conditions and whatever they are harvesting corpses for, with the aid of the Sleepers, can't be good.

Shoot first, ask questions later. Beyond typical.

And they are collecting Capsuleers for their Jovian based implant tech and compatible biomass.


We've been asking questions and I've personally shadowed some drifters and seekers for many long hours, as has everyone else. We've mostly come to the conclusion that we've learned all we can, for the moment, and it is better to strike back and try to stem the reaping of corpses while we have an opportunity to do so than to continue waiting as more capsuleers' corpses are harvested.



Many Capsuleers scavenge bodies and have vast collections of capsuleer corpses. Out of curiosity, what makes the Drifter corpse collecting such a massive red light that you must attack that which does not attack you first?


We know what capsuleers do with the bodies of other capsuleers. We do not know what the Drifters do with those same corpses.

One is known, the other is unknown.

It's human nature to fear the unknown.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Nomistrav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2015-04-06 16:11:16 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:
Formalizing a proposition to put together an Strike Force with the sole intention of removing the Drifter threat until we can further understand their motives and objectives. We know for a fact that they are hostile in the right conditions and whatever they are harvesting corpses for, with the aid of the Sleepers, can't be good.

Shoot first, ask questions later. Beyond typical.

And they are collecting Capsuleers for their Jovian based implant tech and compatible biomass.


We've been asking questions and I've personally shadowed some drifters and seekers for many long hours, as has everyone else. We've mostly come to the conclusion that we've learned all we can, for the moment, and it is better to strike back and try to stem the reaping of corpses while we have an opportunity to do so than to continue waiting as more capsuleers' corpses are harvested.



Many Capsuleers scavenge bodies and have vast collections of capsuleer corpses. Out of curiosity, what makes the Drifter corpse collecting such a massive red light that you must attack that which does not attack you first?


We know what capsuleers do with the bodies of other capsuleers. We do not know what the Drifters do with those same corpses.

One is known, the other is unknown.

It's human nature to fear the unknown.


It's also human nature to ask questions when we don't understand something. As previously stated, we've asked all the questions we can and learned everything we can from the situation at hand. We've kept combat in moderation to try and give these newcomers a chance to explain their actions, even without directly telling us. They've openly engaged in hostilities, scanned us down without consent, destroyed ships and taken clones without consent.

Are we now suggesting that we must wait for another occurrence like Sansha's incursions to take action?

"As long as space endures,

as long as sentient beings exist,

until then, may I too remain

and dispel the miseries of the world."

~ Vremaja Idama

Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#43 - 2015-04-06 16:33:21 UTC
"We don't understand it. It won't talk to us. So we shot it. But it fired back! The nerve! We must eradicate it for defending itself! Barbarbarbar...."
Nomistrav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2015-04-06 16:39:22 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
"We don't understand it. It won't talk to us. So we shot it. But it fired back! The nerve! We must eradicate it for defending itself! Barbarbarbar...."


Bearing in mind that they shot first and continually shoot first. This isn't a matter for debate. The Anti-Drifter Strike Force proposal is still on the board and I'm still asking for CONCORD escalation as a means of security until we know more. We cannot just continually research at the expense of capsuleer lives while the Drifters prepare, we need to take action while we research.

If a feasible means of non-violent confrontation can occur to quell the Drifter and Seeker activities, I'll be the first one to pour funding into it. For now, this simply must happen.

"As long as space endures,

as long as sentient beings exist,

until then, may I too remain

and dispel the miseries of the world."

~ Vremaja Idama

Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#45 - 2015-04-06 18:00:07 UTC
Nomistrav wrote:
Evi Polevhia wrote:
"We don't understand it. It won't talk to us. So we shot it. But it fired back! The nerve! We must eradicate it for defending itself! Barbarbarbar...."


Bearing in mind that they shot first and continually shoot first. This isn't a matter for debate. The Anti-Drifter Strike Force proposal is still on the board and I'm still asking for CONCORD escalation as a means of security until we know more. We cannot just continually research at the expense of capsuleer lives while the Drifters prepare, we need to take action while we research.

If a feasible means of non-violent confrontation can occur to quell the Drifter and Seeker activities, I'll be the first one to pour funding into it. For now, this simply must happen.


All you showed was a CONCORD verified list of Capsuleer assets destroyed by Drifters. The fact of the matter is when the Circadian Seekers arrived, Capsuleers did shoot first. And when the Drifters first arrived to support the Seekers, once again Capsuleers did shoot first. If there are any engagements with the Drifters, who have never fired at me or any of my Corp mates, I have yet to see one where it could be confirmed that the pilot had never at any point fired on Drifters or Seekers.

As I said before, if there is to be a storm it is one you lot call down on yourself. I still am not sure whether or not they pose a threat to those like me who have never attacked them or trespass in their operational areas. So far they have demonstrated a defensive posture, not an aggressive one. I will not begrudge any people for simply firing in self defense.

But ever since the Circadian Seekers and their Drifter muscle appeared, Capsuleers have been practicing a very high level of aggressive xenophobic behaviors. It is vile and telling of what sort of civilization your kind will lead Humanity to.
Nomistrav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2015-04-06 18:08:03 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:
Evi Polevhia wrote:
"We don't understand it. It won't talk to us. So we shot it. But it fired back! The nerve! We must eradicate it for defending itself! Barbarbarbar...."


Bearing in mind that they shot first and continually shoot first. This isn't a matter for debate. The Anti-Drifter Strike Force proposal is still on the board and I'm still asking for CONCORD escalation as a means of security until we know more. We cannot just continually research at the expense of capsuleer lives while the Drifters prepare, we need to take action while we research.

If a feasible means of non-violent confrontation can occur to quell the Drifter and Seeker activities, I'll be the first one to pour funding into it. For now, this simply must happen.


All you showed was a CONCORD verified list of Capsuleer assets destroyed by Drifters. The fact of the matter is when the Circadian Seekers arrived, Capsuleers did shoot first. And when the Drifters first arrived to support the Seekers, once again Capsuleers did shoot first. If there are any engagements with the Drifters, who have never fired at me or any of my Corp mates, I have yet to see one where it could be confirmed that the pilot had never at any point fired on Drifters or Seekers.

As I said before, if there is to be a storm it is one you lot call down on yourself. I still am not sure whether or not they pose a threat to those like me who have never attacked them or trespass in their operational areas. So far they have demonstrated a defensive posture, not an aggressive one. I will not begrudge any people for simply firing in self defense.

But ever since the Circadian Seekers and their Drifter muscle appeared, Capsuleers have been practicing a very high level of aggressive xenophobic behaviors. It is vile and telling of what sort of civilization your kind will lead Humanity to.


Go say hello to a Drifter without firing a shot at it. See how well that works for you.

"As long as space endures,

as long as sentient beings exist,

until then, may I too remain

and dispel the miseries of the world."

~ Vremaja Idama

Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#47 - 2015-04-06 21:49:23 UTC
Nomistrav wrote:


Go say hello to a Drifter without firing a shot at it. See how well that works for you.



You mean something like this or this?

It's amazing what you can accomplish by treating other people as people and not targets.
Nomistrav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2015-04-06 22:34:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Nomistrav
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:


Go say hello to a Drifter without firing a shot at it. See how well that works for you.



You mean something like this or this?

It's amazing what you can accomplish by treating other people as people and not targets.


Now give that a shot near a wormhole. EDIT: Expect this to be my last response to you as I have no idea who you are and that generally means you're not contributing to either research or tactical superiority and are otherwise contextually worthless.

"As long as space endures,

as long as sentient beings exist,

until then, may I too remain

and dispel the miseries of the world."

~ Vremaja Idama

Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#49 - 2015-04-06 22:50:12 UTC
Nomistrav wrote:
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:


Go say hello to a Drifter without firing a shot at it. See how well that works for you.



You mean something like this or this?

It's amazing what you can accomplish by treating other people as people and not targets.


Now give that a shot near a wormhole. EDIT: Expect this to be my last response to you as I have no idea who you are and that generally means you're not contributing to either research or tactical superiority and are otherwise contextually worthless.


I once found a hidden Caldari military facility in Placid. When approached, they opened fire. I do suppose I must start an Anti-State Strike Force now.

That's the thing about military operational areas. Trespass and you will be fired on. Every empire does this. Why are you treating the Drifters any different?
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#50 - 2015-04-06 23:29:49 UTC
Y'know, there's a point to be made about Capsuleer aggression against the Drifters but that's the opposite of the way to make it.

Empires operate military operational areas in the space of people who they are at war with, or in space that they claim. If you're admitting these are military operations, you're admitting that the Drifters have given more than adequate casus belli.
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#51 - 2015-04-06 23:49:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Evi Polevhia
Rinai Vero wrote:
Y'know, there's a point to be made about Capsuleer aggression against the Drifters but that's the opposite of the way to make it.

Empires operate military operational areas in the space of people who they are at war with, or in space that they claim. If you're admitting these are military operations, you're admitting that the Drifters have given more than adequate casus belli.


Space is big. If you're going to go to war with a technologically advanced race because they are claiming at most 8 million km³ in systems that are measured by hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of au³? At sites we never even knew existed until recently? Sites that were put in place, and probably would've been as aggressively defended, by your oh so friendly Jovian Directorate?

Hey, more power to you. Put in a good word for me just before they burn your homeworlds to the ground.
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#52 - 2015-04-07 02:00:59 UTC
The Jovian Directorate was capable of, and actually did communicate. Whatever the Drifters / Circadian Seekers represent, it is not the Directorate.

I'm not a scientist, and I haven't participated in any of the research that's been focused on these entities. I'm a soldier primarily, but I've been giving diplomacy a whirl lately. I'm hardly an expert, but it seems rather obvious to me that if you want to be diplomatic the first step is actually fracking talking to someone...
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#53 - 2015-04-07 02:06:31 UTC
Captain Davison wrote:
(but let's face it, most pirates are drugged out of their minds)

If your job had you butting heads with capsuleers without the benefit of a clone, you would probably be drugged out too.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#54 - 2015-04-07 02:13:19 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:


I once found a hidden Caldari military facility in Placid. When approached, they opened fire. I do suppose I must start an Anti-State Strike Force now.

Yes. This is the proper response, I support this thing you must do.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Dailar Toralen
Toralen Industries
#55 - 2015-04-07 11:41:01 UTC
As this is obviously a combat Task Force, I have started up a discussion for 'Project Insight' in which where those interested in studying and understanding this new threat can discuss there known tactics, data on previous engagements, and the intriguing Anytherika Element.

We are Toralen Industries. It doesn't matter if you fight for money, idealogies, or because it's what you are good at and it doesn't matter if you fight threw trade, combat, or diplomacy. No matter what or how you fight, there's a place for you.

Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#56 - 2015-04-07 12:42:54 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
The Jovian Directorate was capable of, and actually did communicate. Whatever the Drifters / Circadian Seekers represent, it is not the Directorate.

I'm not a scientist, and I haven't participated in any of the research that's been focused on these entities. I'm a soldier primarily, but I've been giving diplomacy a whirl lately. I'm hardly an expert, but it seems rather obvious to me that if you want to be diplomatic the first step is actually fracking talking to someone...


Seems fairly obvious they don't wish to talk to us. Is that reason enough to shoot them?
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#57 - 2015-04-07 16:05:14 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Rinai Vero wrote:
The Jovian Directorate was capable of, and actually did communicate. Whatever the Drifters / Circadian Seekers represent, it is not the Directorate.

I'm not a scientist, and I haven't participated in any of the research that's been focused on these entities. I'm a soldier primarily, but I've been giving diplomacy a whirl lately. I'm hardly an expert, but it seems rather obvious to me that if you want to be diplomatic the first step is actually fracking talking to someone...


Seems fairly obvious they don't wish to talk to us. Is that reason enough to shoot them?

Yes?

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#58 - 2015-04-07 17:13:36 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Rinai Vero wrote:
The Jovian Directorate was capable of, and actually did communicate. Whatever the Drifters / Circadian Seekers represent, it is not the Directorate.

I'm not a scientist, and I haven't participated in any of the research that's been focused on these entities. I'm a soldier primarily, but I've been giving diplomacy a whirl lately. I'm hardly an expert, but it seems rather obvious to me that if you want to be diplomatic the first step is actually fracking talking to someone...


Seems fairly obvious they don't wish to talk to us. Is that reason enough to shoot them?


Actually, their wishes aren't obvious at all. That's the problem. It is a fact that they are not talking to us, past that we speculate.

My lack of scientific background aside, I've been going over various research on the Sleepers and talking with my compatriots who were previously active in the Arek'Jalan Project. From what I've read, it is established that the drones encountered in Sleeper sites within wormhole space are not directly controlled from within the Sleeper Virtuality. Instead, the Sleepers left behind an adaptive AI tasked with protecting them from external threats.

At this point, my guess is that what we are seeing are the beginning of long term consequences from Capsuleer incursions to Anoikis. Whatever parameters the Sleepers left for their AI guardians, they have obviously been pushed past the breaking point. There are a number of possibilities, none of them particularly positive for us.

Oh, and by the way... from what I'm reading... Sansha's Nation is already fully engaged in whatever conflict is taking place out in Wormhole space. Sounds like not even Master Kuvekei shares your viewpoint.
Luna Hanaya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2015-04-08 16:21:59 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Rinai Vero wrote:
The Jovian Directorate was capable of, and actually did communicate. Whatever the Drifters / Circadian Seekers represent, it is not the Directorate.

I'm not a scientist, and I haven't participated in any of the research that's been focused on these entities. I'm a soldier primarily, but I've been giving diplomacy a whirl lately. I'm hardly an expert, but it seems rather obvious to me that if you want to be diplomatic the first step is actually fracking talking to someone...


Seems fairly obvious they don't wish to talk to us. Is that reason enough to shoot them?

Some people are violent like that

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Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#60 - 2015-04-10 19:52:29 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:


Go say hello to a Drifter without firing a shot at it. See how well that works for you.



You mean something like this or this?

It's amazing what you can accomplish by treating other people as people and not targets.

He is a gallentean, Ms. Polevhia, he either tries to convert them to "freedom, hedonism, democracy" and other filth by words, but if they don't listen to him, he just shoots them.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.