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Concord should not protect POS, that ran out of charters.
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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#21 - 2015-04-09 07:45:48 UTC
You pay with the charters to use it. If you do not have charters in the POS, you cannot use it.

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Null Infinity
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2015-04-09 12:12:36 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
You pay with the charters to use it. If you do not have charters in the POS, you cannot use it.


Fair point. POS is a stationary ship, actually. Without WD you get CONCORDED for shooting AFK ship in high sec , so you should not be able tot shoot POS either.

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Garnoo
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#23 - 2015-04-09 12:47:49 UTC
Reina Xyaer wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

besides POS are on the way out anyway 2-3 more years and they should be gone no need to spend dev time to change it


2-3 more YEARS???

YEARS??

It sure as hell BETTER NOT take TWO... or THREE years (?!?!) to get rid of POSs and give us the new structures they just unveiled.


i remember ccp talking about fixing/changing POS 2 or 3 years ago... so yes, 2 or 3 more years to wait are quite realistic time...

hisec pos-spots are quite valuable, especially close to market bubs etc, an OP just wanted a find a way to make easy afk (thanks god for sentry drones and t1 laser ammo) ISK...
you can always blame 50m is too much for starting wardecs, lets make it free and live in constant wardec (oh wait, you would all live in npc cork then)

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erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#24 - 2015-04-09 12:53:39 UTC
Garnoo wrote:


hisec pos-spots are quite valuable, especially close to market bubs etc, an OP just wanted a find a way to make easy afk (thanks god for sentry drones and t1 laser ammo) ISK...


As a matter of fact I need a spot in high sec / low sec border, so I can reship quickly (no NPC station in that system). And I am no chief in my corp to make WD who ever I want.

Garnoo wrote:

wardecs, lets make it free and


I am not suggesting to make WD free.

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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#25 - 2015-04-09 13:22:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
erg cz wrote:
I just want to stress once again, that OP is not about "POS to be removed from space" for me. POS should stay there so everyone can shoot it. Just not CONCORD protected any more.

Why I have to pay with charters for my POS to be there, if the guy next door has its POS ready to online any time without paying a single ISK?

Interesting you claim now that the OP was not about removing a dead POS from space and yet in the section below which is quoted from your OP you clearly state that you want to be able to "shoot it straight away to clear space" sounds to me like you want to shoot the damned thing. And in this same segment you complain about the time and ISK that it takes to shoot it as well and so my answer to you is still no. WD and shoot it or move on.

And in case you missed it from my last post the key to removing Concord protection is called a WD and it only costs 50 mil.

erg cz wrote:
Right now to shoot down abandoned POS in high sec requires war dec the corp. Which costs money and time. I suggest CONCORD will stop protecting POSes, that ran out of charters. So we can shoot it straight away to clear the space. POS without charter payment lost its right to be there, IMHO.
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#26 - 2015-04-09 14:36:01 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
erg cz wrote:
I just want to stress once again, that OP is not about "POS to be removed from space" for me. POS should stay there so everyone can shoot it. Just not CONCORD protected any more.

Why I have to pay with charters for my POS to be there, if the guy next door has its POS ready to online any time without paying a single ISK?

Interesting you claim now that the OP was not about removing a dead POS from space and yet in the section below which is quoted from your OP you clearly state that you want to be able to "shoot it straight away to clear space" sounds to me like you want to shoot the damned thing. And in this same segment you complain about the time and ISK that it takes to shoot it as well and so my answer to you is still no. WD and shoot it or move on.

And in case you missed it from my last post the key to removing Concord protection is called a WD and it only costs 50 mil.

erg cz wrote:
Right now to shoot down abandoned POS in high sec requires war dec the corp. Which costs money and time. I suggest CONCORD will stop protecting POSes, that ran out of charters. So we can shoot it straight away to clear the space. POS without charter payment lost its right to be there, IMHO.


Those two my statements do not contradict each other. I do not see it fair if I have to pay in charters to use the place at the moon and someone else just occupy the next moon without paying a single ISK. And i do not want CCP or anyone else to remove abandoned POS for me - I will shoot it myself, when I will be ready to replace it with my own POS. I just do not want to bother with some war declaration (I am not a CEO)

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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#27 - 2015-04-09 14:48:51 UTC
If concord doesn't intervene when I shoot a POS that isn't up to date on taxes (we'll call them charters), then I will assume concord will not be intervening when I shoot jet cans that don't have up to date taxes on them.

I think it's only fair if charters buy concord protection for a POS then jet can miners should also have to pay some form of tax for each jetcan that concord protects.

Also there should be some form of tax on MTU and depots, as limited protection for these launched structures is provided in the way of criminal flagging.

I don't think it's reasonable to pull concord off of one form of space junk (POS) without pulling them off of other forms of space junk (jet cans, MTU and depots). Concord can't afford to send mixed messages to the public it protects.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2015-04-09 14:54:46 UTC
erg cz wrote:
...And i do not want CCP or anyone else to remove abandoned POS for me - I will shoot it myself, when I will be ready to replace it with my own POS. I just do not want to bother with some war declaration (I am not a CEO)


A POS is a corp asset and as such requires corp action to validate getting rid of it, if you want the ability to choose to wardec to remove a tower then you need to start your own corp and be CEO. Charter are simply certificates from the local faction saying you can operate a tower there. Standing a tower up is entirely seperate and is governed by wardec mechanics. Allowing individuals to go rogue and hit any unchartered tower is circumventing these mechanics and shouldn't be allowed.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#29 - 2015-04-09 15:58:05 UTC
erg cz wrote:
Hi.

To be able to use POS in high sec you have to pat not only fuel but also race charter. After your POS run out of fuel, it goes off line. But what is the conciquence of running out of chart? I suggeest it would be not only going off line but also loosing CONCORD protection.

Right now to shoot down abandoned POS in high sec requires war dec the corp. Which costs money and time. I suggest CONCORD will stop protecting POSes, that ran out of charters. So we can shoot it straight away to clear the space. POS without charter payment lost its right to be there, IMHO.


Right now, if a POS runs out of charters... it goes offline.

As far as your easy gank idea goes....Fight for what you want. Dec em. Working as intended.

-1

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Madeleine Lemmont
Ars Vivendi
#30 - 2015-04-09 16:01:51 UTC
Concord should erase everybody, who attacks anything of anybody else in highsec, where the attacker has no war with.

POS running out of charters are a personal issue for the local authority only. They could be penalized by local authority or attacked by them. But not by honorless raiders looking for valueful victims.

---
If it becomes possible to join a local police force and run against enemies of the faction, you may also be able to see those POSes as suspicious ones.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2015-04-09 16:40:26 UTC
erg cz wrote:
Donnachadh wrote:
erg cz wrote:
I just want to stress once again, that OP is not about "POS to be removed from space" for me. POS should stay there so everyone can shoot it. Just not CONCORD protected any more.

Why I have to pay with charters for my POS to be there, if the guy next door has its POS ready to online any time without paying a single ISK?

Interesting you claim now that the OP was not about removing a dead POS from space and yet in the section below which is quoted from your OP you clearly state that you want to be able to "shoot it straight away to clear space" sounds to me like you want to shoot the damned thing. And in this same segment you complain about the time and ISK that it takes to shoot it as well and so my answer to you is still no. WD and shoot it or move on.

And in case you missed it from my last post the key to removing Concord protection is called a WD and it only costs 50 mil.

erg cz wrote:
Right now to shoot down abandoned POS in high sec requires war dec the corp. Which costs money and time. I suggest CONCORD will stop protecting POSes, that ran out of charters. So we can shoot it straight away to clear the space. POS without charter payment lost its right to be there, IMHO.


Those two my statements do not contradict each other. I do not see it fair if I have to pay in charters to use the place at the moon and someone else just occupy the next moon without paying a single ISK. And i do not want CCP or anyone else to remove abandoned POS for me - I will shoot it myself, when I will be ready to replace it with my own POS. I just do not want to bother with some war declaration (I am not a CEO)


You don't pay charter to use the moon anchoring point. You pay charter to keep your POS running.

If you do not want to deal with a war declaration, then find an empty spot or suicide gank it with thousands upon thousands of ships.
Loki Feiht
Warcrows
Sedition.
#32 - 2015-04-10 05:34:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Loki Feiht
My suggestion would be to allow the POS to continue operating without charters but flag the structure (and it's 'children') suspect (or some other flag derivative), I'd also like to see POS that run out of fuel entirely degrade over time, becoming hackable/salvageable.

Despite common opinion in this thread, wardecs to remove junk that people have left laying around (especially small, solo towers on moons no one is interested in) simply aren't worth the wardec, an easier way to remove them would create a new career for players and groups while also making use of existing skills.

More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858
Null Infinity
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2015-04-10 07:56:23 UTC
Loki Feiht wrote:
My suggestion would be to allow the POS to continue operating without charters but flag the structure (and it's 'children') suspect (or some other flag derivative),

Interesting suggestion. But suspect flag is given by CONCORD, not by local authorities. So no go here.

Loki Feiht wrote:

I'd also like to see POS that run out of fuel entirely degrade over time, becoming hackable/salvageable.

would create a new career for players and groups while also making use of existing skills.

Degrade = no. Salvage = oh yes! Yes big time I like it !!! More content for me, newbee, more professions. Not only high sec but I saw some abandoned POSes in wormwhole as well. If I can salvage them and make ISK out of it it would be greate!

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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2015-04-10 08:31:23 UTC
Making them salvageable would crash the PI market, they should have to be destroyed one way or another to keep driving demand.
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#35 - 2015-04-10 08:42:05 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Making them salvageable would crash the PI market, they should have to be destroyed one way or another to keep driving demand.


Exactly. And if stupid war dec need is gone - demand will raise up, economy booming, every one happy. ;)

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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2015-04-10 12:02:51 UTC
erg cz wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Making them salvageable would crash the PI market, they should have to be destroyed one way or another to keep driving demand.


Exactly. And if stupid war dec need is gone - demand will raise up, economy booming, every one happy. ;)


A wardec is soooooo hard to make...
Null Infinity
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2015-04-10 13:03:21 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:


A wardec is soooooo hard to make...


erg cz wrote:
(I am not a CEO)


Can war declaration be made by ordinary member? Just a question from newbee, so please be nice ;)

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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2015-04-10 13:10:55 UTC
Null Infinity wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


A wardec is soooooo hard to make...


erg cz wrote:
(I am not a CEO)


Can war declaration be made by ordinary member? Just a question from newbee, so please be nice ;)


He could convince his CEO to make the wardec? You know, social interaction within his own corp? If he want that POS anchor point, maybe he's willing to pay for the dec cost?
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#39 - 2015-04-10 14:04:39 UTC
Null Infinity wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


A wardec is soooooo hard to make...


erg cz wrote:
(I am not a CEO)


Can war declaration be made by ordinary member? Just a question from newbee, so please be nice ;)

A little more info to supplement the last post.

If you are in an NPC corp then you cannot war dec someon or be war deced yourself.
To file a WD you need to be in a player corp.

Since the theory of POS deteriorating over time has raisedit's ugly head again the answer is NO.
Because, players paid to place it there and you have to pay to remove it.
So no to any game mechanic that makes a POS more vulnerable over time.
NO to any mechanic that makes an offline POS more vulnerable than they are now.

If 50 mil and a few hours is to much for you to invest then you do not want the space badly enough to be given a cheap and easy way to claim it.

Changing the salvage and loot from a destroyed tower is something I can support based on my experiences but that is for another discussion topic.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2015-04-10 14:16:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Corraidhin Farsaidh
Donnachadh wrote:
....

Changing the salvage and loot from a destroyed tower is something I can support based on my experiences but that is for another discussion topic.


I'll clarify my point on this, salvaging from a destroyed tower is fine in my view but hacking/salvaging towers that are offline is not. You want the space, you wardec and take it.