EVE General Discussion

You would be surprised how often that is me.
As for structures, I am one of the people that actually turn up to help with those things. Using a typhoon, like a frigate to tackle capitals, then bump them under the nose of a death star POS and getting away alive, while being shot when we had to retreat was hilarious.

It's a real possibility the ganking community is starting to feel the pressure.

Look, the hyperdunking thread at the top of GD revealed to a lot of players that highsec has a "gank pipeline" and it's obvious that the highsec PVPers are in highsec for the same reason as their targets are: the mechanics of null and low stink for low level PVP and general PVP-ish tomfoolery. People are tired of spending twice to time to travel around and then die in a fire to a raepcamp at a gate or a BLOPS drop anyway. Meaning that a suicide gank of a freighter or mission bling boat STILL brings about ship loss but at a greater return on investment for that killboard that some people say is worthless when their actions dictate otherwise.

Do we want to spend hours sneaking around death camps in nullsec with the possibility to get caught or dropped without getting a kill or even a chance at one or do we want to casually (Yes, CASUAL play is afoot here) travel about looking for targets and potential benefit (green or ISK) without losing before having a chance to win?

But not every player who wants to do that wants to go with suicide ganking either. Looking at everything from suicide ganking to mission baiting to hyperdunking reveals a smorgasbord of tricks, tactics, and "routines" that are far more creative and challenging than gate camping in low or nullsec fleet F1 monkey play. Both of which are all settled by who has more ships anyway, no matter what you do. And the breakaway from these detriments works both ways. A single suicide ganker can spell a lot of trouble but a single AG'er can also spell trouble for the gankers.

There's no cut and dried metric or how-to on anti-ganking either. Meaning that there is a bastion (hopefully not, but probably is) the LAST bastion for player creativity here. People have carved out niches for themselves in the game by being creative with mechanics and tactics, from large fleets to suicide ganking and everything in between. I recall a player by the name of Herr Wilkus who had a Tornado gank triple play so well done that he caused a nerf within an week of posting about it. But there is nothing so far for anti-ganking.

And the best part about it is that when the AG crowd does become more creative and see some success, the suicide gankers will also adapt (they pride themselves on it).


Sandbox, players adapting, emergent gameplay - it's all there, in highsec. No more "having to go to null after 2 years of skilling and grinding " for PVP. And null PVP is not what it's cracked up to be. I watch highsec PVPers enjoying the same "easy" that everybody else in highsec is mocked and ridiculed for benefitting from.

And the people doing the mocking will boast on their ability to get kills, to adapt. But with all that dogma, Church of HTFU and open display of moral superiority, it would only be a matter of time before other PVPers would pick up on it and decide to counter them because it's indeed creative and challenging game play.

In the end, NOTHING can be wrong with players undocking to solve a "problem" themselves and find a way to do it, starting from nothing. It's always, as I'm sure the more honest amongst us will agree, better than going to CCP and begging for mechanics changes and nerfs.

If the anti-gankers had shown up sooner perhaps suicide ganking would not have seen so many nerfs? Think about that.

They're carebears and haters, which means that
they will do ANYTHING to make themselves feel like achievers
and no lie, self deception or delusion is too big!


That's all there is to it.

To me, that sounds as exciting as shooting a tiny red cross. Or mining a rock. Which is to say, dreadfully boring. The most exciting times in EVE for me has been when we've engaged a fleet larger than us, or more powerful than us, or more expensive than us - and we emerged victorious.

There are other, more enjoyable, ways of doing fleets in EVE. In CAS, we almost always fly kitchen sink - people bring whatever they want (although sometimes the FC will say something like "no battleships please as I want to move quickly.") The FC then coordinates the fleet's movement ("Jump jump jump, warp to...") and how/when to engage ("Keep bumping the Brutix until he lights the cyno..." or "Disengage, we can't break their reps...") and what target is primary ("All DPS on the Widow and get tackle on the Tengu...") but beyond that it's up to each individual pilot to fly their ship as best they can - managing range, capacitor and reps appropriate to their ship, when to MWD or not... It's great fun for everybody, and produces lots of pretty explosions. In the fishing metaphor, it's like going out on a deep-sea charter, rather than scooping goldfish out of a tank.

It's either "but" or "yet", never both.

I don't know, but it's ineffective.

Chance is too high that he is full of stabs and gets away.
I once killed a hauling iteron in a rifter by bumping it out of align
until it popped. That actually works ...

... but most fun is to be had to shoot the wreck and poof the loot .........

No

... but you could do this in a very cheap ship on an alt, wrecks require very little damage to pop.

It comes in a few flavors, and these flavors are being generically lumped together under the flag of "anti-ganking". Just as with gankers, not everyone is doing it in the same way for the same reasons. Having ganked a couple of industrials myself, I'll offer the flavors I've seen:

1) Other Gankers
Some people have many accounts and try to do all the empire ganking along "their" roughts. They don't like competition, so they are essentially grieving the greifers to cut down on competition. They'll cloak a hauler 200km off the gate you are ganking on just to try and steal the loot, or buy killrights off the people you gank and save them for next time you come to that gate. This is the most annoying variety, imho.

2) White Knichts
Ugh. These morons do exactly what you describe, trying to get in on KMs and then pat themselves on the back for being saviors of the game. It doesn't affect ganking. It's just kind of weird. I think maybe there's more of a Role Playing motivation to it, personally.

3) PvPers
In a similar vein to #1, these guys buy killmails from ganking victims. They want the KMs as a hunter might want a lion's head on his wall. They are just out to kill. Gankers are good targets because a) the killrights are usually cheap and b) gankers fly combat ships = combat ship KM. These guys would make good pirates, but watching the ship pop is all that does it for them.

4) Opportunists / KM Wh0res
Sometimes you're just in the right place at the right time. Noob 2mo acct? Yay! Free Tornado KM! Now to apply to a corp and actually learn to fight...

5) Organized Anti-Gankers
These guys are quite troublesome because they have their s*** together and know who is who. If you are a ganker you are probably on their list. They buy and trade killrights too... but unlike #1 who's just defending a certain area or route, being on that list follows you all over New Eden. They'll call out familiar faces when they see them anywhere, and you can bet if someone is on with your killright, they will soon be on the way to light you up. They've gotten me a few times, and I'm always impressed with the lengths they'll go to. They are definitely on a mission. Keeping an alt in their public intel channel is a good idea.

6) Derp Squad
I'm only adding this as #6 because I didn't want to group these guys in with anyone else. Some people just have no idea what they are doing. You could call them 'white knights', but that gives them too much credit. They pretty much just sit at gates that are frequently ganker gates. No plan. No goal. No idea. Sounds crazy... but half of the so-called anti-gankers I think fall into this category. (A tristan inexplicably shoots at you gearing up to gank and gets CONCORD'd? Probably one of these guys.)

Just my 2 isk... lots of motivations for the obstacles you face as a ganker.