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Epic Smartbombfail aka How CCP protect da Carebears
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Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#61 - 2015-04-09 13:44:11 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Eve Solecist wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Alpha != damage per second.
Raw damage or after resists?

This is still my second favourite Goons involved fail, no matter what is said, that video is hilarious. Lol

I always shake my head when people come up with dps ...
... when it's about artillery and alpha.
Kaphrah wrote:
... Let me tell you about the testserver: In a 0.7 system you can easily get 3 cycles of smartbombs off before Concord kills you ...
Yes, I can see now how DPS has nothing to do with it Eve Solecist, you have opened my eyes. Thank you so much! Roll

It's a clear sign people are "too deep into it",
when they start reading things that weren't said or even implied.

It was a side note, supporting your post.

Calm down, miner!
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Jenshae Chiroptera
#62 - 2015-04-09 14:03:48 UTC
Eve Solecist wrote:
It was a side note, supporting your post.
Less posts & more clarity, please.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Kaphrah
Angry Angels Constructions
Goonswarm Federation
#63 - 2015-04-09 14:12:46 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Eve Solecist wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Alpha != damage per second.
Raw damage or after resists?

This is still my second favourite Goons involved fail, no matter what is said, that video is hilarious. Lol

I always shake my head when people come up with dps ...
... when it's about artillery and alpha.
Kaphrah wrote:
... Let me tell you about the testserver: In a 0.7 system you can easily get 3 cycles of smartbombs off before Concord kills you ...
Yes, I can see now how DPS has nothing to do with it Eve Solecist, you have opened my eyes. Thank you so much! Roll



DPS does not matter. At some point those weapons are fired, and instantly inflict 140k damage. Then the cycle runs. And they inflict 140k damage again. Considering your ship is webbed and scrammed I wish you good luck to get out of range.

And raw damage and resists does not matter here. 140k is raw damage. 100k EHP is the amount of raw damage needed to kill the ship instantly, so we are already comparing the same things if we have raw DMG and EHP.
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2015-04-09 15:09:42 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Yes, I can see now how DPS has nothing to do with it Eve Solecist, you have opened my eyes. Thank you so much! Roll


DPS only matters if your target survives the initial Alpha. Looking at the theoretical numbers - I concur with the OP, the targets should have died.

The problem so much of the time, as in this case, is that theory does not always translate well into practice.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#65 - 2015-04-09 16:26:58 UTC
Niclas Miula wrote:
It started with an idea. We wanted to do something memorable in EVE. So we came up with the idea to gank a whole Incursionfleet at once.
But just a gank wouldn't be enough it had to be something with THE style. So we had chosen to gank in Faction Battleships just for the lulz. We picked mostly Machariels.

We made the plan. Even enemies came together to fly with us. On this point special thanks to all the guys from different Corps and Allies all over EVE.
We filled the crowd.
We bought the ships and the Smartbombs (producers are lame today, we had problems to get them all in one turn ^^)
We transported them, fitted them.
We filled the fleet.
We gave out the ships.
We warped to the spot and then the magic happened.

With special top secret super moves we finally could collect the enemyfleet at 0 to us. And then the Command came "Smartbombs hot"

I pressed F1 to F8 and started to smile, but not for long.
We could not activate the Smartbombs just one or two. The serverlags were too hard.

So even if we get the ships back I allready says thx to CCP.
A month of work for nothing.

Here are funny Videos of our glory:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72r9htVXUQY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JAapGA0ShA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uj9mAujBJs

Battlereport:
Bow for our Glory

Newsreport:
The Mittani




How come your weapons were not grouped?

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Paranoid Loyd
#66 - 2015-04-09 16:29:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Ugh Herzog, I hope you are joking.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#67 - 2015-04-09 16:33:59 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Ugh Herzog, I hope you are joking.



I'm not an aspergian min-maxer, meaning I never used a disco BS. I never set out to "do everything" in the game and have never used a smart bomb. So I am serious.


If there is some denigration to be afforded for not knowing, then excuse me for not going to out use every last detail in the game out of some obsession. Forgive me for being sane and having a life.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Paranoid Loyd
#68 - 2015-04-09 16:37:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
I've never used smart bombs either but I still know they can't be grouped.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2015-04-09 16:39:13 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Forgive me for being sane and having a life.


Having a life I can forgive, but sanity I can't let slide by lightly.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#70 - 2015-04-09 18:20:51 UTC
Kaphrah wrote:
And raw damage and resists does not matter here. 140k is raw damage. 100k EHP is the amount of raw damage needed to kill the ship instantly, so we are already comparing the same things if we have raw DMG and EHP.
Range, their own logi, overheating, shield regen, lack of perfect skills in the attackers, there are many factors to shake off that 40K.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#71 - 2015-04-09 18:45:37 UTC
Kaphrah wrote:
omg... some people should either go back to school or play the game a bit.

We had (counting the few non machs in) 59 ships.
Roughly 465 Smartbombs, some ships were Nightmare so a few less. Let's count with 58 ships but 8 Smartbombs per ship to make it easier. 8 Smartbombs have an Alpha of ~2400 damage.

58 Ships * 2400 Damage = 139200 Damage

We tested the signature thingy, you get the same damage with MWD and without, so sig radius obviously doesn't matter for a ship class.

If your Incursion fitted Ship gets 139200 incoming damage, please consider that the guy who took them into warp was their fleetbooster. Wait. What? Command links don't run if the ship is in warp. Breaking news.

Let me tell you about the testserver: In a 0.7 system you can easily get 3 cycles of smartbombs off before Concord kills you (cap boosters for the neut works fine). We were in a 0.6 for the actual thing.
A warpscrambler instantly deactivates your microwarpdrive.
All ships had a web + 1-2 tackles.

So there are some people here telling me their ship would survive 3*139.200=417.600 Damage without a boost in a regular Incursion fit. Remember, we talk about pure damage so we have to take the ships EHP which are usually around 100-120k.

After 4 years flying Incursions, especially HQ's, do you think I never saw a fit of those ships? That we do this for the fun of it and check if we really just did exactly 40% of shield damage on each ship after?

If CCP says the fleet fight notification should be used for 300+ people, and we expected 40 people to come, then I expect the server to handle at least our first cycle. Also concord was obviously not influenced by the server or loaded primarily. Check the videos, we had no chance, while concord was spawning fine.
Nice how many people actually think that we can't expect the servers to work properly for a 60 vs 40 fight which happens all day in null.


The first smartbomb everyone of those 59 battleship used generated 40+ crimanal flag + related concord spawn. Congratulation, you managed to generate 2360+ criminal flags and CONCORD spawn on the frist volley and then wonder why the server went to **** and you had trouble getting more cycles off or activating modules (the other smartbombs)?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#72 - 2015-04-09 18:48:04 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Kaphrah wrote:
And raw damage and resists does not matter here. 140k is raw damage. 100k EHP is the amount of raw damage needed to kill the ship instantly, so we are already comparing the same things if we have raw DMG and EHP.
Range, their own logi, overheating, shield regen, lack of perfect skills in the attackers, there are many factors to shake off that 40K.


Does not apply if the module were to actually work because the whole 140k would be dealth within the same tick. You can't OH withing a single tick nor can you rep someone (you could get lucky and get a rep cycle that landed on the same tick to register between some of the smartbombs but that's quite a bad probability). You also get no regen and can't move.
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2015-04-09 19:00:40 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kaphrah wrote:
...


The first smartbomb everyone of those 59 battleship used generated 40+ crimanal flag + related concord spawn. Congratulation, you managed to generate 2360+ criminal flags and CONCORD spawn on the frist volley and then wonder why the server went to **** and you had trouble getting more cycles off or activating modules (the other smartbombs)?

Additionally the 300people for a "Fleet Fight Notification" is based around Nullsec, where there is virtually no overhead.
Highsec is a whole different best, it has loads of overhead on the server.. Crimewatch being the biggest, but also faction police, customs, the actual overhead for the Incursions themselves, etc. Ontop of that, an Incursion takes place on a single node, so when counting pilots, you need to count EVERYONE in the Incursion Constellation, which would be WELL in excess of 300. Sisi, outside of mass testing, has fewer people on the whole server than an a single incursion has most of the time.. so the tests there were meaningless for showing load.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#74 - 2015-04-09 19:12:13 UTC
There was also something like 58 smartbomb dealing damage to close to 100 ships each since it damaged ship in the bombing fleet too.

58 bombs on the first module activation per attacking ships * (own fleet + enemy fleet) = total damage event

58 * (58 + 40) = 5684 damage event. All those + the CONCORD spawn + the criminal flag call had to happen withing a single tick + potentially 5684 more damage event because you were able to cycle 2 SB instead of only 1.

The idea itse;f was a fun thing to try but the math side of it escalated quickly...
2Sonas1Cup
#75 - 2015-04-09 19:53:57 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Alpha != damage per second.
Raw damage or after resists?

This is still my second favourite Goons involved fail, no matter what is said, that video is hilarious. Lol


No matter what you say, most people will never grasp the concept of alpha damage in ganks because theyre stuck with DPS concept.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#76 - 2015-04-09 19:57:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Does not apply if the module were to actually work because the whole 140k would be dealth within the same tick. You can't OH withing a single tick nor can you rep someone (you could get lucky and get a rep cycle that landed on the same tick to register between some of the smartbombs but that's quite a bad probability). You also get no regen and can't move.
... because people activate everything perfectly when so many are mouse happy? You aren't capable of over heating when you see enemies landing on you?
It is High Sec after all. Not like they are going to have an hour long fight with you while Concord is blowing them away.
2Sonas1Cup wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Alpha != damage per second.
Raw damage or after resists?
This is still my second favourite Goons involved fail, no matter what is said, that video is hilarious. Lol
No matter what you say, most people will never grasp the concept of alpha damage in ganks because theyre stuck with DPS concept.
I have blopped into the middle of a fleet fight. I think I know what alpha damage is.
The post was not clear if he was just giving his raw calculations or had accounted for resists. It also talks about multiple cycles.

Going to watch the video for another laugh now. Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#77 - 2015-04-09 20:37:46 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Does not apply if the module were to actually work because the whole 140k would be dealth within the same tick. You can't OH withing a single tick nor can you rep someone (you could get lucky and get a rep cycle that landed on the same tick to register between some of the smartbombs but that's quite a bad probability). You also get no regen and can't move.
... because people activate everything perfectly when so many are mouse happy? You aren't capable of over heating when you see enemies landing on you?


You can get the OH off if you are lucky and really on the ball and a good chunk of your EHP on some ship can't be over-heated. A vindi for example get quite some EHP out of the hull with a DCU II. Beside that, the regen will amount to nearly nothing.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2015-04-09 21:24:30 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
I'll be surprised if not only do you not get your ships back, but some of you don't get temp bans for "deliberately inducing server lag".

It's a pretty well known fact that smartbombing large-ish groups of ships in high sec will produce mind numbing levels of lag as the server tries to spawn concord for every ship you hit - and everyone else in your fleet is doing the same thing.


This is what time dilation was made to prevent.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2015-04-09 21:27:16 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Does not apply if the module were to actually work because the whole 140k would be dealth within the same tick. You can't OH withing a single tick nor can you rep someone (you could get lucky and get a rep cycle that landed on the same tick to register between some of the smartbombs but that's quite a bad probability). You also get no regen and can't move.
... because people activate everything perfectly when so many are mouse happy? You aren't capable of over heating when you see enemies landing on you?
It is High Sec after all. Not like they are going to have an hour long fight with you while Concord is blowing them away.
2Sonas1Cup wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Alpha != damage per second.
Raw damage or after resists?
This is still my second favourite Goons involved fail, no matter what is said, that video is hilarious. Lol
No matter what you say, most people will never grasp the concept of alpha damage in ganks because theyre stuck with DPS concept.
I have blopped into the middle of a fleet fight. I think I know what alpha damage is.
The post was not clear if he was just giving his raw calculations or had accounted for resists. It also talks about multiple cycles.

Going to watch the video for another laugh now. Blink


In our thrasher roams we've made heavy platted battleships melt under a couple volleys with enough of them.
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2015-04-09 21:36:14 UTC
It doesn't look like anyone has mentioned it but smart bombs AS FAR AS I KNOW do not do focused damage. If a ship is next to you and you fire the smart bomb you will not do the advertised damage as the damaged is spread over the advertised area. So you only do a percentage of the damage. That or the damage is divided by the number of ships in range.

I could be wrong though.