Player Features and Ideas Discussion

From my experience and from what people are saying, blops is the real threat because they can cyno friends anytime. Those being camped by afk cloaker, cannot have friends on standby 23/7. If it was a 1 on 1 fight, no one would have trouble with an afk cloaker.

Lots of people are against removing afk cloaking, so how about having a jammer that blocks covert cyno, same as how normal cyno can be blocked? If you can block normal and covert cyno, the only remaining options for cloakers/attackers is to come in via the conventional way or wormhole.

Introduce uncertainty? It already exists. This thread is the product of this fact. Pro AFK cloak support is based on the logic that PVE is a risk free activity. Isn't it hypocritical to say that, when the AFK person is by definition not at the keyboard and has no risk what so ever to be in danger while he/she is earning a paycheck from 8 to 5 in a cubical? (I give the players the benefit of the doubt that they moved out of moms basement after a decade of EvE).

Let me aks you and all Pro AFK cloakers this:

What if the module Fozzie mentioned briefly becomes a reality. The mobile cyno bridge projector, where you select a system and say a little prayer that yoru fleet lands in the desired space.

Imagine that alliances are a bit more concentrated, and generally heavy pve activity systems are known to the public.
Now imagine a cov ops ship scouting the place out in the previous day, bookmarking towers, pos or whatever structures we will have and points of interest for inner system warp.
Then a day later imagine a super awesome fleet of sabres, ceptors and various HAC's deploying the ninja summer salt cyno bridge projector to land in said system. Some ships will land a couple systems over or under, but 80% of the fleet lands at the sun. Bookmarks set for quick warps to points of interest, sabres bubble stuctures and gates, ceptors chack anoms.
For the arguments sake lets say 3 people were ratting and 2 had a cloak the carrier used all high slots for max isk/h. One BS leaves anom before anyone can get there goes to safe and cloaks, other BS tries to warp to pos, ups ther is a bubble. Carrier is too slow to align before a sabre lands on grid.

Would this scenario be a good replacement for the current status quo?

The uncertainty is still there, and even better since both parties have some by the nature of the random jump. If the fleet is made up of 5 people and only 2 land in the desired system, it might not work out for the aggressor as well.

If you want to play with no local go to WH. Ho yes less target. Why ? Because a lot of people don"t lie to have to d-scan every 2 sec for exemple. And yes people who rat in WH close the WH (they are in fleet in general like people in 0.0 ). They have no easy access to they're WH ... So they have no local but they have other way to defend against pvp.

So for you with local and without perma cloack no kill in 0.0? Did we play the same game ? How many people i.e. every day in 0.0 when people roam : A LOT. Nerf perma cloaking is to balances the game, actually risk fo perma cloak is new 0 to a great reward. We just want they take a risk to this reward , no more, no less.

Narrel : If pve ship take same risk as cloaquy ship you will have less 10 kill per day in 0.0 against pve player or miner.. Because you will make an indirect nerf to all other way to pvp.

The solution to balance game without burn all the game is simple : Give a counter to perma cloaking. I don't see why people cry after AFKtard or AFKminer and protect AFK cloack.
And AFTtard can play near 20 minute after no more win.
AFK miner near the same
AFK cloack: Effective H24.


aFk tard can be kill
AFK miner can be kil
AFK cloack can't be kill


AFK tard create content he can be hunt
AFK miner create content (ask CODE. for more detail).
AFK cloack just destroy content : they can't be hunt, they are a threat who make people stop activity they are not as stupid to continue to offer free kill, or they must wait to be enough to counter all kind of hot drop.

AFK pve is nerf by CCP yo have a lot of way to stop an AFK pve : Gate on mission, anomaly with some npc who engage you only when near to you and focus your drone etc...
AFK miner is nerf by CCP to : some NPC on belt kill the drone and after the mining barge, and some npc on belt are very strong (officier power).
AFK cloack: Need a nerf.



And all thing wo i have write are true local or not. So don't said to me remove local is the solution , local or not perma cloack must be nerf. After removing local just change one thing : People stop game/return to empire. Because if they can't play with no local they already are in WH .

Why in this debate are you comparing AFK miner with AFK cloaked?

An AFK miner IS making a reward, in ore, which they can turn around and sell for ISK. Sure, they need to pop back every so often, in order to target new asteroids, and dump their ore holds for pickup, but the ISK reward is clearly indicated.

The cloaked player is effectively logged out of the game, when they go AFK. They can't see events, they can't react, they don't make an income.
The major difference between an AFK cloaked player, and one who is logged out, is that the other players have no direct indicator that the AFK player is not present. The logged out player vanishes from being listed in local, which is a solid means of knowing they are not a threat.

When it is demonstrated, that player uncertainty has created content, and has every indication that it will keep such potential, logging out becomes painted as a content killer.
Sure, it means everyone knows that player won't be a threat while their name is missing, but that threatened encounter is CONTENT.

Does it not make more sense for PvE players to want better ways to enjoy that content, than to simply remove it from the game by default?

The AFK player can NOT ransom, without indicating that they are either active, (delivering a demand), or that they are planned to be active, and offering to ignore certain targets. (Ransom demand in in BIO, or similar discover-able method)
I can't begin to describe the transfer of control represented by such an agreement.

As to the AFK miner taking risk, that is on them. Being AFK is a choice, on that level.
Popping back every 15 minutes for 30 seconds of swapping targets and dumping an ore hold is pretty easy, you can set a recurring alarm for that and watch a movie or something on telly.
Systems expected to be secure can have multiple accounts multi-boxed to farm easy income with this.

If unchallenged, such security is more damaging to the game than any AFK cloaked player.

Mass control of multiple accounts by command echoing software was banned.

Multi-Boxing is perfectly fine, so long as you control each client independently of the others. Hence the timer being specifically useful here.

Considering the multi-boxer is making serious ISK, (they likely plex their account from such sales of ore), while the cloaked player is at best resetting a timer by interacting in a similar manner, these are not the same.

The income reward from the mining alone, defines that as being on a different level of play.

Just thought that last post deserved a bit more explanation....

Right now CCP watches the amount of isk flowing into the Eve economy, the primary source, by far, is rat bounties. Depending on how good your system is in Null you can go from haven, to sanctum to haven to sanctum without stopping. While missions provide some rat bounty incomes, not all do and the bounties are lower and you do have the down time when turning in missions as well as the LP which are actually a sink and where many mission runners make isk. So, it is likely the case that null sec rat bounties are a significant source of isk entering the eve economy.

Given that CCP watches this very closely I don't think CCP wants the flow of isk to increase, even slightly. After all, even a small increase would means hundreds of billions of additional isk entering the economy which could push inflation higher. In fact, CCP might be happy with reducing the flow of isk into the game, while still keeping it positive. Basically, shift the growth rate of the money supply closer to zero.

Now, based on reading lots of AFK cloaking threads and having my own, it seems pretty much the case that AFK cloakers do impact the flow of isk into the game. People complain about it vociferously. Even when suggestions for countering the AFK cloaker indirectly are suggested people still complain. Even after jump drive ranges have been nerfed meaning a reduction in Cyno Fear™ people still complain. Now admittedly I don't have access to these pilots wallets to make any sort of definitive analysis, but it seems reasonable based on the responses to conclude AFK cloaking does have at least some effect.

So, simply removing AFK cloaking will have a positive effect on the flow of isk into the Eve economy. Now, while the new sov change might reduce ratting I'm not sure it will. After all you can rat in systems where you do not have sov. What will likely happen in null is that many of income generating processes will likely move out of null. However, while these processes generate income for a corporation or an alliance it will not increase the supply of isk in the game. Reaction farms do not increase the money supply. Building stuff does not increase the money supply. Invention does not increase the money supply. Even moon mining does not increase the money supply. Mining does not increase the money supply. In fact, some of these things are probably better categorized as sinks. Invention actually costs isk to install any sort of job. As does manufacturing. If you pay any sort of taxes for refining that too is an isk sink. Since structures will be vulnerable to the entosis link, moving them out of null might be the general response. This however does not have any direct impact on ratting. You don't even really need a station if you have say an alt that can haul for you.

This is why I don't think Lucas Kell is correct when he says CCP will simply remove AFK cloaking. They might, but I doubt it. So depending on how the new observation platform works, it may very well be the case that CCP will do something to local or at least do something to keep the level of uncertainty similar or at least to keep the flow of isk the same. So everyone thinking that come June AFK cloaking is gone and you'll get even more uninterrupted ratting...you are, IMO, going to be disappointed.

I like this idea, a very constructive idea compared to the tears about people who are being cloaked.

On the contrary, the whole concept of the covert cyno is to get in behind enemy lines...

Oh FFS...friends 24/7?! Really? Please, you just need a few friends while ratting and they rat with you and you fly ships with more of a PvP fit. With 3-5 guys you wont need the dedicated rat tank and you'll burn through the anomalies. Seriously, engage the brain before posting on this one. This solution has been pointed out ever since AFK cloaking became a thing. Could they have 256 dudes in fleet? Yeah, but if you are that risk averse HS is -------> thataway.

And anything that simply reduces the risk of ratting in null is almost surely NOT going to be put in the game by CCP. Null ratting is the largest source of ISK entering the game economy and CCP IS concerned about inflation.

And yeah, the idea of a covert cyno is to get into enemy territory on the sly...so why are you supporting a module that reduces the ability to do that?

Edit:

To be clear, this is an indirect boost to ratting in null, and thus is an indirect boost to ratting ISK flowing into the economy. CCP is almost surely NOT going to do this. If you want to contribute in a meaningful way stop with the gimme goodies for less effort approach. It is lazy and at this point starting to get into stupidland.