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Learning skills: should they come back?

First post
Author
Keenan Lennelluc
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-04-08 19:04:45 UTC
I wanted to get peoples take on the old learning skills that were around when eve first started during the exodus times. skills that increased the speed of training and skills that added attribute points. They certainly helped new players with learning skills quicker and in the long run it could shave days off of the final training time. Should those be put back in the game?
arguments for? against? just trying to start a discussion.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#2 - 2015-04-08 19:06:04 UTC
Keenan Lennelluc wrote:
I wanted to get peoples take on the old learning skills that were around when eve first started during the exodus times. skills that increased the speed of training and skills that added attribute points. They certainly helped new players with learning skills quicker and in the long run it could shave days off of the final training time. Should those be put back in the game?
arguments for? against? just trying to start a discussion.


My argument is "Hell naw".
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#3 - 2015-04-08 19:13:34 UTC
instead of learning skills these days we just have more attribute points. also we now have the ability to remap to focus on a skill group for a long period.

tbh I don't care too much either way, as I pretty much have more SP than I know what to do with, but for the most part I think the answer of "hell naw" is applicable.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Jenshae Chiroptera
#4 - 2015-04-08 19:14:06 UTC
Quote:
Learning skills: should they come back?
No.
Implants should stay for holding up pod kills on the end of a stake.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#5 - 2015-04-08 19:19:09 UTC
Learning skills had the effect that some people actually maximized them first before they started to do some actuall skill training. Which means you had to wait for three months or so before you could actually start with useful skills.

And even if you did not maximize this skills, you had to sink some time into them for optimal training.

Actually the points from the skills are now permanent on every char, newbros included, so the new players where the big winners of this change.

I am glad they are gone, which actually allowed me to create this char without much of a headache.

tl;dr
No!
Complete Tart
#6 - 2015-04-08 19:21:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Complete Tart
Sure, just add another load of 'must train skills' making it longer for noobs to start training useful stuff.

Do you have any more bright ideas?
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#7 - 2015-04-08 19:25:53 UTC
Leaning skills allowed for what I call the Ant vs Grasshopper effect.. I for one in my younger pilot days knew that investing time in to learning skills would pay off later down the road. While my CEO at the time shunned them for more instant gratification base skills. And you know because of that I nearly caught up to him in skills points before learning skills were removed.

I personally liked that aspect of learning skills.

Take that as you may. *shrugs*

Keenan Lennelluc
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-04-08 19:32:25 UTC
Complete Tart wrote:
Sure, just add another load of 'must train skills' making it longer for noobs to start training useful stuff.

Do you have any more bright ideas?



awesome glad you approve. ill just add them into the game gimme a few days to write the scripts
Implying Implications
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2015-04-08 19:32:55 UTC
The learning skills removal was probably the best update since I started playing. I spent 5 or 6 weeks at the very beginning training the first tier skills up to 5 and the second tier to 4. No newbie should have to do that. Now CCP needs to remove attributes from the entire game.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#10 - 2015-04-08 19:34:37 UTC
Complete Tart wrote:
Sure, just add another load of 'must train skills' making it longer for noobs to start training useful stuff.

Do you have any more bright ideas?

That was the reason they were gotten rid of in the first place.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#11 - 2015-04-08 19:35:11 UTC
Krell Kroenen wrote:
Ant vs Grasshopper effect

Grasshopers complained about ants, so CCP made everyone a dung beetles.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#12 - 2015-04-08 19:45:36 UTC
At first I thought this thread to be a troll, until I saw the OP's lengthy and prestigious corp history.





Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#13 - 2015-04-08 19:55:04 UTC
Yes. They should also add an undocking skill, a turn left skill, a turn right skill, a skill that allows you to loot wrecks, a skill that increases the number of entries on your overview starting from a total of 1, and a skill to resize the client window.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#14 - 2015-04-08 20:05:56 UTC
Also going with hell no.

They probably drove more potential players away than anything else. Given that we still see people saying SP doesn't accumulate fast enough can you imagine those same people's reaction to several weeks of skill training to achieve the current rate?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

dark man Skord
Doomheim
#15 - 2015-04-08 20:09:34 UTC  |  Edited by: dark man Skord
Krell Kroenen wrote:
Leaning skills allowed for what I call the Ant vs Grasshopper effect.. I for one in my younger pilot days knew that investing time in to learning skills would pay off later down the road. While my CEO at the time shunned them for more instant gratification base skills. And you know because of that I nearly caught up to him in skills points before learning skills were removed.

I personally liked that aspect of learning skills.

Take that as you may. *shrugs*


I never once thought to myself that learning skills were bad as everyone made it out to be. Despite popular opinion, they were fair. If you chose to forego the training skills, such as your CEO, you would fall behind in SP. This created more diversity in general because it was up to the individual to decide where their account time should be focused into. Fact of the matter is, the change didn't make things fair. It made things better for those who chose not to train them for maximum efficiency. Such as your CEO. People like you, were worse off, comparatively, when these changes went into effect. Me personally, I didn't start training for said skills until I was a year old and I was able to do things other than fly a reaper. At the end of the day, those whining about it, from my perspective, were losers who couldn't be assed to make a sacrifice.

People love to say things like "Takes three months before I play the game", but the reality of the situation was completely untrue. They could have easily did what I did and still have fun and be successful without the learning skills. Instead, people thought it was unfair for whatever arbitrary reasons they may have had. It was their choice to spend all their scarce account time to train learning skills and then log off. They could have done alternative things, but they didn't. Instead of letting it fix itself, CCP caved to popular forum opinion. just as they did to titan nerfs and many other things. Everything the loud minority complained about, was usually another individual/group of people's hard work. To achieve, what people considered fair, was at the expense of others. No one ever really talks about that though. No one talks about how so and so made good choices that helped him get ahead in Eve.

But this shouldn't be too surprising in a video game. This sort of drivel goes on in the real world where real human lives suffer unnecessarily because of laws or rules passed to make things fair for one group of people at the expense of others instead of letting the free market do its thing. Nationality, race, religion, or any other label isn't excluded. Humans are all alike in this regard. It's why title, prestige, other social functions that put others on a pedestal have no meaning to me. Once one understand the true psychology of humans and how economics work, it's very easy to see where things are going to head before it happens despite popular opinion or criticisms. By all rights, you should have pulled ahead of your CEO and been a good example in using your scarce account time as an investment for yourself.

While yes, by design, it does seem pointless, that is something that should have been thought of before such a feature was ever implemented. But by removing them at a later date, you essentially punish those that had invested into it. Refunding skill points for said skills is worthless in the long run because every individual that had trained for the skills would have gotten a much larger return for their investment in the first place.

Anyway, I believe they shouldn't bring them back as it's too late and everybody as already adjusted to it. People need to learn to calm and control themselves and realize that things are not as bad as they think. I believe the direction Eve is heading into is far more dangerous for both CCP and the player base. I'm sure I'm not alone in this, but I started playing eve because of how "harsh" it could be. Overtime, through various changes imposed by CCP, I have lost a lot of love for this game. I still have quite a bit though because there have been changes that I consider good. But If I had to quantify it, I'd say I'm in the negative.

Regardless, a tl;dr: No, but not for the mundane reasons the majority of people have.
HiltoftheDragons
Grievance3
#16 - 2015-04-08 20:21:49 UTC
I had all the learning skils to 5 but i worked on them between core skills. I dont miss them one bit.

Destiny always seems decades away, but suddenly it's not decades away; it's right now. But maybe destiny is always right now, right here, right this very instant, maybe.

Angelica Everstar
#17 - 2015-04-08 20:30:24 UTC
NO WAY Roll

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Celise Katelo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2015-04-08 20:31:50 UTC
We need a skill for typing in the forums
We need a skill for typing in any chat channel in the game
We need a skill for typing in your Bio
We need a skill for typing A, E, I, O, U in all of the above Shocked

EVEBoard ...Just over 60million skill points, each skill was chosen for a reason. I closed my eyes & clicked another skill to train... "BINGO...!!!" ... "This time i got something usefull"

TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2015-04-08 20:32:55 UTC
What are you smoking, f*ck no!

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#20 - 2015-04-08 20:42:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Keenan Lennelluc wrote:
They certainly helped new players with learning skills quicker and in the long run it could shave days off of the final training time.
No, they didn't. The only helped new players quit the game because they had to choose between progressing slowly or having no useful skills. At no point did they do new players any good.

You have simply confused the learning skills with the mechanic that replaced them — the latter did actually help new players and shaved off days worth of training time.

The learning skills were a hideous, idiotic, pointless, and in every way retarded meta-mechanic that had no relevant connection to any part of the game, and were allowed to fester far too many years after the devs had correctly identified the fundamental design error behind them (which they did pretty much immedeately). They served no useful purpose whatsoever for anyone, and their removal was — by far — the best thing that has ever happened to the game.
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