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Concord should not protect POS, that ran out of charters.

Author
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#1 - 2015-04-08 08:03:23 UTC  |  Edited by: erg cz
Hi.

To be able to use POS in high sec you have to pat not only fuel but also race charter. After your POS run out of fuel, it goes off line. But what is the conciquence of running out of chart? I suggeest it would be not only going off line but also loosing CONCORD protection.

Right now to shoot down abandoned POS in high sec requires war dec the corp. Which costs money and time. I suggest CONCORD will stop protecting POSes, that ran out of charters. So we can shoot it straight away to clear the space. POS without charter payment lost its right to be there, IMHO.
Icebears
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2015-04-08 08:17:46 UTC
I suppose they should keep using Charts when offline too then (AFAIK they don't atm), but it sounds like a good solution to highsec pos clearing.
The POS owners should however be able to fight back, but I don't know if Limited Engagement with an entire corp works, or maybe a Suspect timer?
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#3 - 2015-04-08 08:25:35 UTC
I'd rather see a set of warnings over about 30 days that the empire will not tolerate unlicensed starbases, and then at the end of 30 days, active or inactive, it starts getting shot up by the empire police, with all the usual problems of fighting back.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Lugh Crow-Slave
#4 - 2015-04-08 08:44:00 UTC
or now here is a thought you can make the investment to war dec the corp that holds it if you want the moon


besides POS are on the way out anyway 2-3 more years and they should be gone no need to spend dev time to change it
Null Infinity
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2015-04-08 09:15:04 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:



besides POS are on the way out anyway 2-3 more years and they should be gone no need to spend dev time to change it


Who knows, maybe that unlicensed, out-of-chart POS problem will persist even in new structures. I mean - deal with it now, or we will face same problem later on anyway. Just instead of POS , space will be occupied by other player owned structure.

I think this is not about POS, it is about ppl exploiting that broken in-game mechanic.

New mining menthods: interactive mining and comet mining

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2015-04-08 09:18:24 UTC
Honest to god I thought the title was a typo for 'charges'.

Too far too long to realise they meant charters. More coffee!
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#7 - 2015-04-08 10:08:24 UTC
LE's don't work for whole corps, you get terrible things happening when there isn't a wardec with highsec aggression, as we discovered in live events. So.... yea nah.
Wardec them, if you care about the moon make an investment, if you just want green KB, pay for it.
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#8 - 2015-04-08 10:22:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Xe'Cara'eos
I believe that there should be a penalty above and beyond shut-down for a POS running out of charters......
perhaps:
run out of fuel - starbase shuts down
run out of charters - starbase keeps functioning, but loses empire protection

and the 2 fuels are consumed independently,
so as long as the POS is online, it uses fuel
as long as it's anchored in empire space, it uses charters

As for making an investment, well yeah, but you already have to devote a load of time to killing something that someone's potentially just left anchored to save the spot....

EDIT: however, as has been pointed out below empire=/=concord, so this was a bit of a stupid post, my bad.

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.

erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#9 - 2015-04-08 10:46:52 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
I'd rather see a set of warnings over about 30 days that the empire will not tolerate unlicensed starbases, and then at the end of 30 days, active or inactive, it starts getting shot up by the empire police, with all the usual problems of fighting back.


This is also a good option, but I believe some players would appreciate possibility to use abandoned tower for their killboard.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#10 - 2015-04-08 10:49:42 UTC
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
I believe that there should be a penalty above and beyond shut-down for a POS running out of charters......
perhaps:
run out of fuel - starbase shuts down
run out of charters - starbase keeps functioning, but loses empire protection

and the 2 fuels are consumed independently,
so as long as the POS is online, it uses fuel
as long as it's anchored in empire space, it uses charters

As for making an investment, well yeah, but you already have to devote a load of time to killing something that someone's potentially just left anchored to save the spot....

But Concord aren't the Empire protection. They are separate.
So if you do it that way, then sure, the Empire may take it down after 30 days or whatever time, though that's pretty ****** to someone who falls offline for some reason and comes back to a POS destroyed by NPC's. They could just dismantle it and store it in a hanger instead, frees the moon up without destroying peoples assets who are offline.

And if you want to build your Epeen up by pretending you are an awesome PvPer for shooting offline towers in highsec where no-one else can touch you..... yea, pay for that stuff.
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#11 - 2015-04-08 11:01:56 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
I believe that there should be a penalty above and beyond shut-down for a POS running out of charters......
perhaps:
run out of fuel - starbase shuts down
run out of charters - starbase keeps functioning, but loses empire protection

and the 2 fuels are consumed independently,
so as long as the POS is online, it uses fuel
as long as it's anchored in empire space, it uses charters

As for making an investment, well yeah, but you already have to devote a load of time to killing something that someone's potentially just left anchored to save the spot....

But Concord aren't the Empire protection. They are separate.
So if you do it that way, then sure, the Empire may take it down after 30 days or whatever time, though that's pretty ****** to someone who falls offline for some reason and comes back to a POS destroyed by NPC's. They could just dismantle it and store it in a hanger instead, frees the moon up without destroying peoples assets who are offline.

And if you want to build your Epeen up by pretending you are an awesome PvPer for shooting offline towers in highsec where no-one else can touch you..... yea, pay for that stuff.


actually - taking it down and storing it in the corp hangers is a much better idea, including the contents...

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#12 - 2015-04-08 11:12:48 UTC
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:

actually - taking it down and storing it in the corp hangers is a much better idea, including the contents...

Now that I have utterly no issue with at all.
Still leaves a window for corps who are hunting offline POS to find it and attack it with a wardec, but doesn't blow stuff up with NPC's while people are offline, and doesn't leave it there forever.
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#13 - 2015-04-08 12:15:27 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
, but doesn't blow stuff up with NPC's while people are offline,


That never was in any part of original suggestion.
Reina Xyaer
Tha Lench Mob
#14 - 2015-04-08 12:40:50 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

besides POS are on the way out anyway 2-3 more years and they should be gone no need to spend dev time to change it


2-3 more YEARS???

YEARS??

It sure as hell BETTER NOT take TWO... or THREE years (?!?!) to get rid of POSs and give us the new structures they just unveiled.
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#15 - 2015-04-08 14:13:11 UTC
Reina Xyaer wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

besides POS are on the way out anyway 2-3 more years and they should be gone no need to spend dev time to change it


2-3 more YEARS???

YEARS??

It sure as hell BETTER NOT take TWO... or THREE years (?!?!) to get rid of POSs and give us the new structures they just unveiled.


hey, this IS CCP, we'll probably have new structures in a year or two, and then another year for them to completely phase out POS's

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#16 - 2015-04-08 14:52:33 UTC
-1
Mechanics already exists to clear space of useless offline towers.

Nice way to do it. Convo the corp and ask them to remove it so you can have the moon.
EvE way to do it. WD and shoot the damned thing.

Players in this game put in the time and effort to earn the ISK to buy it and until recently they put in the time and effort to grind standing to be able to put it up. You do not deserve nor do you have a right to an easy button way to remove it.

And yes I have been in on many POS bashes in high sec, they are a grind and that is exactly the point I am making. Others put in the grind to place it you should have to put in the grind to remove it.
Null Infinity
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2015-04-08 15:04:17 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
-1
Mechanics already exists to clear space of useless offline towers.

That is just a workaround for the apparently broken in-game mechanic. It is not a "Mechanics to clear space", it is a stupid wd and shoot action. All you need is ISK and 24 hours for wd to become valid. Where you see 'mechanics'?

Donnachadh wrote:

Nice way to do it. Convo the corp and ask them to remove it so you can have the moon.

Dead corp will not answer.

Donnachadh wrote:

Others put in the grind to place it you should have to put in the grind to remove it.

It is not about grind, learn to read pls. It is about need to charge 50+ mio ISK and wait 24 hours to be able to do very same thing - shoot the POS. And since you try not to look like 'a looser who put ISK into broken mechanic instead of changing it' but as fair guy, how about this: other players invest ISK into charters to keep their POS work and protected by CONCORD, why someone should parasite on this keeping their un-chartered POS CONCORD protected just as well?

New mining menthods: interactive mining and comet mining

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#18 - 2015-04-08 15:22:04 UTC
If you don't have 50mil isk to spare and 24 hours exceeds the limits of your patience (and I really am trying to help you here) then maybe POS ownership isn't for you.

Fuel is a large and constant expense. >>>>>50 mil isk

Setting up even basic reactions more tedious than setting up PI. >>>>> waiting 24 hrs

Another way to look at it. The owner claimed the moon and put up a POS. He invested time, effort and expense. Wardeccing him allows a chance to defend his stuff.

If the guy is no longer in game, it's just 50mil and 24 hours. Over the course of your eve lifetime - probably 2 small drops in a very large bucket.

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#19 - 2015-04-09 02:03:33 UTC
Null Infinity wrote:
That is just a workaround for the apparently broken in-game mechanic. It is not a "Mechanics to clear space", it is a stupid wd and shoot action. All you need is ISK and 24 hours for wd to become valid. Where you see 'mechanics'?

It is not a workaround, it currently is and always has been the mechanic in the game by which you can remove a POS that bothers you. Don't want to WD and shoot a POS then move on and find another moon to put yours up at.

Null Infinity wrote:
dead corp will not answer.

And a dead corp will offer no resistance to removing the POS. And if the corp is dead you will not have to worry about the defenses as there will not be any all of which makes your job easier.

Null Infinity wrote:
It is not about grind, learn to read pls. It is about need to charge 50+ mio ISK and wait 24 hours to be able to do very same thing - shoot the POS.

I did read, you want a POS to be removed from space because the owners do not keep charters in it. In other words you want the game to do your dirty work for you and remove the POS because you are to cheap and to lazy to do it yourself and my answer is NO. If you want it gone WD the corp and remove it, because you see this is not about the end results it is all about how you get there.

Null Infinity wrote:
And since you try not to look like 'a looser who put ISK into broken mechanic instead of changing it' but as fair guy, how about this: other players invest ISK into charters to keep their POS work and protected by CONCORD, why someone should parasite on this keeping their un-chartered POS CONCORD protected just as well?

Concord only offers protection if you are an idiot and attack the POS with out filling a WD. File a WD and Concord becomes a non-issue as your 50 mil causes Concord to turn a blind eye to your actions.

You say it is not about the grind and you are wrong, it is all about the grind.
If the POS has been there more than a year then at some point in time PLAYERS had to GRIND the standings to be able to place that POS. They had to GRIND to earn the ISK to buy the POS.
If it was put up after the standings changes then PLAYERS still had to GRIND to make the ISK to buy the POS.
Either way PLAYERS had to grind in some fashion to place it where you found it an if you want it removed then you have to PAY and you have to GRIND to accomplish that goal.
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#20 - 2015-04-09 07:05:18 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
, you want a POS to be removed from space because the owners do not keep charters in it. In other words you want the game to do your dirty work for you and remove the POS because you are to cheap and to lazy to do it yourself


I just want to stress once again, that OP is not about "POS to be removed from space" for me. POS should stay there so everyone can shoot it. Just not CONCORD protected any more.

Why I have to pay with charters for my POS to be there, if the guy next door has its POS ready to online any time without paying a single ISK?
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