Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I'm sorry, but as I said - it's not hilariously exploitable. It can be circumvented, but that does require sitting in an orca with security set to yellow which is something any 'responsible' carebear will not do in the first place. Also, what you are describing are very particular cases which could hardly become the norm.


Why do you think that this would "lower" the content? Are you suggesting that increasing risks for gankers would reduce their wilingness to gank? Are you suggesting that gankers are *gulp* risk averse ???


Logoffski was a mechanic, warping under gcc was a mechanic, garage door cynos is gonna be an ex mechanic soon. They were not wrong, they were just mechanics. Emphasis is on were.

Let me set this straight - I'm not against ganking, on the contrary, I support its existence as a content providing mechanic. However, I don't like completely illogical mechanics - if you argue that concord should not react instantly in ganks since it's not realistic (police in rl parallel) and don't mind for the fact that -10 chars can move through hisec due to same lag in response time, then you have to agree that concord allowing for nabbing the guy who scooped the diamonds off the knocked out lady on the floor while not allowing the same for his mates in the car whom he threw the diamonds to before getting beaten by the crowd is silly.
However, you obviously don't want your little safety net taken away from you. Where's the anti risk averse crowd when you need it, eh?

I find the thought of using that loophole quite amusing.

But you have to realize you are adding a tool - a non-obvious loophole in the Crimewatch system - that will be used against carebears and new players that will get people destroyed. Your "receive stolen goods" pop-up idea might mitigate that somewhat as at least then you would require an active action to go suspect, but it is not the most elegant addition to the game, and one that won't solve your basic issue as the flag could easily be avoided by using a jetcan or other container to launder the loot before putting it in the get-away ship.

The better way to do it would be to have some "stolen" flag on the items that anyone who possessed would be considered fair game. Then the game could better track the "intentions" of the loot thieves and keep them suspect no matter what they do to launder the items until they say, dock at a station. The problem is that there no easy way to track that currently and would require far too much developer time for such a niche aspect of the game. Fozzie did say at Fanfest they wanted to increase the ways people could steal from each other, so perhaps at some point in the future something like that could happen but I doubt it is a high priority.


Of course. Increasing the risks/costs on gankers will result in less of them doing it. It is not that difficult a concept. We've seen that many times already with the insurance nerfs, EHP buffs and CONCORD response time reductions each time reducing the number of gankers in the game.

Any activity in the game is going to be influenced by how lucrative it is. If gankers made no money at the activity because it was impossible to recover the loot, then they would mostly stop doing it. I'm not saying your idea does this - actually even if implemented I don't think it would have any effect as they would just use an intermediate container to launder the goods at minimal additional risk - but generally ideas proposed to lower the profitability or increase the cost of ganking usually are trying to achieve a reduction in the amount of ganking rather than making the game better.

CCP likes ganking and intends for it to be in the game. If they change their minds there are far easier and effective ways to reduce ganking than playing with looting mechanics.

The mechanic is what it is. You steal some loot you have a 15 minute suspect timer. What happens next is not the concern of CONCORD most simply because the game lacks the ability to track what happens after that initial crime. I can handwave a silly roleplay explanation for that if it makes you feel better, but the reality is that there is no way for the game to tell if any specific item has been stolen or not. So just chalk it up to "emergent gameplay" and deal with it the best you can with the current rule-set like the rest of us.

My understanding is that they are dragging from the wreck directly to the fleet hanger. The intermediate ship flags, but never actually has the loot, which is immediately and safely laundered into the fleet hanger.

Thus there is never an occasion where the flashy yellow legal target ever can drop the loot.

Should this be inaccurate and they need to buffer via their own hold first, I don't see the problem.

I DO understand the problem with the former, however. It'd be like assigning drones and only the bunny flagging

I don't even know where to begin with this. Let's start with having to leave your whole black ops fleet on grid to protect a hauler from rogue interceptor or two in lowsec while it decloaks to pick up the loot from a recent gank.

I wouldn't call a simple if-then re-engineering. As for the risks, you seem to be in the averse bunch on this topic.

Why would I shoot if I can loot, bro.
Doesn't make it a good mechanic, though.

There was a discussion about good and bad mechanics up this thread so look that up.
This particular mechanic is working 100% to my benefit, since I can make isk with 0% risk, but - as I already said, that does not make it a good mechanic.

You're asking the wrong question.

Where is the risk without it?

The risk in ganking is exactly what our various detractors are willing to inflict upon us.

Risk vs. reward generally applies to income generation activities, PvE mostly. PvP is inherently different, as it relies heavily on interactions between players to generate destruction of assets.

If I am sitting in a mission pocket flagged, and the mission runner does not choose to attack me, am I still alive because my risk level is broken? No, it's because the other player refuses to inflict the available consequences upon me.

The game is not broken because some people insist on only playing half of it.

This doesn't answer the question or quantify the risk in any way, have you ever considered a career in politics? :D



If you are ganking for profit (hauler ganking or miner destruction for market generation) then it is all about income generation. Most people consider the risk to the ganker in terms of assets (minimal as all cheap ships are used in the process), and also in terms of consequences as the gankers typically sit in NPC corps.


For this to be relevant you have to be in hisec and there is no reason for the mission runner to fire upon you unless you are interfering with their mission (or they don't realize it's a gank trap). They have no reason to engage, but also no recourse to complain should you steal the mission loot/objective and they do nothing about it.


This can equally be applied to those who will only PvP and hold those who PvE in disdain.