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[Feedback Wanted] Time Zone Mechanics Survey

First post First post
Author
Koebmand
Silverflames
#141 - 2015-03-28 20:10:40 UTC
Starting taking the survey but had to give too many answers I didn't really mean (like picking a time zone that didn't match when I was online).

Eve is a global game, don't start separating us into time-shards.
Miner Hottie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2015-03-29 02:02:39 UTC
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
Tex Steele wrote:
First, I think that CCP will ram the change they want down our throats, regardless of what we say here or any feedback we provide. I have not seen them listen to us yet in almost 5 years.

That could not be further from the truth. CCP have been listening to the players more now than ever. And making decisions based on our feedback and ideas. Why would you say such a thing that is an obvious lie? Straight


Yes, although confirmation bias means they can be intentionally or unintentionally selective about who they listen too and what they take away from that discussion.

It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#143 - 2015-03-29 20:35:47 UTC
Miner Hottie wrote:
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
Tex Steele wrote:
First, I think that CCP will ram the change they want down our throats, regardless of what we say here or any feedback we provide. I have not seen them listen to us yet in almost 5 years.

That could not be further from the truth. CCP have been listening to the players more now than ever. And making decisions based on our feedback and ideas. Why would you say such a thing that is an obvious lie? Straight


Yes, although confirmation bias means they can be intentionally or unintentionally selective about who they listen too and what they take away from that discussion.

Looks like someone actually fell for it.

The "you're all winners on the forums" => *change nothing*

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Miner Hottie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2015-03-30 06:28:12 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Miner Hottie wrote:
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
Tex Steele wrote:
First, I think that CCP will ram the change they want down our throats, regardless of what we say here or any feedback we provide. I have not seen them listen to us yet in almost 5 years.

That could not be further from the truth. CCP have been listening to the players more now than ever. And making decisions based on our feedback and ideas. Why would you say such a thing that is an obvious lie? Straight


Yes, although confirmation bias means they can be intentionally or unintentionally selective about who they listen too and what they take away from that discussion.

Looks like someone actually fell for it.

The "you're all winners on the forums" => *change nothing*


"Thanks you for your feedback, one of our service team will review and collate your feedback soon" = "Bwahahha thanks for coming dupe, this feedback looks good printed on rolls of toilet paper!"

It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.

Kon Kre8r
#145 - 2015-03-31 19:10:41 UTC
PLEASE -- do not tell us we can build and destroy anything and then tell us But we Can NOT do so at this time!

Black Ops ships using Covert Jump Portals with Covert Cynos are NOT allowed to use Covert Cloaks. That makes sense.

DooDoo Gum
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#146 - 2015-03-31 22:23:14 UTC
Ransu Asanari wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
BURN Stront. Something that is heavy , and hard to move.
All my words NO. Stront is a painful mechanic as it exists today with POS. The burden on logistics groups to manage structures will be even worse if this mechanic is introduced to sov gameplay.

We need a simplified mechanic that requires less individual structure micro-management, that can be done REMOTELY. Having to fly to every individual structure to set a timer, and babysit it is not good gameplay.


If you cant be bothered protecting it, then you shan't be allowed to keep it
Worrff
Enterprise Holdings
#147 - 2015-04-01 08:52:20 UTC
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
Tex Steele wrote:
First, I think that CCP will ram the change they want down our throats, regardless of what we say here or any feedback we provide. I have not seen them listen to us yet in almost 5 years.

That could not be further from the truth. CCP have been listening to the players more now than ever. And making decisions based on our feedback and ideas. Why would you say such a thing that is an obvious lie? Straight



You are clearly new here.

CCP are keen to give the APPEARANCE that they listen to the players, when in fact they do not.

Countless times, they have asked for feedback, had 100 page threads on the test server forum, only to ignore it all and do what they want anyway. This is frequently followed by months of “iterations” to get the new “feature” in a half useable state, at which point, they just ignore the rest of the problems with it and move on to breaking something else.

So, while its really cute that you think they listen, you couldn’t actually be further from the truth.

CCP Philosophy: If it works, break it. If it’s broken, leave it alone and break something else.

Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#148 - 2015-04-01 13:56:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
To be fair, when we asked for a RLML bonus on the Rook in the Combat Recon thread, we actually did get one, even if it was an indirect and limited one.

When people cried about the jump fatigue changes for Jump Freighters, CCP dialed it back, giving a 90% reduction to fatigue on jump freighters.

So its not fair to say CCP never listens.

edit: There was no place to indicate what I actually thought of the time zone mechanic as proposed. So here goes.

The mechanic is extremely limiting and benefits the defender in the extreme. Set vulnerability timer to some really strange time frame like central pacific / very late US / Alaska TZ and just lol as no one can ever take your space.

It also takes no advantage of indexes to make it better. For example, what about starting with a very wide vulnerability time, and narrowing it as the strategic index grows? Or something.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#149 - 2015-04-01 19:09:20 UTC
It does seem unfair that the AUTZ always gets the downtime.

Can we have a 25 hour clock on downtimes please.

Now there's a thought - could we make the invulnerability timers work on a 25 hour clock as well - If you occupy a system adjusting the settings would be a simple task ... of course if your not in the system and don't change them you could run into trouble.
Wizzard117
Wizzard117 Corporation
#150 - 2015-04-02 13:03:44 UTC
My 0.02 isk

Current time-zone system proposes multiple unfair defensive advantages
1. Attackers cannot attack defenders in any other time than defender's "free attack" time. It is almost surely that attacking window is defender's prime time window so they come prepared.
2. Attackers will come prepared only if their time zones match with defender time zone. In case when time zones doesn't match attackers will have disadvantages
3. In any other time defenders are guaranteed to be completely invulnerable regardless of attacker's will

However random timer is bad as well and does not really fit any of the sides

I'm proposing a mixed approach of "controlled randomness" over time zone
1. Defenders still pick their desired time zone say 4 hours from say 5:00 to 9:00
2. There is only 50% chance that actual "free attack" timer occurs within this timer
3. If that's not the case
a) there's a chance that timer will be shifted by 1 hour back or forward
b) there's lesser chance that timer will be stretched by 1 hour back or forward
c) there's much higher chance that timer stays the same
4. Timer shifting/stretching may occur once again infinitely many times with less and less chance

Examples (assume default time zone for defenders is 5:00AM to 9:00AM)
1. Everything goes as it should so the next day timer will remain untoched
2. RNGod wasn't smiling on defenders this day so their timer is shifted by 1 hour forward and now is 6:00AM to 10:00AM
3. RNGod was angry at the defenders so their timer is shifted by 2 hours back and streched by 1 hour forward and now is 3:00AM to 8:00AM
4. There was 0.01% (say) chance of timer going completely nutz and that has happened: now they have to defend their system within 5:00PM to 9:00PM

What this solution will achieve and why is it better than both newly proposed and old (attack at any time) options
1. It elimitates "double invulnerability" windows like alliance A living closer to alliance B but they can't do anything to each other because of completely different time zones. More action as a result
2. It keeps relative freedom in planning what to do and when whether this is ingame or not.
3. It gives a rare opportunity to do something really devastating to another alliance in case that timer favours attackers but not defenders
SilentAsTheGrave
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#151 - 2015-04-06 09:14:21 UTC
Worrff wrote:
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
Tex Steele wrote:
First, I think that CCP will ram the change they want down our throats, regardless of what we say here or any feedback we provide. I have not seen them listen to us yet in almost 5 years.

That could not be further from the truth. CCP have been listening to the players more now than ever. And making decisions based on our feedback and ideas. Why would you say such a thing that is an obvious lie? Straight



You are clearly new here.

CCP are keen to give the APPEARANCE that they listen to the players, when in fact they do not.

Countless times, they have asked for feedback, had 100 page threads on the test server forum, only to ignore it all and do what they want anyway. This is frequently followed by months of “iterations” to get the new “feature” in a half useable state, at which point, they just ignore the rest of the problems with it and move on to breaking something else.

So, while its really cute that you think they listen, you couldn’t actually be further from the truth.

CCP asked for feedback on the Entosis Link and I suggested this:
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
Just reposting what seems to have gained some traction in case it was lost in the pages:

In regards to the Entosis Link using fuel:

I think this is a good idea. Using one Strontium every time you turn the module on would do a few good things.

As Mike pointed out earlier along with the original people I'm sure; it would mean there is some form of logistics taking place to contest these systems. Especially when it comes to the outer lying systems.
Smaller ships, such as interceptors *hint hint*, will have to be somewhat selective on what systems to contest and how many times they are willing to try to contest it. If they find themselves dealing with actual defenders active in the system and negating their Entosis Link with their own, they will have wasted time and will need to move on.
Even if super zippy, untouchable (allegedly... ) ships do their thing, they can only do it so long before they run out of fuel.
The defenders have the luxary of nearby stations and POS's that are common for alliances that own sov to resupply their Entosis Links.
Overdrive Injectors, which is used to gain fast speed, have a penalty to cargo space. Food for thought.
If players do not like the idea of having to resupply so often with small fast ships, they can use larger ships with bigger cargo bays. These larger ships tend to be much, much slower than tiny fast frigates. Getting the picture now?

What the over all effect is it still means abandoned systems can still be captured just as easy as this new sov system wants, without having to subject itself to the mythical Trollceptors that terrorize the dreams of certain groups.

What are your thoughts?

Then when CCP posted another thread with the revised Entosis Link, it included them using 1 Strontium as per my suggestion. You can see this here:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
T1 Entosis Link:

Requires Infomorph Psychology 1
+250,000 mass when online
5 Minute Cycle Time, 25km range
10 PWG, 1 CPU
50 Capacitor per cycle (0.1666 cap/s)
Consumes 1 Stront per cycle


T2 Entosis Link:
Requires Infomorph Psychology 4
+1,000,000 mass when online
2 Minute Cycle Time, 250km range
100 PWG, 10 CPU
500 Capacitor per cycle (4.166 cap/s)
Consumes 1 Stront per cycle

And to think this is just from my feedback along with what I took from others in the thread. I know this really deflates your whole argument that CCP never listens, but perhaps you should calm it down with the rabble. Who knows, maybe even contribute in these feedback threads in a constructive way instead spreading all kinds of doom and gloom. Idea
Dave stark
#152 - 2015-04-06 13:12:27 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
It does seem unfair that the AUTZ always gets the downtime.

Can we have a 25 hour clock on downtimes please.

Now there's a thought - could we make the invulnerability timers work on a 25 hour clock as well - If you occupy a system adjusting the settings would be a simple task ... of course if your not in the system and don't change them you could run into trouble.


having some poor guy run around every week adjusting timers is fun for nobody, especially the guy who has to go around and change a bunch of timers.

it serves no purpose than to annoy people and won't promote any content what so ever.
Shaklu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#153 - 2015-04-06 18:57:53 UTC
I like the idea of prime time vulnerability.. it would allow people to not have to worry so much if they are a smaller corp about keeping things secure while you sleep. I do see some issues with it, though. If someone wants to take your space but their prime time is much different than yours, it will be super difficult. So why not use war decs to fix that?

If you want to attack someone, even in null security, then you declare war on them. It starts a 24 hour timer, and alerts the defender that war is coming. Once war is declared both the defenders and offenders structures are vulnerable during each other's prime times. Defending corps can still add people to their corp, but the offenders can't (making it so you don't just have alts declare war and then bring in a ton of people to blap it all).

This would mean that the defenders can take out the attackers structures and defend their own during prime time, while the attackers can also take a shot during their time slot.

Not a perfect solution, but sure beats structure grinding and stront timers etc.

It would be cool to see who is actually fighting whom as far as the big alliances go. Perhaps you could make it so neither corp could add members unless the war was mutual. The vulnerability would only be effective for people in the offending corporation, otherwise it would remain safe from neutral parties except during the normal prime time slot of the defender.
Hicksimus
Torgue
#154 - 2015-04-07 12:37:05 UTC
I can't be bothered to read about this but I'd want to only see active systems have an invulnerability period. I know flying around with Razor that there were only 5 systems that could be called active and those should be VERY hard to take but they had a pile of systems where the only activity was the occasional patrolling prober(blue closer to active systems, usually neutral further away) and that space should be able to be flipped EXTREMELY quickly.

Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you? Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.

Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#155 - 2015-04-08 09:04:11 UTC
I mentioned this in my survey response but I'll repeat it again here - one thing that POS warfare provided but is missing from both the current and proposed future of sovereignty is the ability to affect the timing of a decisive battle through strontium management and "kiting" of POS shots to delay the reinforcement timer. Warfare is much more interesting when it includes the possibilities for misdirection and human error, and simply allowing the defender to pick a fixed time and have their structures invulnerable for the remaining 20 hours is disappointingly limited.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#156 - 2015-04-08 13:56:48 UTC
Hicksimus wrote:
I can't be bothered to read about this but I'd want to only see active systems have an invulnerability period. I know flying around with Razor that there were only 5 systems that could be called active and those should be VERY hard to take but they had a pile of systems where the only activity was the occasional patrolling prober(blue closer to active systems, usually neutral further away) and that space should be able to be flipped EXTREMELY quickly.


Agreed. I'm very excited for the new sov changes. I bet CCP will be watching closely to see that those systems that should be flipped quickly do in fact flip. Or, the ultimate goal of forcing inhabitants to change, and actively defend their space on the new meta.

CCP 1
Weaponized boredom 0
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#157 - 2015-04-08 14:14:38 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
Hicksimus wrote:
I can't be bothered to read about this but I'd want to only see active systems have an invulnerability period. I know flying around with Razor that there were only 5 systems that could be called active and those should be VERY hard to take but they had a pile of systems where the only activity was the occasional patrolling prober(blue closer to active systems, usually neutral further away) and that space should be able to be flipped EXTREMELY quickly.


Agreed. I'm very excited for the new sov changes. I bet CCP will be watching closely to see that those systems that should be flipped quickly do in fact flip. Or, the ultimate goal of forcing inhabitants to change, and actively defend their space on the new meta.

CCP 1
Weaponized boredom 0


Perhaps the window of opportunity should shrink with activity metrics?

So the vulnerability window of a window starts at 12 hours but if you have active pilots in the system it goes down to 4 hours.

Not today spaghetti.

Veronica Vampire
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#158 - 2015-04-09 10:44:26 UTC
Lokitoki81 wrote:
Move russians and aussies to chinese servers.

problem solved

lol.
Callduron
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#159 - 2015-04-16 18:21:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Callduron
Add me to the attack any time, defend in the window camp. The poco model.

It's potentially very boring if the neighbours simply don't have windows in my time. I can mess with their station service, gate camp or cloaky camp but that's not why people are drawn to sov. In a big multi-timezone alliance like BRAVE it's possible that both the people we're attacking and our own defensive timers are not available to our EU and AU minorities.

That's pretty dull game play.

I do appreciate that that would slant gameplay in favour of attackers so some defensive buff (like doubling the base time on entosis operation) could be needed to help defenders.

I don't think it's terrible for a national alliance to wake up in the morning and find all their stuff reinforced then have to defend in their strongest time with 36 hours notice.

I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/

I post on reddit as /u/callduron.

Strange Shadow
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#160 - 2015-04-17 04:35:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Strange Shadow
Simple proposition:

Make Enthosis Link use different kinds of ammo. Not just stront, but something else too:

Ammo type 1: Work as it is now (contest structure), can only be used when structure is in vulnerable TZ.

Ammo type 2: Adjust vulnerability time. Can be used any time, on any structure. Will adjust vulnerability window for the next day to the current time, so attacker can try to capture things in his own TZ tomorrow. COUNTER: defender can use same ammo type on same structure again, anytime, to restore vulnerability TZ back to his own.

Possible other types of ammo effects:
- temporarily lower SOV indexes (next 24h);
- make a protection layer (next Enthosis link activated on this structure next 24h will burn out, like from overheat, at the end of "warm up" cycle, doesnt matter if its structure owner's link or not);
- other nice temporary buffs/debuffs. Not too many (will be too complex), but mild complexity would add some variation, for the small scale assaults at least.