Intergalactic Summit

I hardly need to. You make a fool of yourself enough for t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶o̶t̶h̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶u̶s̶ the entire IGS.

Whilst I agree that there is much on the Malkalen Incident that is not known, it is a mistake to claim that the Federation does not bear a large degree of the responsibility for it. The pilot of the Wandering Saint was a Gallente Navy Admiral (retired) and he and his fleet was in Malkalen as peace envoys. The pilot of the Nyx was unquestionably Alexander Noir and the voice that denounced the State and claimed the attack as payback for Nouvelle Rouvenor was also his.

Now, a Federal Navy Admiral and official peace envoy is unquestionably AN individual, but I think it's a big mistake to claim that he is nothing more than an individual. He arrived as an ambassador for the Federation and he committed a murderous atrocity in the Federation's name and, if I and others find it hard to look past that point to the tinfoil hattery that can be found in conspiracy town, you'll have to excuse us.

That said, since the attack took place while the Federation's delegation was actually on the station and since that delegation included several senior figures in the Federal government I am completely willing to agree that Noir represented a minority wing of the Federation.

As for Heth's move to seize Home on the back of the Malkalen incident, it may well have been opportunistic, but it can hardly be argued that blowing up a peace summit isn't a casus belli which can be layered on top of the original casus belli that is Caldari Prime. The fact that the Federal government immediately repudiated a peace agreement of it's own on Roden's ascension to the Presidency doesn't lend much further credence to your claims of Caldari hypocrisy. I understand that it's easy to beat up on Diana Kim - her hate makes her so vulnerable and badly clouds her logic and whatever Achuran hell she was raised in hasn't done much to sharpen her command of logical debate - but before you start assigning blame for where we find ourselves to the Caldari people, it's wise to look at all the causes and events - and to remember that when our mad dog got a little bit too... mad... we took him out back and shot him.

As regards the Wandering Saint...

It's perfectly reasonable to propose that Noir did not represent the official intention of the Federation Government. It is even possible to propose that Noir was somehow replaced or controlled.

But it should also be very hard to conclude that Noir could possibly have acted alone.

For the Wandering Saint to have rammed the Ishukone HQ, three things were necessary. First, that Noir attempt it. Second, that no one on board the vessel used be able to stop it. Third, that the station be rendered vulnerable by the sabotage of its shield systems. The first is relatively easy, the second two...less so.

We are all familiar with the override command CONCORD possesses to lock down a capsuleer ship for destruction after violation of the rules of High Security zones. I find it nearly impossible to believe that neither CONCORD nor the Federation Navy possesses any such capability on Federation Navy ships. Even if that is the case, one suspects that the crew of the Wandering Saint would have been able to at least sabotage the drives or maneuvering thrusters, given that there was enough time to begin an evacuation of the station. Something must have prevented them - unless you want to posit that most of the personnel aboard sincerely wanted to go along with Noir.

Second, it can hardly be an accident that the station shields went down shortly after the arrival of the Federation contingent. Garuishi was a well-loved CEO, and especially well loved by Ishukone personnel. It is unlikely that an Ishukone employee or a single individual could have managed the sabotage of such a critical and robust piece of machinery. However, the arrival of the Federation diplomatic corp would have been the perfect opportunity for an black-ops team to also come aboard, without the knowledge or agreement of the doomed diplomatic contingent or the Federation military as a whole.

Of course, the Federation has been known to try this sort of thing before, such as in the Kassigainen Incident where they attempted the invasion of a Caldari station, but in this case it's very probable that the Federation Government as a whole had no knowledge.

Who, then, is responsible? Certainly not the Caldari, or the megacorps, who had had no ambition to harm their business efforts by a sudden and unprofitable war. Probably not Tibus Heth, who possessed neither the intelligence nor the cunning for such a plan, which in the end did not benefit him, either. Not Ishukone, and not the Caldari Navy, who have historically based themselves on a tradition of defensive warfare. It's not even good for the State's military-industrial complex, since the corporations that make the hardware are also the ones funding the buying of it. There's no profit in selling weapons to yourself.

Nor has the Federation benefited. Black Rise is barely inhabited, while the Federation systems in the war include some core worlds. The Federation economy ((taken from EvE:Source)) has stagnated, even as the Caldari economy has rebounded since the removal of Heth. And the long, drawn out war that is occurring is historically very bad for the Federation Military.

In fact, the only real long-term beneficiaries of this war seem to be Federation Arms Manufacturers, which have also proved somehow magically immune to any constraints the government might have wanted to put on them.

Make of that what you will.

These last few posts concerning the Malkalen deserve credit for being some of the most sober I've read on the IGS in a long time. I suppose that with the benefit of hindsight and as the emotional edge has dulled our insight has grown. At the same time, the further we move from that tragedy, the further the ripples of consequence have spread from Malkalen's origin. Whatever plots were in motion, they've surely been swept away in the subsequent chaos by now.

As for the ancient history that is the origin of the First Gallente - Caldari War, I think we'de probably all be better served working towards a settlement than fighting the same battles over again.

However, one part of the discussion is one I've thought deserves a particular focus, and that's the dispute over Caldari right to withdraw from the Federal Charter. Constitutional scholars in the Federation argue about the issue of secession to this day, and the Caldari Secession hardly settled the matter. One only has to look at the fraught debates over Intaki to see that the topic remains controversial.

Clearly, there was no existing legal process by which the Caldari were able to divest themselves from the Charter. It is my view that many in the Federation would condemn any process the Caldari had attempted to leave the Federation as criminal, which had the unfortunate effect of lending supposed legitimacy to those Caldari who claim force was their only option.

I say both those sides were / are wrong.

Long story short: the Caldari should have held a democratic referendum clearly within the bounds of Federation electoral law. Yes, Democracy is the Gallente way... not the Caldari. Yes, the Federal Government might have callously rejected the legitimacy of such a referendum, but in the eyes of most of the people of the Federation such a referendum would have made clear the will of their Caldari neighbors. Let us not forget, there was a substantial Unionist faction of Caldari Megacorporations. How were we to know who truly represented the will of the Caldari society?

As the Gallente saw things, there was a radical militant Caldari Separatist movement and there were also Caldari Citizens of the Federation. Until that question was answered, it was the duty of the elected representatives of the Federated Union to protect the rights of every Citizen of the Federation.

Call that paternalistic interference or whatever else as you like, it is dishonest not to acknowledge that at least part of what motivated the Federal government was protection of people's rights the Gallente perceived as being trampled by the Secessionist Megas.

So, what is the lesson here? For the Gallente, I believe we need to be more open minded to the differences in which other cultures legitimately represent the will of their societies. For the Caldari, if you want peace try to understand how to communicate with others in terms they can relate to.

Good, it is pleasing to see more reasonable discourse on the topic for a change. We appear to be making headway.

I have nothing really further to contribute, most of what has been said is within the realm of logic and reason and I do not disagree with it on a whole.

You would be surprised how many pilots, even though they participate actively or passively in the FDU, deep down just want to see some real peace between our two nations.

Seeing Pieter's response to Rinai makes me think he is a man I wouldn't mind sitting down and having a drink with.

Honestly, as much as I hope for eventual peace, there are reasons to fight. In my view the Caldari State would not be at the negotiating table over Caldari Prime were it not for military setbacks at the hands of the Federation Navy during Operation Highlander and FDU victories in the warzone.

No. It wasn't.

Actually, it doesn't. Many Federal citizens are willing to concede that bombing the frak out of Caldari Prime and kicking the Caldari off their own homeworld was NOT a proportionate response. I will admit that opinion on many more acts - such as Tovil Toba's decision to ram Gallente Prime with his carrier - are subject to factional loyalties.

Funny story, there's more then 2 sides to every war. The citizens may not approve of it, but the brass obviously didn't feel the same. And I'm sure there are actions taken by your government that were not popular with the people either.