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Battleship rebalence what happened - CCP care to comment?
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#21 - 2015-04-01 03:07:30 UTC
Phig Neutron wrote:
They probably just need a bit more tank, or a bit lower price tag.

Pirate Battleships have actually dropped quite a bit in price, to the point where I think they're reasonably priced for what you get (the Nestor could stand to see an increase in BPC drops to bring the cost down a few hundred million ISK). Where I think Battleships could really benefit is with a 50% reduction in the LP/associated cost for Faction variants so that they're available around the mid three hundred million ISK mark.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#22 - 2015-04-01 07:43:54 UTC
Benedictus de Suede wrote:
Eff. based on reported kills and losses.

Battleships Standard
90 % - Rokh
90% - Tempest
...

95% - Armageddon Navy Issue
94% - Typhoon Fleet Issue


Smart bomb ships will always have bigger nimber of kills. Yes, it is that simple.

Absolutely free head start for newcomers!. Just click the link and get extra 250 000 SP!
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#23 - 2015-04-01 10:36:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
CCP happened.

Current tech 1 battleship use is limited either to:

1) PVE carebearism in highsec;
2) dedicated neuting platforms;
3) or smartbombing in lowsecks.

Tech 2:

1) Carebearing;
2) Solo White Knight camp break up in lowsecks, but then one tech 1 logi shuts down your damage and you /uninstall.

Black Ops:

1) They want to act like battleships, but they can't.
2) Limited to heroic hotdrop combat;
3) Users /cry for reduced fatigue because -> See points 1 & 2.

Enjoy Heroic Cruiser combat Online. Big smileBig smileBig smile

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Huttan Funaila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2015-04-01 15:30:59 UTC
Benedictus de Suede wrote:

Btw the Ishtar, according to zKillboard, have the lowest efficiency (89%) and it got nerfed???

You need to consider how the ships are used.

My alliance uses huge amounts of Ishtars and Dominixes in fleet battles (such as the recent war in Fountain and Delve). Our opponents use huge numbers of ishtars and Maelstroms. For fleet battles they are well balanced (when "herding cats" is required) which is why they are used so frequently. They're fine, don't nerf them.

Ishtars are also so commonly used for ratting (nicknames for the ship include "isktar" and "afktar") that some roamers fit their ships specifically to optimally blow up ishtars. Any ship with a nickname that includes "AFK" anywhere in it is overpowered. Nerf them.
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#25 - 2015-04-01 18:14:02 UTC
Regarding "efficiency":

Overall, PvP encounters necessarily have a kill:death ratio of 1:1 just because of the law of averages.

Dips below this correspond to PvE-fit ships getting jumped, baited in high sec, etc. Thus, Ishtar, Raven, and other common L4 boats hit the bottom of the list and it has little to do with PvP effectiveness when actually PvP-fit.
dark man Skord
Doomheim
#26 - 2015-04-02 20:06:46 UTC
I will never understand how people will always complain about something being better than something else. The second there is more than one thing, one thing will be the best, even if it's marginal. It's especially confusing for me in VIDEO GAMES where players can use EVERYTHING if they so choose to. Fact of the matter is, this game has been good for a long while. Only losers complain. But I'm sure the horde of butt hurt losers with misinformation are gonna come on here and "prove" me wrong. Go ahead, I personally don't care either way.

I only came on here to share my opinion since people with bad ones are allowed to. And if I offended you, you needed it.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2015-04-03 23:28:58 UTC
If gou want to see more accurate data you should take a monthly cut of all bs's purchases in high/low sec and then compare with zkill stats of kills. Eventhough that gives you a very raw numbers cause some of those lost ships could be purchased long ago. So your delta will show you approx. usage at pve. But again some of those could be purchased for re-sell or still be docked up without usage.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Amanda Guido
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2015-04-04 03:56:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Amanda Guido
I have said it once and I will say it again, I don't care what garbage CCP comes up with, Battleships are not worth fielding. Their effectiveness per cost is terrible. They are huge, hulking, snail paced, slow locking, big fat targets, with great on-paper stats, but in reality are not able to apply half of their dps to anything that's not stationary and of equal size.

When I can buy a HAC or even faction cruiser that has similar stats and better applied dps, over a wider range of targets, that is not slow as hell, and can lock stuff in under a months time, for much less cost, why would I ever bother with a battleship? It is common sense. Battleship are obsolete in the current meta game. Only a fool says the ship balance is in an adequate state. Their statistics are fabricated, almost nobody pilots a BS outside of a capital fleet, and even then there are much better vessels for the task.

They are simply too vulnerable and expensive for their poor performance.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2015-04-04 04:04:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiddle Jr
Amanda Guido wrote:
I have said it once and I will say it again, I don't care what garbage CCP comes up with, Battleships are not worth fielding. Their effectiveness per cost is terrible. They are huge, hulking, snail paced, slow locking, big fat targets, with great on-paper stats, but in reality are not able to apply half of their dps to anything that's not stationary and of equal size.

When I can buy a HAC or even faction cruiser that has similar stats and better applied dps, over a wider range of targets, that is not slow as hell, and can lock stuff in under a months time, for much less cost, why would I ever bother with a battleship? It is common sense. Battleship are obsolete in the current meta game. Only a fool says the ship balance is in an adequate state. Their statistics are fabricated, almost nobody pilots a BS outside of a capital fleet, and even then there are much better vessels for the task.

They are simply too vulnerable and expensive for their poor performance.


I hear you bro, it's always bad to lose your afk pimped faction BS. You have my regrets on that.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#30 - 2015-04-04 08:37:15 UTC
Amanda Guido wrote:
I have said it once and I will say it again, I don't care what garbage CCP comes up with, Battleships are not worth fielding. Their effectiveness per cost is terrible. They are huge, hulking, snail paced, slow locking, big fat targets, with great on-paper stats, but in reality are not able to apply half of their dps to anything that's not stationary and of equal size.

When I can buy a HAC or even faction cruiser that has similar stats and better applied dps, over a wider range of targets, that is not slow as hell, and can lock stuff in under a months time, for much less cost, why would I ever bother with a battleship? It is common sense. Battleship are obsolete in the current meta game. Only a fool says the ship balance is in an adequate state. Their statistics are fabricated, almost nobody pilots a BS outside of a capital fleet, and even then there are much better vessels for the task.

They are simply too vulnerable and expensive for their poor performance.


I beg to differ.

The only problem with battleships is that cruiser and frigate pilots have no idea how to use them.
Amanda Guido
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2015-04-05 01:52:43 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Amanda Guido wrote:
I have said it once and I will say it again, I don't care what garbage CCP comes up with, Battleships are not worth fielding. Their effectiveness per cost is terrible. They are huge, hulking, snail paced, slow locking, big fat targets, with great on-paper stats, but in reality are not able to apply half of their dps to anything that's not stationary and of equal size.

When I can buy a HAC or even faction cruiser that has similar stats and better applied dps, over a wider range of targets, that is not slow as hell, and can lock stuff in under a months time, for much less cost, why would I ever bother with a battleship? It is common sense. Battleship are obsolete in the current meta game. Only a fool says the ship balance is in an adequate state. Their statistics are fabricated, almost nobody pilots a BS outside of a capital fleet, and even then there are much better vessels for the task.

They are simply too vulnerable and expensive for their poor performance.


I hear you bro, it's always bad to lose your afk pimped faction BS. You have my regrets on that.


I never AFK play anything, you clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about. I don't even know why I bother on these forums.

All it takes is one frigate to get in under your guns and its over. It may take a while for them to whittle you down, but your dead. Even dual webbed, you will never hit him and he will hold you there until he eventually kills you or his friends show up.

Drones on gunboat BS are pitiful and will simply be shot down before doing anything significant.

Your only hope is having a large neut, and that will only help you verse ONE frigate. If he brings a friend you are in the same crap situation.

It is simply too easy to take down a BS. I hear the fleet argument all the time. They need support.

Ya, my 5 year old brother can look like a badass with 5 high school football players at his back too. Give me a break. Gunboat BS are obsolete, with few exceptions
Amanda Guido
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2015-04-05 01:54:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Amanda Guido
baltec1 wrote:
Amanda Guido wrote:
I have said it once and I will say it again, I don't care what garbage CCP comes up with, Battleships are not worth fielding. Their effectiveness per cost is terrible. They are huge, hulking, snail paced, slow locking, big fat targets, with great on-paper stats, but in reality are not able to apply half of their dps to anything that's not stationary and of equal size.

When I can buy a HAC or even faction cruiser that has similar stats and better applied dps, over a wider range of targets, that is not slow as hell, and can lock stuff in under a months time, for much less cost, why would I ever bother with a battleship? It is common sense. Battleship are obsolete in the current meta game. Only a fool says the ship balance is in an adequate state. Their statistics are fabricated, almost nobody pilots a BS outside of a capital fleet, and even then there are much better vessels for the task.

They are simply too vulnerable and expensive for their poor performance.


I beg to differ.

The only problem with battleships is that cruiser and frigate pilots have no idea how to use them.


And your plan when even a couple frigates warp in on you and get under your guns? How do you plan to get yourself out of that one big guy?

Let me tell you, your billion dollar BS will go down in flames as a 30 million isk frigate pilot laughs and oogles at the killmail without a scratch.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2015-04-05 04:10:59 UTC
Amanda you do like to overband a stick. Looks like the only frig guy has friend and battleship pilot is a lonly idiot. My multibillion dual web Vindi will smash most of the frigs by drones only. Sorry for that.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Mega Face
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#34 - 2015-04-05 18:37:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Mega Face
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Amanda you do like to overband a stick. Looks like the only frig guy has friend and battleship pilot is a lonly idiot. My multibillion dual web Vindi will smash most of the frigs by drones only. Sorry for that.



What you aren't realizing is that there are hard counters to battleships that you can purchase for 3m ISK or less. Yes, x3 T1 frigates can, and will kill your multi-billion dollar dream boat for more reasons than your space bugatti can actually handle. Also, the most you're getting out of those webs are 15kms, boss. 19km if you're overheated or 25km if you want to make your KM loss to 5 catalysts even more spectacularly hilarious. So no, you're dead in the water - just like every other battleship to smaller hulls. Let me know the next time you go soloing with your vindi, and let me know how many of those kills were on tacklers and not the shuttles you're proposing you dual web on a daily basis.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2015-04-05 20:51:43 UTC
Mega Face wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Amanda you do like to overband a stick. Looks like the only frig guy has friend and battleship pilot is a lonly idiot. My multibillion dual web Vindi will smash most of the frigs by drones only. Sorry for that.



What you aren't realizing is that there are hard counters to battleships that you can purchase for 3m ISK or less. Yes, x3 T1 frigates can, and will kill your multi-billion dollar dream boat for more reasons than your space bugatti can actually handle. Also, the most you're getting out of those webs are 15kms, boss. 19km if you're overheated or 25km if you want to make your KM loss to 5 catalysts even more spectacularly hilarious. So no, you're dead in the water - just like every other battleship to smaller hulls. Let me know the next time you go soloing with your vindi, and let me know how many of those kills were on tacklers and not the shuttles you're proposing you dual web on a daily basis.


First of all Can you please read more attentively what others said to Amanda? Or you just another overbander?

She said a 30m frig which is under my gunz. So it's close orbiting. No look what i said back to her.

If you have lads in Catalysts and any other crappy frigs behind you i would certanly have lads backing up my vindi.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Mega Face
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#36 - 2015-04-05 21:08:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Mega Face
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Mega Face wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Amanda you do like to overband a stick. Looks like the only frig guy has friend and battleship pilot is a lonly idiot. My multibillion dual web Vindi will smash most of the frigs by drones only. Sorry for that.



What you aren't realizing is that there are hard counters to battleships that you can purchase for 3m ISK or less. Yes, x3 T1 frigates can, and will kill your multi-billion dollar dream boat for more reasons than your space bugatti can actually handle. Also, the most you're getting out of those webs are 15kms, boss. 19km if you're overheated or 25km if you want to make your KM loss to 5 catalysts even more spectacularly hilarious. So no, you're dead in the water - just like every other battleship to smaller hulls. Let me know the next time you go soloing with your vindi, and let me know how many of those kills were on tacklers and not the shuttles you're proposing you dual web on a daily basis.


First of all Can you please read more attentively what others said to Amanda? Or you just another overbander?

She said a 30m frig which is under my gunz. So it's close orbiting. No look what i said back to her.

If you have lads in Catalysts and any other crappy frigs behind you i would certanly have lads backing up my vindi.


Sounds good, bring your vindi and tacklers for support. I'll bring 5 harpys and pretty much force your vindi to watch the systematic destruction of your entire support wing as it can do nothing but throw out drones that we've already primaried the minute they were on grid. Your vindi can do nothing but sit, watch, and die..to a group of frigates. You have NO way to react, counter or increase your chance of survival because of the hull class you're in. That was the entire point of her comment.

You are completely at the whim of our patience, lulz and mercy if you ever have the balls to actually undock in a PVP vindi. The same **** happens to every other battleship outside of battleships with e-war capabilities, even then it's highly questionable you're coming out on top.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2015-04-05 21:18:18 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Mega Face wrote:
Sounds good, bring your vindi and tacklers for support. I'll bring 5 harpys and pretty much force your vindi to watch the systematic destruction of your entire support wing as it can do nothing but throw out drones that we've already primaried the minute they were on grid.

That REALLY depends on who you are fighting. The Vindicator i had earlier before i sold it (yes i went over to the Kronos for now), it would in simple terms massacre your 5 man Harpy fleet in a blink of an eye without the need of any drones.

You don't really need much to be able to do that. The Vindicator have 5 med-slots that makes room for some more EW's of some sorts that makes fighting frigs much easierBlink.

I had the Vindicator for about 3 years without losing it where i had killed around 300+ ships with it before i sold it. I know how to handle everything in that ship. Battleships are my speciality in EVE.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Mega Face
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#38 - 2015-04-05 21:26:24 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Mega Face wrote:
Sounds good, bring your vindi and tacklers for support. I'll bring 5 harpys and pretty much force your vindi to watch the systematic destruction of your entire support wing as it can do nothing but throw out drones that we've already primaried the minute they were on grid.

That REALLY depends on who you are fighting. The Vindicator i had earlier before i sold it (yes i went over to the Kronos for now), it would in simple terms massacre your 5 man Harpy fleet in a blink of an eye without the need of any drones.

You don't really need much to be able to do that. The Vindicator have 5 med-slots that makes room for some more EW's of some sorts that makes fighting frigs much easierBlink.

I had the Vindicator for 2 years and 5 months without losing it where i had killed around 300+ ships with it before i sold it. I know how to handle everything in that ship. Battleships are my speciality in EVE.



I would personally love to hear of your magical vindi that can track 4-5km/s harps, but not just track them, but pin them at the same time. So now you're suggesting that you're in a vindi that's wasting cap on an MWD, tanking, firing it's blasters and keeping any other active modules active while in the process. No, i probably wouldn't even believe you if every slot you had were filled with Tcomps and enhancers.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#39 - 2015-04-05 21:35:48 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Mega Face wrote:
I would personally love to hear of your magical vindi that can track 4-5km/s harps, but not just track them, but pin them at the same time. So now you're suggesting that you're in a vindi that's wasting cap on an MWD, tanking, firing it's blasters and keeping any other active modules active while in the process. No, i probably wouldn't even believe you if every slot you had were filled with Tcomps and enhancers.

Do you know how slow even a 8 km/s Dramiel would go if it gets double webbed by a Vindicator?

It would go so slow that even a snail would laugh it's ass of by going faster. Sure, i wouldn't hit the frigs extremely hard though, but i would hit them hard enough to hurt them pretty well.

Loading Faction Antimatter + Dual 90% web (doesn't get 2x 90% when you applies that to a ship though as it will be penalized for using more than one webber) is the key to scare every frig pilots in a Vindicator (granted you are an experienced Vindicator pilot).

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
DHB WildCat
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#40 - 2015-04-05 21:37:34 UTC  |  Edited by: DHB WildCat
Mega Face wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Mega Face wrote:
Sounds good, bring your vindi and tacklers for support. I'll bring 5 harpys and pretty much force your vindi to watch the systematic destruction of your entire support wing as it can do nothing but throw out drones that we've already primaried the minute they were on grid.

That REALLY depends on who you are fighting. The Vindicator i had earlier before i sold it (yes i went over to the Kronos for now), it would in simple terms massacre your 5 man Harpy fleet in a blink of an eye without the need of any drones.

You don't really need much to be able to do that. The Vindicator have 5 med-slots that makes room for some more EW's of some sorts that makes fighting frigs much easierBlink.

I had the Vindicator for 2 years and 5 months without losing it where i had killed around 300+ ships with it before i sold it. I know how to handle everything in that ship. Battleships are my speciality in EVE.



I would personally love to hear of your magical vindi that can track 4-5km/s harps, but not just track them, but pin them at the same time. So now you're suggesting that you're in a vindi that's wasting cap on an MWD, tanking, firing it's blasters and keeping any other active modules active while in the process. No, i probably wouldn't even believe you if every slot you had were filled with Tcomps and enhancers.



As a Battleship pilot myself, I can confirm that 5 harpies (rail fit) would own a vindi and t1 support. Vindi cannot catch them or track them. Now if they are blaster fit then thats another story. Either the harpies come into dual 90% web range and die to the vindi, or do not kill anything as hopefully the support stays with the vindi.

Nightmarex just cant imagine anything on a ship other than its short ranged weapons.