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CCP Rise newbie stats

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Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#561 - 2015-04-05 05:28:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
No, the major point of disconnect is your continual denial that the data could possibly be anything other than 'Ganking is great for the game'.

Where has Jeen said that? Or too many other people for that matter?

That's a reversal of what most of us are saying. Not that ganking is great for the game, but that ganking is not the huge negative to player retention that is often claimed, at least within the context that it was used by CCP Rise for new players.

The presentation by CCP Quant provides more data points, which are still valid irrespective of cause.
Vector Symian
0 Fear
#562 - 2015-04-05 05:36:01 UTC
As and official representative of the Free Armada and voted "guardian of the noobelahs" I feel it is my duty to respond

A rising of the education required of new pilots can only be a good thing plus one from me...

I would suggest thou that more freedom is given to them as to where they would like the new knowledge to be placed so they can more strongly focus on their intended destination.

It might be a good idea to give them a speeded up skill queue for their first month so as to give them the best support on their remaining with this game

The Free Armada

o7
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#563 - 2015-04-05 06:06:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Kaely Tanniss wrote:
The funny thing is, most don't care one bit and only use it to futher their own agenda against something THEY don't like. .


Freakin well said. Notice how many who espouse the "non-consensual pvp chases people away" line are also people who claim to speak for some mystical "silent majority" that somehow hates the same things they do...but never says anything about it and doesn't quit playing lol. As a PVE-centric player I resent that they pretend to speak for me, I can speak for myself.


I've always believed that a lot of the 'activism' (but by no means all) by the most vocal bleeding hearts types isn't an attempt to help 'new players', but rather a weak 'metagaming' attempt to rid the game of the types of people they don't like by manipulating CCP into creating a game situation that would push them away.

I say not all, because there are actually "justice warrior" types who aren't actually doing it for selfish reasons, but rather they are misguided enough to believe that one can be 'victimized' in a video game and their (the justice warrior's) sense of self is wrapped around being the 'white knight' that stands up for the 'little guy' and stands up to the 'bullies', even when there are no bullies and the little guys are telling the white knights to F off lol.

Whether Self interested liars or fatally misguided wanna-be do gooders, the result is the same: Madness.


Quote:

But again, it comes back to the question...if you don't like these things, why are you playing a game that essentially is all about the things you don't like? Roll


Because people like that are crazy. Being honest here, I DELIGHT at pointing out to these types that not only are they playing a game they don't like, but they are PAYING in some fashion to play a game they don't like. That Jenshae character that started this thread and accuses CCP Rise of an 'agenda' is paying CCP Rises salary every month LOL.

I've asked people time and again why they aren't playing games like Star Trek Online (that doesn't even allow any of the stuff that they claim to not like in EVE plus has avatar play and non-crap PVE) and it's always some lame excuse.

The same people claim whatever new game is coming will kill EVE and they will leave and never come back (which is ANOOTHER ATTEMPT at metagaming CCP into changing the game to suit them, in the same way some people tell their lover that they will leave if they don't straighten up, but never do lol). The list so far includes SWTOR, SWG, Black Prophecy and others that they threatened would kill CCP (so CCP better wake up!!) lol.

The supreme irony of it all is if CCP changed the game in a way that these 'change advocates' say they want, the most likely outcome is that they would hate it (like they do STO, because in STO their are no victims to champion for) and would leave. Ultimately, these people are just reverse-gankers, they exist in EVE rather than in other games because this is where the 'victims' are.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#564 - 2015-04-05 07:53:42 UTC
Dots wrote:
Facts.


I find myself troubled that this only covers a 3-month period, more specifically, that it doesn't tell us if everyone who gets their ship blown up (for whatever means) quits during month 4. TBH, I think CCP should just go ahead and give us stats going all the way back to 2003. That way, if they're telling the same story it'll be obvious that the fault is with what information is being collected. Roll

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#565 - 2015-04-05 09:23:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kaely Tanniss wrote:
The funny thing is, most don't care one bit and only use it to futher their own agenda against something THEY don't like. .


Freakin well said. Notice how many who espouse the "non-consensual pvp chases people away" line are also people who claim to speak for some mystical "silent majority" that somehow hates the same things they do...but never says anything about it and doesn't quit playing lol. As a PVE-centric player I resent that they pretend to speak for me, I can speak for myself.


I've always believed that a lot of the 'activism' (but by no means all) by the most vocal bleeding hearts types isn't an attempt to help 'new players', but rather a weak 'metagaming' attempt to rid the game of the types of people they don't like by manipulating CCP into creating a game situation that would push them away.

I say not all, because there are actually "justice warrior" types who aren't actually doing it for selfish reasons, but rather they are misguided enough to believe that one can be 'victimized' in a video game and their (the justice warrior's) sense of self is wrapped around being the 'white knight' that stands up for the 'little guy' and stands up to the 'bullies', even when there are no bullies and the little guys are telling the white knights to F off lol.

Whether Self interested liars or fatally misguided wanna-be do gooders, the result is the same: Madness.


Quote:

But again, it comes back to the question...if you don't like these things, why are you playing a game that essentially is all about the things you don't like? Roll


Because people like that are crazy. Being honest here, I DELIGHT at pointing out to these types that not only are they playing a game they don't like, but they are PAYING in some fashion to play a game they don't like. That Jenshae character that started this thread and accuses CCP Rise of an 'agenda' is paying CCP Rises salary every month LOL.

I've asked people time and again why they aren't playing games like Star Trek Online (that doesn't even allow any of the stuff that they claim to not like in EVE plus has avatar play and non-crap PVE) and it's always some lame excuse.

The same people claim whatever new game is coming will kill EVE and they will leave and never come back (which is ANOOTHER ATTEMPT at metagaming CCP into changing the game to suit them, in the same way some people tell their lover that they will leave if they don't straighten up, but never do lol). The list so far includes SWTOR, SWG, Black Prophecy and others that they threatened would kill CCP (so CCP better wake up!!) lol.

The supreme irony of it all is if CCP changed the game in a way that these 'change advocates' say they want, the most likely outcome is that they would hate it (like they do STO, because in STO their are no victims to champion for) and would leave. Ultimately, these people are just reverse-gankers, they exist in EVE rather than in other games because this is where the 'victims' are.


What an epic troll post that was!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Jenshae Chiroptera
#566 - 2015-04-05 11:24:01 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kaely Tanniss wrote:
The funny thing is, most don't care one bit and only use it to futher their own agenda against something THEY don't like. .
Freakin well said.
(Crazy melodrama)
(Still more crazy melodrama): ... these types that not only are they playing a game they don't like, but they are PAYING in some fashion to play a game they don't like. That Jenshae character that started this thread and accuses CCP Rise of an 'agenda' is paying CCP Rises salary every month ....(even more crazy melodrama).
How does your brain go from, "I think this study is not indepth enough," to, "paying ... to play a game they don't like"? Roll

Quote:
Me, "I don't think enough apple saplings have been planted."
One group, "Yes! Clearly red apples are the best."
Another group, "LISTEN! LISTEN! I have been telling you all for years that green apples are the best. Now it is obvious! LOL"
What?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#567 - 2015-04-05 11:39:52 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

That is just the tip of the iceberg from the top of my head.


Your desperation to disqualify the data is ever more apparent.

Therein lies the problem. No matter how much data we are given on this subject, there will still be more questions. It creates this neverending loop where no amount of data will be sufficient.

But then, we already knew that to begin with. It's nice to see it shown front and center though.


Jenshae Chiroptera's required level of evidence






It seems familiar somehow...

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#568 - 2015-04-05 11:45:41 UTC
lol this thread is still going.
Stop talking to the monkeys already.

The ability to speak does not make intelligent.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Jenshae Chiroptera
#569 - 2015-04-05 11:48:14 UTC
Eve Solecist wrote:
lol this thread is still going.
Stop talking to the monkeys already.

The ability to speak does not make intelligent.
It is only peanuts. If it keeps them distracted from other threads then I am performing a service. P

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#570 - 2015-04-05 12:06:52 UTC
i have no idea who solstice is referring to
Jenshae Chiroptera
#571 - 2015-04-05 12:33:55 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
i have no idea who solstice is referring to
Exactly! However, it doesn't matter, I got to twist their post first. Nanananananananabananamanananana! P

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#572 - 2015-04-05 12:55:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Vector Symian wrote:
It might be a good idea to give them a speeded up skill queue for their first month so as to give them the best support on their remaining with this game
That actually used to happen, new characters got accelerated skill training up to a certain SP point. CCP changed that when they removed learning skills and rebalanced the character attributes to compensate IIRC.

Newbies can now train skills faster than at any time in the past, removing allecerated training and 3 months of learning skills, that were required to increase your character attributes and thus pretty much mandatory, along with rebalancing character attributes is how CCP achieved that.

Your suggestion reverses a previous decision made in the interests of balance. If it was to be implemented it wouldn't pass muster with the player base unless it came with some kind of penalty; say something like skills that are, for all intents and purposes, mandatory and time consuming. TBH honest nobody wants to see newbies have to suffer as they did with learning skills, the removal of those and the rebalance of character stats was the best thing that ever happened to Eve, let sleeping dogs lie.

Malcanis's Law wrote:
"Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of 'new players', that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players."
The above applies here, if new characters got accelerated learning up to a set time or SP limit without penalty, older players would abuse the crap out of it and use their knowledge to create very effective specialist alts fast.

CCP know this, which is why they have to balance that fact against any buffs for any group of players at all, including newbies.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#573 - 2015-04-05 13:39:26 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Vector Symian wrote:
It might be a good idea to give them a speeded up skill queue for their first month so as to give them the best support on their remaining with this game
That actually used to happen, new characters got accelerated skill training up to a certain SP point. CCP changed that when they removed learning skills and rebalanced the character attributes to compensate IIRC.

Newbies can now train skills faster than at any time in the past, removing allecerated training and 3 months of learning skills, that were required to increase your character attributes and thus pretty much mandatory, along with rebalancing character attributes is how CCP achieved that.

Your suggestion reverses a previous decision made in the interests of balance. If it was to be implemented it wouldn't pass muster with the player base unless it came with some kind of penalty; say something like skills that are, for all intents and purposes, mandatory and time consuming.

Malcanis's Law wrote:
"Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of 'new players', that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players."
The above applies here, if new characters got accelerated learning up to a set time or SP limit without penalty, older players would abuse the crap out of it and use their knowledge to create very effective specialist alts fast.


Anyone who quotes Malcanis law should be ignored as a complete idiot, especially those that have no kills on the character they post or the corp they are in, who am I looking at....

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#574 - 2015-04-05 13:47:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Dracvlad wrote:
Anyone who quotes Malcanis law should be ignored as a complete idiot
Yet his premise has remained true, with very few exceptions, and was relevant to the contents of the post I quoted.

If you'd actually bothered to read and understand my post you'd have seen that it was a direct reply to a specific subject.
I pointed out that what Vector suggested used to be the case and I then provided an example of how what he proposed would be abused by older and more experienced players.

And I did it without frothing at the mouth.

Quote:
especially those that have no kills on the character they post or the corp they are in, who am I looking at....
What of it? I've never professed to play Eve for the ship to ship PvP.

My PvP activities involve other areas of the game, where they do cross over into the realms of killboards and the like I take steps to not have those activities forced upon me, like not being stupid or afk.

You must be getting desperate if you've resorted to judging the merits of others on the killboards because they disagree with you.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#575 - 2015-04-05 14:06:18 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Anyone who quotes Malcanis law should be ignored as a complete idiot
Yet his premise has remained true, with very few exceptions.

Quote:
especially those that have no kills on the character they post or the corp they are in, who am I looking at....
What of it? I've never professed to play Eve for the ship to ship PvP.

My PvP activities involve other areas of the game, where they do cross over into the realms of killboards and the like I take steps to not have those activities forced upon me, like not being stupid or afk.

You must be getting desperate if you've resorted to judging the merits of others on the killboards because they disagree with you.


List them, can you honestly say that the jump fatigue introduction really had that affect?

I can't see your activties to be able to judge teh value of your words, just that C&P know you, big deal.

You look at people who make statements to assess if they have had the experience that they talk about, all we see from you is lots of likes but that can be done by people who just agree with anything that a person posts or numerous accounts self liking himself like Kaauros. You could be a raving carebear for all I know, at this point the value of your posts to me are absolute zero, because you post with his alt who has done nothing in game, simple as.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#576 - 2015-04-05 14:12:59 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

Anyone who quotes Malcanis law should be ignored as a complete idiot, especially those that have no kills on the character they post or the corp they are in, who am I looking at....

Erm, are you serious?
You can't be.
You're ******* with us, right?
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#577 - 2015-04-05 14:19:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

Anyone who quotes Malcanis law should be ignored as a complete idiot, especially those that have no kills on the character they post or the corp they are in, who am I looking at....

Erm, are you serious?
You can't be.
You're ******* with us, right?


Jump drive fatigue breaks that stupid law and its in your face mate...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#578 - 2015-04-05 14:23:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Dracvlad wrote:
List them, can you honestly say that the jump fatigue introduction really had that affect?
Was that aimed at newbies?

Quote:
I can't see your activties to be able to judge teh value of your words, just that C&P know you, big deal.

You look at people who make statements to assess if they have had the experience that they talk about, all we see from you is lots of likes but that can be done by people who just agree with anything that a person posts
Oh man you are getting all kinds of desperate; first killboards and now my like count, what's next?

The fact that I don't PvP in the traditional sense doesn't mean that I am unfamiliar with it nor relevant. To minimise losses I make it my business to know how it works, I have a few kills, I have a few losses, but not on this character, or any other character I currently own.

Using your brain to avoid unnecessary explosions is as much PvP as being the cause of explosions.

Quote:
or numerous accounts self liking himself like Kaauros.
You should stop, you're making yourself look silly.

Quote:
You could be a raving carebear for all I know, at this point the value of your posts to me are absolute zero, because you post with his alt who has done nothing in game, simple as.
I'm a bear yes, carebear? Nope.

Any perceived value in my posts is subjective and entirely down to the reader, personally I couldn't give a monkeys what you think of my posting.

I have alts, as do most, but this is my main. Before criticising the fact that I have done nothing of worth in game you should look at yourself and ask

What have I done in game?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#579 - 2015-04-05 14:24:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Gallowmere Rorschach
Dracvlad wrote:
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

Anyone who quotes Malcanis law should be ignored as a complete idiot, especially those that have no kills on the character they post or the corp they are in, who am I looking at....

Erm, are you serious?
You can't be.
You're ******* with us, right?


Jump drive fatigue breaks that stupid law and its in your face mate...

Interestingly enough, jump fatigue is what has allowed a certain sig in the CFC to be so successful.
It also wasn't put in with the intent of helping new players along.

So, what was that again?
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#580 - 2015-04-05 14:25:55 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

Anyone who quotes Malcanis law should be ignored as a complete idiot, especially those that have no kills on the character they post or the corp they are in, who am I looking at....

Erm, are you serious?
You can't be.
You're ******* with us, right?


Jump drive fatigue breaks that stupid law and its in your face mate...

Interestingly enough, jump fatigue is what has allowed a certain sig in the CFC to be so successful.
It also wasn't put in with the intent of helping new players along.

So, what was that again?


You need to read that law again mate...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp