Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This thread should really have received some more thought before its creation.

If POS's are going to be the L size in the new structure systems, then as stated above, we are really only talking about asset destruction for XL structures as the current, no-safety mechanic for POS's and other structures should continue.

Trade Hub's & Staging

Regions in null generally have one maybe two significant trade hubs. These trade hubs are the staging system for the major alliance in the region and contains all the ships, assets, manufacturing and market sell and buy orders.

Here is a link to the list of market hubs by value across New Eden.
http://eve-marketdata.com/station.php?step=Rank

If a station is destructible with all its assets, the risk/reward ratio is completely out of balance. The above link only shows the market orders. The assets in the base which includes ships, modules, minerals, manufacturing materials and blueprint originals are not seen.

This value per player is easily in the tens of billions which when multiplied by the 1,000 to 4,000 man alliances this quickly adds up to trillions of isk worth of assets which are all vulnerable to destruction and looting.

Example

The recent attack by PL against Brave would have resulted in GE- and HED being destroyed and all the assets with them.

This would have been just from market orders a total value of $293 billion for GE- and $144 billion for HED. (This is current data and therefore the numbers are post the loss of GE-).

The individual members of this new bro alliance will each have in excess of $1 billion in ships and items therefore this represents trillions of isk at risk.

It would completely destroy an alliance's individual members who own all those assets. Remember it is not owned by an alliance, so when members items are locked in a station they aren't reimbursed by an alliance.

Current Tactics

The current strategy generally involves stripping an enemy of their income which comes from their moons, taxes on ratting, refining etc. You whittle an alliances income sources down, and defeat them on the field costing them billions in ships which eventually enables you to defeat them as they are unable to continue replacing ships.

If you take their main station, there is no isk reward for the attacking alliance. The losing alliance generally have jump clones setup and can still get into the station to sell the items over time etc. If their alliance takes the station back (which could be months later) they get all their items back. This provides an incentive for the losing alliance to return to take the station.

New Tactic

If a station and the assets inside are destructible, you could head shot an alliance and destroy all their assets in one blow, which for most would be unrecoverable.

If items drop, you have increased the reward for groups to attack only the staging station for an alliance and nothing else, removing this one structure destroys the alliance and you can then easily conquer the rest of the space.

You would create groups who would head shot alliance staging systems to loot and then move on, they don’t want the space they are just raiding trillions of isk and then moving to the next staging system. They are staged in highsec or NPC stations and have their assets completely protected.

Away from the game

As many people have stated, if you are AFK for any period of time, your risk increases exponentially but your reward does not exist.

If someone returns and all their assets are gone, they will generally not continue. For people who reference wormholers and POS assets. Lets be serious, your main assets are in NPC or HS stations, so you are never risking your primary assets and isk generation is so good in WH you can quickly replace any loss in a POS. POS’s are L size structures and should continue to have items inside have a chance to drop.

Option 1 Review

Having the structure turn into a wreck and the modules fitted to the structure drop as loot, is a nice idea and provides a reward to the attacking group.

Having the items in the structure owned by individuals and corps dropping and requiring them to go back and salvage their items doesn’t work.

Firstly, they lost the station which means they don’t control the grid, system or the constellation. The items inside the structure are billions of m3 and are unable to retrieved. The attacking group would perma camp the wreck and gates and continue to kill all who come to retrieve their items.

I might suggest a variation on the third option - to move by preference user's assets to their home station. Creating a contract at some small percentage of the value based on distance moved would be feasible to prevent exploitation.

I find option 1 potentially quite limiting with respect to ship hulls, and that option 2 suffers from similar issues. However, as I've never evacuated an outpost I cannot comment on how feasible these would be in practice.

This will be a terribly disruptive force, but I love it.

Indestructible outposts never made real sense from a gameplay point of view.

In line with some of the suggestions made earlier, I would suggest having a special 'chest' in our hanger where we can move 100k or 1m m3 of stuff (not ships, unless packaged..) that gets teleported to a highsec NPC station of choice. Perhaps the one with the corporate office.

The rest is destroyed, and up for loot. Though given the amount of stuff that people store in a station.. you may want to find a better way than just putting it in wrecks in space.

The idea of loot spew in space is just bad.

Edit: As for moored ships, for folks worried about losing them while on extended afk, just board them, warp to SS and safe logoff =P

Ok to summarize:

Different people want loot, danger and safety for their assets,

This is pretty much mutually exclusive as someone said earlier.

As I understand it right now, anyone could just come to said structure, win two structure cap fights and then destroy the structre? That's way too easy for the amount of assets we're talking about.

I see two ways to deal with destructible stations:

---

Make them completely destructible, kill anything inside.

People are notified 3 months in advance of this change, people who are not subscribed or logged in during that time get their stuff moved to a highsec station. Basically enough time and the choice whether to participate in the new system or not risk it.

After that time, all hands are off, no safety is given.

The big big disadvantage of that would be that you could not build anything reliable in nullsec anymore. It would kill markets, industry and in the long run residency of dangerous areas.

This doesn't have to be bad mind you, I would be perfectly fine with a nullsec zone where only small investments are feasible, where only corps using ventures and stuff up to cruisers can run proftiable operations.

It would probably be very bad for large alliance and coalition warfare though.

It's a choice, if you at CCP want to reduce the size of ships and assets in nullsec, this would be way to do it, discouraging large investments.

This would be fair because you knew what you were getting into and you lost. Tough luck, such is eve. You would have had the choice and you chose wrong.

---

Make them free to loot after destruction but give owners to option to spend time and pilot effort to increase the defenses.

Things like secondary structures that have to be captured first, shield generators, docking control systems, invulnerabillity if you own 50% or more of all structures in your constellation, that kind of stuff. Basically making defense of XL structures in lived in space really really easy.

It's ok that people can take all that stuff if it takes literally weeks or months and lots of effort to do so.

This would be fair because if you could not defend your assets long enough to move them out, you're basically incompetent and deserve to lose it. Unsubscribed people's assets would be locked down until they resub and log in, then option #1 applies.

Option #2 seems weird and fiddely to me

Option #3 is really easily exploited to move assets as someone pointed out.

I think its way too soon before Fozziesov to change how assets are stored. Changing this mechanic is NOT going to increase 'content'. I'd much rather keep the current system. Having your assets locked in a station you no longer own is more than enough to encourage getting a station back. Ask yourself, did Solar finally get their stuff back from RPO or whatever system that was? Those are now assets that can be used again, to create content.

Also lets not forget that this mechanic will be exploited for the sole purpose of grrreifing.

If a station is destructible and contents inside. remove fatigue from Jump Freighters and increase the hold size by x100 so I can fit everything I own in it.

Everyone keeps talking about how good it is going to be looting structures. But no one will invest in null sec and its costs billions in upgrades etc already if you have little protection from being raided and you cannot perform an evac because of the jump fatigue, limit on jump freighter holds, capital ship jump reduction etc, makes the process impossible.

Yep, within the next 3-5 releases they are going to be re-sculpting everything that is 0.0. This is going to be one of the biggest events in Eve's history.

Upcoming Changes:
Null belts/ore content (has put the markets in limbo)
Null mineral increase in BPOs
Structures, which primarily affect Null (specifically, ship safety will be re-defined no matter how hard they try to keep it the same)
Sovereignty mechanics

This is too much at once. There will be too much noise between these factors to the point that CCP is will be unable to pinpoint the right things to tweak among all the changes that were made in null's interconnected system.

Let us also consider that Eve is about shooting spaceships and blowing up spaceships. Destructible stations that risk stored assets, station market stores or contracts, are going to have at least two CATASTROPHIC effects to this:

1. People will keep as few ships as possible in stations (resulting in much less pew pew)

2. People will keep far less things on market or contracts (resulting in even less pew pew as less replacements are available)

Why are you assuming the assets are going to be destroyed?

I'm not seeing where personal belongings are being looted either, unless you're referring to another players suggestions