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EVE and the Red Queen's Race

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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#41 - 2015-04-04 08:42:56 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Big Lynx wrote:
tl:dr


Precisely.

The concluding paragraph was a bunch of questions, so I guess the OP had nothing useful to say, just a lot of questions.


or confused?

Just Add Water
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#42 - 2015-04-04 09:58:18 UTC
Eve Solecist wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Thus, a new form of PvE should be driven by players and have an impact on players.

That's called PvP.

Because when one player does something ...
... and it affects another player even indirectly ...
... it's Player vs Player.


Maybe you want to rephrase what you want?


I already said it. I want PvE to become PvP by other means than pew pew. To do that, it must be driven by players and must influence players, so not engaging into PvE becomes as hazardous as dismissing pew pew.

For further details on how would it be if everyone could force their playstyle onto everyone, read here:

http://jestertrek.blogspot.com.es/2014/05/recycling-day-peace-dec.html

They're talking, jokingly, about reversing wardecs into "peace decs" to prevent pew pewers form pew pewing, much as wardecs prevent PvErs to PvE. I just take that idea to a higher level, about PvErs forcing pew pewers to PvE much as now pew pewers can force pew pew unto PvErs.

You *can* ignore pew pew, but it will have consequences sooner or later (carebear tears!). It is just fair and balanced that dismissing PvE would have consequences sooner or later (pew pewer tears!).

Quote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


I'm still tinkering with the white skirt. Unfortunately we don't have white heels, but have red heels, yet then we don't have red jackets. So the only red-white-red scheme is using that tank top, with its weird green borders. I'm not a big fan of it.

By the way, Ish has worn uniforms in the past. See here, here and here.

Unfortunately, "militia" uniforms are OOC for her. She's never been a military, and probably the closest thing to a uniform she could wear accordingly to her biography, would be something like this...


We have red blouses... or what it's called ?
https://gate.eveonline.com/profile/Christina%20Project

Also, white suits you better.


That's the red satin blouse, it doesn't matches with anything else. What?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2015-04-04 10:18:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
The game already forces most players to do some kind of PvE to get ISK. There is no need to expand this any further. I'm open to other means of general purpose PvP competition than pew pew, but you need to be careful to not undercut the very nature of EvE. Peace decs are bs, they do not create but reduce multiplayer content.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#44 - 2015-04-04 10:27:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Tipa Riot wrote:
The game already forces most players to do some kind of PvE to get ISK. There is no need to expand this any further. I'm open to other means of general purpose PvP competition than pew pew, but you need to be careful to not undercut the very nature of EvE. Peace decs are bs, they do not create but reduce multiplayer content.


LOLWHAT? Peace decs are the exact opposite of wardecs. And oh yes they reduce multiplayer... by forcing players out of their corps. Exactly as wardecs do.

So why you call them bs? You can come and wardec me to force me to..

... not play
... leave my corp
... play your way (and lose horribly at it)

Peace dec would force you to...

... not play
... leave your corp
... play my way (and suffer eye cancer or whatever)

Why the former are "fine" but the later are "bs"?


PS: that was exactly the reflection being made by Mike and Ripard. Why certain players can force their playstyle unto others, but the later are not given means to force their playstyle unto others? It's the way EVE is, but, couldn't it be different?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#45 - 2015-04-04 10:28:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
Tipa Riot wrote:
The game already forces most players to do some kind of PvE to get ISK. There is no need to expand this any further. I'm open to other means of general purpose PvP competition than pew pew, but you need to be careful to not undercut the very nature of EvE. Peace decs are bs, they do not create but reduce multiplayer content.

No, it doesn't. You are mistaking ones inability to find alternatives
with the game forcing you to do anything.

Generally speaking of course some people have to do PvE,
because it's a part of the economy,
but that does in no way or form mean anyone is forced to do it.

The outcome would be interesting.


If this thread degrades to the usual hate,
by the usual blind, unreasonable and hatefull people who hate the player
and not the character ...

... then this will hopefully, rightfully get a lock.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#46 - 2015-04-04 10:56:01 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
TL;DR: EVE is changing fast.
When I worked with the Japanese at Nissan and I said the word, "change" their body language shut down and they weren't interested in what I had to say but I soon learned that if I put forward something to "improve" things then they were all ears.


I'm all open to improve things. I've easily adopted MTUs, MJDs, and all the toys CCP has thrown our way.

That doesn't changes that just yesterday I rescued the Damsel for the I-hope-I-never-know-itnth time. I don't want that mission to go (it's a classic!) but I wonder why there are no better and more "EVE" ways to use 78 million SP without shooting somebody's face.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Kiandoshia
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2015-04-04 11:50:54 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Kiandoshia wrote:
Aphsala wrote:
eve is dying?


Essentially

What else would you expect from Ishtanchuk Fazmarai?


I don't know. I don't forum that much =p
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2015-04-04 13:53:43 UTC
I didn't say I like wardecs Blink, in their current form they are mainly used to farm tears in highsec.

But I think we are far off topic now ...

I'm my own NPC alt.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#49 - 2015-04-04 15:42:55 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
TL;DR: EVE is changing fast.
When I worked with the Japanese at Nissan and I said the word, "change" their body language shut down and they weren't interested in what I had to say but I soon learned that if I put forward something to "improve" things then they were all ears.


I'm all open to improve things. I've easily adopted MTUs, MJDs, and all the toys CCP has thrown our way.

That doesn't changes that just yesterday I rescued the Damsel for the I-hope-I-never-know-itnth time. I don't want that mission to go (it's a classic!) but I wonder why there are no better and more "EVE" ways to use 78 million SP without shooting somebody's face.

So...

is eve actually improving, or not. I see, an interesting use of irony in a thread about eve dying

very subtle, I definitely approve of your foruming skills.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2015-04-04 16:04:21 UTC
I don't think CCP is making changes to the game willy nilly without a plan or a clue in the world as to what they are heading towards. So yes the rapid updates can keep coming out because they have a plan they are working towards. MMO devs always have a plan they work towards in some fashion so the red queen nonsense doesn't apply.

And who the heck doesn't want patches more often? If you like being starved for content so much go play WoW.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#51 - 2015-04-04 16:38:39 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
MMO devs always have a plan they work towards in some fashion so the red queen nonsense doesn't apply.

How do those plans work out for mmos in general...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Black Panpher
CastleKickers
Rote Kapelle
#52 - 2015-04-04 16:45:03 UTC
Ban **** posters.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#53 - 2015-04-04 16:56:29 UTC
Black Panpher wrote:
Ban **** posters.

No we need to ***** post faster and faster to just stay where we are.

TO make it harder, we also get fatigued

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#54 - 2015-04-04 17:11:28 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
TL;DR: EVE is changing fast.
When I worked with the Japanese at Nissan and I said the word, "change" their body language shut down and they weren't interested in what I had to say but I soon learned that if I put forward something to "improve" things then they were all ears.


I think that says less about the Japanese and more about how you just have terrible ideas.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Dots
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#55 - 2015-04-04 17:24:54 UTC

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
That doesn't changes that just yesterday I rescued the Damsel for the I-hope-I-never-know-itnth time. I don't want that mission to go (it's a classic!) but I wonder why there are no better and more "EVE" ways to use 78 million SP without shooting somebody's face.


All the solo aspects of EVE are a financial life support system for pilots to shoot other pilots in the face. If you want to play a single player game then you should find a single player space Sci Fi game that will continue to be interesting for you for 12 years straight.

Otherwise, have the good graces to admit that EVE is too interesting for you to quit.

everything is better with ᵈᵒᵗˢ on it

New Player Opportunities: a gallery
Black Panpher
CastleKickers
Rote Kapelle
#56 - 2015-04-04 17:28:04 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Black Panpher wrote:
Ban **** posters.

No we need to ***** post faster and faster to just stay where we are.

TO make it harder, we also get fatigued


Such stealth, much wow!
Jade Blackwind
#57 - 2015-04-04 17:52:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Blackwind
Dots wrote:

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
That doesn't changes that just yesterday I rescued the Damsel for the I-hope-I-never-know-itnth time. I don't want that mission to go (it's a classic!) but I wonder why there are no better and more "EVE" ways to use 78 million SP without shooting somebody's face.


All the solo aspects of EVE are a financial life support system for pilots to shoot other pilots in the face. If you want to play a single player game then you should find a single player space Sci Fi game that will continue to be interesting for you for 12 years straight.

Otherwise, have the good graces to admit that EVE is too interesting for you to quit.

ITT: Dots sums up the current state of EVE (and, most likely, the current dev vision, because Seagull) in a nutshell.
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#58 - 2015-04-04 18:42:32 UTC
Black Panpher wrote:
Ban **** posters.

So...ban everyone?

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
Tristan Valentina
Moira.
#59 - 2015-04-04 19:11:51 UTC
An interesting read, only time will tell. Personally I really hope they stick to a schedule without little changes in between, that method feels very F2P shooter and really opens then up to the nerf train. "This ship is to powerful, fix it! then a week later it is nerfed instead of actually fixed causing more nerfs to happen.". Very Reactionary and that is never a good policy.

Tristan
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#60 - 2015-04-04 19:17:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Dots wrote:

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
That doesn't changes that just yesterday I rescued the Damsel for the I-hope-I-never-know-itnth time. I don't want that mission to go (it's a classic!) but I wonder why there are no better and more "EVE" ways to use 78 million SP without shooting somebody's face.


All the solo aspects of EVE are a financial life support system for pilots to shoot other pilots in the face. If you want to play a single player game then you should find a single player space Sci Fi game that will continue to be interesting for you for 12 years straight.

Otherwise, have the good graces to admit that EVE is too interesting for you to quit.



Well, the current break up of population tells another story. As 62% of the players (not accounts, not characters, but individuals) rarely shoot anyone in the face.

12% of them don't even play the game, they just chat and skill up.
25% of them just level up their Ravens, to say so, playing EVE as a traditional MMO.
25% of them engage into industry, exploration, et cetera, but rarely move into nullsec, generally avoid low, and whenever they pew pew it's mostly as logis.

So no.The known details of the Rubicon plan to add more pew pew to the game are not exactly going to work for 62% of the customers, who would rather socialize, build stuff or shoot NPCs instead of shooting people in the face.

There may be more than meets the eye, so maybe beyond the player built stargates to more nosec space to conquer and hold there's something for that large majority who are not giving money to CCP for the pew pew.

Or maybe Rubicon is just about what we know, and CCP's only way to please that 62% of people who will not cross the gates, will not colonize "new" space and will not even fly their colors with their friends, is going to engage into a Red Queen's race with changes for the sake of changes... until everyone is too tired to keep running and the game drops to its natural size, some 150,000 subscribers.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you