Wormholes

So here's how I use it.

You're on grid - I watch list you. We play wh space games for a short period of time (measured in a few hours). If you log off or if my connection to you goes away - I have no further interest in you. Every few days I delete you from my watchlist as the endless flasing of the log in / log out icons nauseates me.

You're a long time space pal - I watch list you and put you in a folder. I deal w/ your icons flashing in the corner as you lod in and out because I like you. Occaisionally I'll convo you or what not as is appropriate for long time space pals.

You're a contact of interest - I watch list you. I actively see you log in and out and try to group you w/ other folks, maybe nail down some log in habits. Maybe nail down that you don't log in and only play forums. All the kind of stuff guys hate about free no risk intel - yeah I do some of that too.

I would prefer to keep the first two and could live w/out the third one, but you can't seperate the first from the third. You just can't. Keep it.

You'll have to just trust me that I don't sit behind pos shields all day and that I actually play the game. Take last night, I sat in an anom for almost an hour in a drake until the wh inhabitants showed up to gank me. Had I not non-consentually wl the legion pilot I would not have known he was watching me. We probably would have rolled away from him and missed an opportunity to flip their gank attempt on them.

I'm not risk averse AND I want to keep the wl for pvp reasons. Don't try to arbitrarily paint me otherwise.

So not to go into a lot of detail, but...

Lost was the C2 'afk' drake baiting in an anom (It was an armor wh and they had prot, legion, vexor and thorax - so I'd say at risk)
Character B (feel free to use the WL mechanics to determine it's name) was in Immensea trying to pick a fight w/ a vaga. (we'll call this at risk even knowing the HAC was totally in fear of my orthrus and would not leave the station dock ring)
Character C (again, feel free) is a noob scout alt w/ zero combat skills cloaked on a c5 of interest to see if any traffic was incoming that way. (you got me - cloaked noob scout alt being risk averse... in a wh... who would have imagined)

I don't prove your point - I prove mine. Knowing the target was still online I was able to leave some tasty bait and pull him into a bad situation. It wasn't risk averse - it was using the available tools to multi task and increase my chances of some pew. And to be fair - they went for the drake bait looking to pvp - I didn't use the sinister watch list to surpise sex them... well ok, maybe I kind of did, but they warped to me first, not the other way around.

Edit: also, the legion was cloaked watching me, so watching him would be kind of difficult. All I knew was that he was still online, so I kept the faith and the drake in the anom. You are grasping at straws.

The MASSIVE changes to structure/pos in or out of WH space highlights the need to address these watch list issues.

The impact on station flipping could be huge especially for small corps & alliances. An AFK alt waiting for that 'just right' moment when your watchlist tells you that, during a vulnerability timezone, Trinkets corp have all logged off early to watch the footy highlights.

I vote we call the tactic a "RIFF" Risk Isk Free Flip

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I'd like for watchlist only to function based on the system I am in. WL player in my system logs in, I get notified. He logs out in same system, I get notified. He leaves system and logs out in another system, my watchlist displays that he is still online.

Basically, unless the log in and/or log out happens in the same solar system as you, you have no idea if they are online. That being said, I also want local to be removed from all types of space.

keep it and it's cool?

get rid of it and it's cooler for supers?

Let's use some logic:

AFK cloak was basically the counter to watch listing, in old eve. And local was counter to cloaks, or so they say in the relevant threads.

AFK Cloaks are going to get a possible counter, local is possibly being altered. If those changes go trough there is no reason why watch listing shouldn't change. EvE will become less predictable and that means more random fun.

I know this was brought up in relevance to WH but original watchlist was implemented when WH were not even imagined. This alone should be a good enough reason to remove it now, since it does alter gameplay in space were the unknown is the most important feature.

ps: I would much rather see outside third party free Intel tools disappear before WL

I think it's the dumbest issue tbh. Only worrisome for v small WH corps or bears, otherwise why does it matter if people know when you're logging in?

vov people complain too much about it

How about we just start to question everything in eve that works?

What do you guys think about wormholes having different colours? Maybe sleepers shouldn't be named sleepers cause they are awake? Why not just get rid of wormholes all together?

This op is seriously just trying to raise an issue without it being an issue, perhaps start participating in real wormhole life before trying to change it.

I really don't think that *Its been like that forever* is a valid reason.

Instead, I question a me hanic without a counter. example: lowsec supers without HICs existing would be a bad idea. Like supers do things and you can't hold them. In a sense, watchlists are the same. Someone can wreck your playstyle simply by logging off when you log in, and continue farming once you logged out. If you think info should be that easily given to you, then I propose wormhole local to just make it right.

Requiring visuals, wits and good scouting/scanning should be what tells you if a person is active or not. Monitoring their online status is **** easy, immersion breaking and overall an outdated mechanic.

If you want to watchlist friends, please do and await their confirmation. Unlikely your prey will agree, but luckily right now they won't even be asked. I can't complain since I feel to sit on the side with benefits from the status quo, but facepalm over the underlying stupidity of that mechanic.

Say no to free intel
Say no to mechanics that can't be countered or evaded
Say no to wormholes with a curate automated intel
Say no to the easy mode