Wormholes

Well you see the thing is, I don't have to name anything or prove anything.

You are the one who wants to change what is already a part of the game I'm fine with, so that falls on your shoulders and by your logic we should nerf forums, character sheets, employment history, corp and pretty much everything unless you're on grid with a pilot. How far do we take this "free intel" silliness?

It functions fine for both social and tactical use and it's balanced. The intel gained by it is negligible because it can work both ways. It's just one of the aspects of the world here that we live with. At the end of the day it's still a game that needs to provide some conveniences for it's players.

Essentially all of this from page 1 lol:

*shrugs* There's really nothing more to say.

I don't think that watchlist abuse really creates so much intel as to be a major swing factor either way. That said, I think it would be really interesting if watch list behaviors mimicked ratting API's/local in this way:

1. If you login to a system with local, you show on watchlists.
2. If you login to a wormhole system (or Thera) with no local, then watchlist doesn't automatically pop up.
3. This would be exempted for people that are on your personal watchlist as friendly, who would still always see you. Perhaps also members of your corp/alliance, or at least the director-level members.
4. Once you jump into k-space you show up on watchlists of anyone maybe?
5. Perhaps going back to a WH would take you back off?

This would be a good fix for the current meta. No reason that WH space should give anyone free intel. Also worth noting if nobody has yet that this would somewhat benefit smaller corps as they are the easiest to watchlist the whole group, and have fewer alts.

Just the fact that you compared a spaceship game to rl tells me a lot of intel about you.

Watchlist only does half the play. Tells you if they are on or off, not if they are in the same wormhole as you. ;)

OK, here's my take on this.

When your clowns came into my hole, and set up EVE's Second Least Impressive Wormhole Camp (you outdid yourselves this week, btw) I parked an alt on the wormhole entrance and added every idiot who jumped through.

I went to zkillboard and researched each idiot to determine which other clown-arse moron he flew with. Soon i had scried out who was in my hole, which one had a bomber and who had a Falcon, who had a 800M Wingspan "doctrine" Stratios spendo-punching bag.

I had a good idea who was in my hole, and since they were on watchlists, and i had researched their behaviour on zkillboard, I came to a conclusion.

#1 - You are all US TZ and you were "hell camping" an AU TZ corp
#2 - As long as we didn't idle n the wormhole with MWD's running in a T1 frigate, we would be fine, because bomber camps against 150K EHP cloaky proteuses are, well, pretty damn pointless
#3 - I could tell who was online, what they were flying, and address the risk and alleged threat your clowns posed at any one time.

The watchlist was not the be-all and end-all of my intelligence gathering. Researching zkillboard and using half of one fifth of my brain was the majority of it.

I realised immediately, you and yours had no real teeth. You hadn't sieged anyone out. Haulers and mining barges would kill your bombers more often than not. You needed 12 guys to do anything. We could, and did, go about our business without interference. Finally, you were engaged in a collossal waste of time because your idiots never once brought a decent interdiction option to the field.

So is a watchlist bad? No.

it's a tool. A small and ineffectual tool. Which is why a small and ineffectual tool is trying to get it removed I suppose.

Sure, it's prone to abuse. Blood Union would invest billions of ISK in dreads, dread alts, etc, and seed hem into C5's inhabited by bears and pull logon traps partly informed by watchlists. But, and I'll educate you about what really happened because you weren't even playing the game when it happened, BU quit wormholes mostly when CCP removed API kill logging support and jump logging from wormhole systems, thereby invalidating BU's intel tool known as Siggy.

BU didn't even need to WL their victims to pull logon traps. a WL pinging with sign-ons is handy but it wouldn't have stopped them without the removal of NPC kill logging and jump logging which just showed a nice red or yellow flag on the holes in Siggy.

Would i want WL's removed? no. You know why? i have friends. Without a WL, the only way I now my friends, enemies and frienemies are online is to be in the same channel as them (local or otherwise).

Sure, some people may hate the fact I WL their whole active member base, but the key is that you and yours didn't get kills because a Wl informed me you were online. You didnt get kills because you were bad. Then you turned tail and ran abecause your corp is pathetic and weak when it comes to a pitched battle. if you hate the fact that camping a hole for weeks with bombers merely sees you get added to Wl and your sign on is greeted by derision in Local, well tough.

Trinkets when I read your posts I ignore all the parts about me and my corp being bad, because we aren't supposed to be good and frankly it has no affect on my wallet or general standings in Eve. So instead I will address your points, of which there seem to be two.

One, you used watch lists to gather Intel that you called useless. Sounds like an argument for its removal.

Second you said you want to use it for chatting. Consensual lists resolve that.

Pretty much this.


This is why it is really bad when a CSM has their own agenda.


Of all the things you could be concentrating on for WH space right now like the MASSIVE structure/pos changes you choose to spend some of your first actions delving into a non issue like bloody watchlists.

lol... seriously?

Each CSM member/candidate has their own agenda, for the group/play style they represent or the powers that put them in place.

Believing otherwise is naive.

Hey thanks for the feedback guys! Just two quick things:

1. Although I'm a CSM member, I hope you don't expect every single forum post I make going forward is part of some sinister agenda! I just thought of this off the cuff while reading the AFK cloaking discussion.
2. I would guess from the Fanfest presentation that the details for structures and how they'd work in w-space is not exactly at "show this to Chance in April 2015" levels of readiness, but it will be on my mind for the future.
3. I think based on the responses in here there are some strong opinions about this system, and I haven't seen it talked about in a long time (ever?). Wahoo!

What is more risk averse then gathering intel on people without being outside their POS shield?



I want people who gather intel to have to endure risk to do it. Be in space. Be at my POS. Don't gather intel on me from across New Eden with zero risk to yourself to know my patterns and activities. I see nothing but risk averse people wanting to have their perfect intel on my activities handed to them on a silver platter. I want those people to have to be in space directly and actively gathering intel at risk to themselves for doing it.

Yes, I want to take your tool away. Your zero effort, zero risk tool to hunt with.