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[April] Removal of Garage Door Cynos

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Dora Adant
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2015-04-02 14:19:16 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Dora Adant wrote:
so how are we as small entities supposed to move their supers now?

the warp speed changes really really ****** warping them to safe spots, phoebe made moving them anywhere at all already a massive pain in the gonads

so now we have to set up two POS for every jump? one to light the cyno on (with guns/jams) and one to huddle in waiting for the timer to expire?

with caution. Just like everyone else. You don't need absolute safety to move a super. That would be a self-imposed requirement.


caution is pretty much a moot point if you ever need to move past systems like mai, pynakastoh, oijanen etc (aka unavoidable chokepoints that are camped)
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#42 - 2015-04-02 15:03:42 UTC
I just take gates in my supercap. Ain't no thing.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#43 - 2015-04-02 15:07:19 UTC
Dora Adant wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Dora Adant wrote:
so how are we as small entities supposed to move their supers now?

the warp speed changes really really ****** warping them to safe spots, phoebe made moving them anywhere at all already a massive pain in the gonads

so now we have to set up two POS for every jump? one to light the cyno on (with guns/jams) and one to huddle in waiting for the timer to expire?

with caution. Just like everyone else. You don't need absolute safety to move a super. That would be a self-imposed requirement.


caution is pretty much a moot point if you ever need to move past systems like mai, pynakastoh, oijanen etc (aka unavoidable chokepoints that are camped)


Can't you use an extra jump on your trip to jump over those systems or are the systems they connect too far appart to even allow that?
Sadr Dillinger
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#44 - 2015-04-02 15:50:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Sadr Dillinger
Quid pro quo:

ArrowMake Warp Scrambling batteries infini-point
ArrowBeef up the powergrid on Large Control Towers to allow enough Large Turret batteries to be on-lined in order to be a serious threat to dreads, and if gunned properly, Supers.

Or;

ArrowMake Warp Scrambling batteries infini-point
ArrowIncrease the damage modifier on Large Turret batteries substantially, for similar effect e.g. 3x batteries > DPS than one sieged dread (this would require, at minimum, a 6 fold increase in base damage modifier, comparing like for like)

The OP doesn't address the root cause which drove 'garage door' behaviour in the first place, i.e. all the risk is on the pilot making the jump in his/her super. With the above changes the extreme time and effort of setting up and onlining a 'Deathstar POS' to cyno close to would be worth it, as it then pushes some of the risk onto those waiting to drop on 'lone scrub' in his/her super with a bored 'fishing fleet'.... i.e. there is real potential they could all end up being tackled on an actual 'Deathstar', with subsequent escalation/counter escalation.
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#45 - 2015-04-02 19:12:32 UTC
the root cause of garage door cynoing was that it was a mechanic that let you cyno in perfect safety in your expensive ship

there were not complex and deep underlying factors here
Sadr Dillinger
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#46 - 2015-04-02 19:42:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Sadr Dillinger
Don't agree at all.

Why would people have 'innovated' with Garage door-type mechanisms if it wasn't to overcome the inherent risk with owning and simply moving a super (particularly outside of a power block)? - simple, they wouldn't have.

So, make 'Deathstars' into real 'Deathstars' and share the risk around.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#47 - 2015-04-02 20:29:54 UTC
Sadr Dillinger wrote:
Don't agree at all.

Why would people have 'innovated' with Garage door-type mechanisms if it wasn't to overcome the inherent risk with owning and simply moving a super (particularly outside of a power block)? - simple, they wouldn't have.

So, make 'Deathstars' into real 'Deathstars' and share the risk around.


Here's a thought: How about you scale down? Risk included. Smile

A ten thousand Titan sale coming to a Sell Order forum near you. This Summer!

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#48 - 2015-04-02 20:33:00 UTC
what about garage door cynos on stations?

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#49 - 2015-04-02 20:38:30 UTC
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
what about garage door cynos on stations?


Something along the line of "can't light a cyno within X distance of the docking ring?
Sadr Dillinger
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#50 - 2015-04-02 20:38:46 UTC
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Sadr Dillinger wrote:
Don't agree at all.

Why would people have 'innovated' with Garage door-type mechanisms if it wasn't to overcome the inherent risk with owning and simply moving a super (particularly outside of a power block)? - simple, they wouldn't have.

So, make 'Deathstars' into real 'Deathstars' and share the risk around.


Here's a thought: How about you scale down? Risk included. Smile

A ten thousand Titan sale coming to a Sell Order forum near you. This Summer!
Afraid of having an actual fight (with attrition) over a straight up gank? Big smile
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#51 - 2015-04-02 20:45:34 UTC
Sadr Dillinger wrote:
Quid pro quo:

ArrowMake Warp Scrambling batteries infini-point
ArrowBeef up the powergrid on Large Control Towers to allow enough Large Turret batteries to be on-lined in order to be a serious threat to dreads, and if gunned properly, Supers.

Or;

ArrowMake Warp Scrambling batteries infini-point
ArrowIncrease the damage modifier on Large Turret batteries substantially, for similar effect e.g. 3x batteries > DPS than one sieged dread (this would require, at minimum, a 6 fold increase in base damage modifier, comparing like for like)

The OP doesn't address the root cause which drove 'garage door' behaviour in the first place, i.e. all the risk is on the pilot making the jump in his/her super. With the above changes the extreme time and effort of setting up and onlining a 'Deathstar POS' to cyno close to would be worth it, as it then pushes some of the risk onto those waiting to drop on 'lone scrub' in his/her super with a bored 'fishing fleet'.... i.e. there is real potential they could all end up being tackled on an actual 'Deathstar', with subsequent escalation/counter escalation.


Where the hell are your friends while you are moving strategic assets?
theelusiveyoda
Death Troopers
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#52 - 2015-04-02 20:53:14 UTC
Best Patch Fix Ever.
Sadr Dillinger
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#53 - 2015-04-02 20:56:58 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Sadr Dillinger wrote:
Quid pro quo:

ArrowMake Warp Scrambling batteries infini-point
ArrowBeef up the powergrid on Large Control Towers to allow enough Large Turret batteries to be on-lined in order to be a serious threat to dreads, and if gunned properly, Supers.

Or;

ArrowMake Warp Scrambling batteries infini-point
ArrowIncrease the damage modifier on Large Turret batteries substantially, for similar effect e.g. 3x batteries > DPS than one sieged dread (this would require, at minimum, a 6 fold increase in base damage modifier, comparing like for like)

The OP doesn't address the root cause which drove 'garage door' behaviour in the first place, i.e. all the risk is on the pilot making the jump in his/her super. With the above changes the extreme time and effort of setting up and onlining a 'Deathstar POS' to cyno close to would be worth it, as it then pushes some of the risk onto those waiting to drop on 'lone scrub' in his/her super with a bored 'fishing fleet'.... i.e. there is real potential they could all end up being tackled on an actual 'Deathstar', with subsequent escalation/counter escalation.


Where the hell are your friends while you are moving strategic assets?
With the above proposed changes?... Oh I'd have them all sat in HIC's waiting to trap the first 'fishing fleet' that thinks it has an 'easy' super gank... Twisted
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#54 - 2015-04-02 21:04:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Sadr Dillinger wrote:
Quid pro quo:

ArrowMake Warp Scrambling batteries infini-point
ArrowBeef up the powergrid on Large Control Towers to allow enough Large Turret batteries to be on-lined in order to be a serious threat to dreads, and if gunned properly, Supers.

Or;

ArrowMake Warp Scrambling batteries infini-point
ArrowIncrease the damage modifier on Large Turret batteries substantially, for similar effect e.g. 3x batteries > DPS than one sieged dread (this would require, at minimum, a 6 fold increase in base damage modifier, comparing like for like)

The OP doesn't address the root cause which drove 'garage door' behaviour in the first place, i.e. all the risk is on the pilot making the jump in his/her super. With the above changes the extreme time and effort of setting up and onlining a 'Deathstar POS' to cyno close to would be worth it, as it then pushes some of the risk onto those waiting to drop on 'lone scrub' in his/her super with a bored 'fishing fleet'.... i.e. there is real potential they could all end up being tackled on an actual 'Deathstar', with subsequent escalation/counter escalation.


Where the hell are your friends while you are moving strategic assets?


Dis one tiem I was moving my Erebus solo thru Aridia without a Garage Cyno mid-point and gots tackled by two Devoters from Lowsechnaya Sholupen, which had been watching my cyno alt for the past 7 hours... Was a bad tiem for me. vOv

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Kyalla Ahashion
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#55 - 2015-04-02 21:30:20 UTC
I seem to recall this having been declared an exploit a long long time ago....

I found this on https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Exploit_notifications

Quote:


Cynosural Field activation inside forcefields

Cynosural field inside starbase forcefield is an exploit! - Reported: 2008.04.02 16:10:21

Announcement on exploit: Invulnerability when activating Cynosural Fields inside Starbase Forcefield

There have been some cases where players have been able to place a cynosural field inside their Starbase forcefield and thus gaining certain advantages for themselves and their cyno-jumping allies. It should not be possible to deploy a cyno-field inside a Starbase forcefield, this is therefore classed as an exploit and we will take action against anyone found using it.

Lighting a cyno in space next to a POS tower, before activating a force field surrounding the cynosural beacon, is also an exploit and falls under this.


Although that's an ancient page, I can't find anything that supersedes it either ...


Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#56 - 2015-04-02 21:37:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
That is a very interesting find, Kyalla Ahashion.

I think a lot of important things such as these had become neglected circa around post-BoB war, and the start of a New and Glorious Era, when/where everything seemed Perfect, and player activity had been posting new highs every three weeks probably? Glorious capital warfare could not be disturbed, not when EvE was making headlines across the globe.

Anyway, everything worked, until it didn't. Sad

Who wants a donut? Big smile

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#57 - 2015-04-02 21:39:07 UTC  |  Edited by: EvilweaselFinance
Sadr Dillinger wrote:
Don't agree at all.

Why would people have 'innovated' with Garage door-type mechanisms if it wasn't to overcome the inherent risk with owning and simply moving a super (particularly outside of a power block)? - simple, they wouldn't have.

So, make 'Deathstars' into real 'Deathstars' and share the risk around.

i figured out garage door cynos on my own for my jump freighter, and i'm in a power bloc, and i used them routinely

people innovated because it turned jumps into risk-free operations, something people strive for in a risky game
Sadr Dillinger
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#58 - 2015-04-02 21:59:27 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Sadr Dillinger wrote:
Don't agree at all.

Why would people have 'innovated' with Garage door-type mechanisms if it wasn't to overcome the inherent risk with owning and simply moving a super (particularly outside of a power block)? - simple, they wouldn't have.

So, make 'Deathstars' into real 'Deathstars' and share the risk around.

i figured out garage door cynos on my own for my jump freighter, and i'm in a power bloc, and i used them routinely

people innovated because it turned jumps into risk-free operations, something people strive for in a risky game
A jump freighter is a completely different proposition (hello staton interior).

I'm all for removing the 'garage door', but at the same at time, believe a large 'Deathstar' should be made a much more valid threat, to provide a real degree of risk to anyone trying to jump onto a target that is cyno'ing just outside of one, and conversely, a decent degree of protection ('degree', not 'guaranteed'.....) to the person jumping to it.
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#59 - 2015-04-02 22:04:04 UTC
honestly if you think that players need a motivation to innovate new strategies and that motivation must be a flaw in the game you're playing the wrong game
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#60 - 2015-04-02 22:05:14 UTC
this is not to say that pos weaponry shouldn't be updated, just that your argument that the garage door mechanic only exists because supers are ~too risky~ (death2supers) is so hilariously bad it is hard to know where to start on what is wrong with that idea