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Bye Bye AFK Cloaking

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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#261 - 2015-03-31 21:03:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
baltec1 wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
AFK cloaing isn't a way to mess with the intel.


It is the only way to mess with it.

No matter what ship, fittings or tactics you use you show up in local chat the second you enter or leave the system, it is impossible to avoid. we can only use one tactic and that is to sit in local for days at a time and prey the targets do something stupid like go ratting without an organised defence.

Remove AFK cloaking and there is nothing to counter the intel from local.
But it's not a counter to local. It doesn't stop local working, it doesn't counter it's ability to detect new players. It uses local as a tool to counter PvE activity, that's all.

And no, that's not all you can do. thousands of kills occur every single day without AFK cloakers being involved, so obviously there's other things that work.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#262 - 2015-04-01 13:33:55 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
... Bottom line is that indefinite AFK cloaking is bad for the game. Look at how it gets used and look at how "that one big organization" that can deal with it sells nullsec carebearing to the same kind of people they complain about who go carebearing elsewhere and don't join their large organization. All of the arguments are transparent.
...
Are people this blind to their own folly? No wonder the world is going down the toilet.
I concur.
EVE could do with some target marketing (Ubuntu Software Center for Linux types, resource sites that coders and engineers call upon, et cetera) and a few more Darwin steps especially in the "end game" areas. Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Nina Lowel
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#263 - 2015-04-01 15:49:11 UTC
Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#264 - 2015-04-01 15:52:28 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
AFK cloaing isn't a way to mess with the intel.


It is the only way to mess with it.

No matter what ship, fittings or tactics you use you show up in local chat the second you enter or leave the system, it is impossible to avoid. we can only use one tactic and that is to sit in local for days at a time and prey the targets do something stupid like go ratting without an organised defence.

Remove AFK cloaking and there is nothing to counter the intel from local.
But it's not a counter to local. It doesn't stop local working, it doesn't counter it's ability to detect new players. It uses local as a tool to counter PvE activity, that's all.

And no, that's not all you can do. thousands of kills occur every single day without AFK cloakers being involved, so obviously there's other things that work.


People being idiots is not a counter to local. Same way people being idiots was not a counter to remote doomsdays.

AFK cloaking is currently the only way to get around being detected instantly in local and that only works if people chose to not organise a defence.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#265 - 2015-04-01 15:53:49 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Nina Lowel wrote:
Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time?

Why should you be able to dock in a station and heve the exact same effect?

Why should people have a 100% accurate, instant, free, no effort, unavoidable intel tool?
Nina Lowel
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#266 - 2015-04-01 15:56:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Nina Lowel
baltec1 wrote:
Nina Lowel wrote:
Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time?

Why should you be able to dock in a station and heve the exact same effect?



A station can be conquered if you never undock. I can force a fight by attempting to take the station. N3 are realizing this right now, are they not?

So again, why should you be able to go inactive in hostile space and expect invincibility?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#267 - 2015-04-01 15:59:31 UTC
Nina Lowel wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nina Lowel wrote:
Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time?

Why should you be able to dock in a station and heve the exact same effect?



A station can be conquered if you never undock. I can force a fight by attempting to take the station. N3 are realizing this right now, are they not?

So again, why should you be able to go inactive in hostile space and expect invincibility?


Stations cannot be captured.
Ito Eto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#268 - 2015-04-01 16:01:21 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Nina Lowel wrote:
Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time?

Why should you be able to dock in a station and heve the exact same effect?

Why should people have a 100% accurate, instant, free, no effort, unavoidable intel tool?


Pretty sure you can see them in the station guest list then, and have some idea of where they will be when they undock into your bubble camp.

"Themepark" "Sandbox", these do not mean what you think they mean, EvE is as on rails as a freight train, and has as many attractions as Disneyland, but soundbites are easy, thinking is not.
Nina Lowel
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#269 - 2015-04-01 16:01:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Nina Lowel
baltec1 wrote:
Nina Lowel wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nina Lowel wrote:
Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time?

Why should you be able to dock in a station and heve the exact same effect?



A station can be conquered if you never undock. I can force a fight by attempting to take the station. N3 are realizing this right now, are they not?

So again, why should you be able to go inactive in hostile space and expect invincibility?


Stations cannot be captured.



I'm sorry, are you seriously complaining about NPC null, lowsec, and empire stations not being capturable? And if so, as someone mentioned above, you can see them in the guest list and you know where they are.

So again, why should you be able to go AFK in hostile space and expect invincibility?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#270 - 2015-04-01 16:05:23 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Nina Lowel wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nina Lowel wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nina Lowel wrote:
Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time?

Why should you be able to dock in a station and heve the exact same effect?



A station can be conquered if you never undock. I can force a fight by attempting to take the station. N3 are realizing this right now, are they not?

So again, why should you be able to go inactive in hostile space and expect invincibility?


Stations cannot be captured.



I'm sorry, are you seriously complaining about NPC null, lowsec, and empire stations not being capturable?


No, I am pointing out the stupidity in your argument. I can do the exact same thing as afk cloaking using stations. I will also point out that you ignored my second question.

As to why we should be able to afk cloak. Its the only counter we have to local for our ships.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#271 - 2015-04-01 16:09:46 UTC
Ito Eto wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nina Lowel wrote:
Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time?

Why should you be able to dock in a station and heve the exact same effect?

Why should people have a 100% accurate, instant, free, no effort, unavoidable intel tool?


Pretty sure you can see them in the station guest list then, and have some idea of where they will be when they undock into your bubble camp.


Which can only be done in null space and begs the question:

I you would dedicate people to defending a system from someone docked why are you unwilling to do the exact same thing with an AFK cloaker?
Nina Lowel
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#272 - 2015-04-01 16:09:51 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


No, I am pointing out the stupidity in your argument. I can do the exact same thing as afk cloaking using stations.



They are not the same in the slightest. You know exactly where they are if they are in a station. You know the exact second they undock.

The only stupidity in the argument is what you are exhibiting by comparing the two.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#273 - 2015-04-01 16:14:01 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
AFK cloaking is currently the only way to get around being detected instantly in local and that only works if people chose to not organise a defence.
It doesn't get around it. People are still instantly detected even when there's an AFK cloaker in system. And if people organise a defense it's actually more effective, since you've now got a whole group of players not doing what they would normally be doing because you're in bed but logged on.

baltec1 wrote:
No, I am pointing out the stupidity in your argument. I can do the exact same thing as afk cloaking using stations. I will also point out that you ignored my second question.
Actually it's not the same thing, since as has been stated multiple times including a few posts above, a docked player can be observed, his location is known and can be guarded. Once he's in that station he committed himself to that. If the station is camped he's out of luck. An AFK cloaker doesn't have that worry.

baltec1 wrote:
As to why we should be able to afk cloak. Its the only counter we have to local for our ships.
It doesn't counter local. It's a guerrilla warfare tactic to attack PvE efficiency. Local remains just as it ever has whether there's an AFK cloaker or not.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#274 - 2015-04-01 16:17:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
PvE efficiency.

Carebears who want to play in nullsec, because it means more money ...
... but want it to be as safe as highsec, because they are cowards.

Because the only thing that matters to them is their greed ...
... and the safety and isolation that allows them to fill their egos.

PvE efficiency.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#275 - 2015-04-01 16:17:48 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Which can only be done in null space and begs the question:

I you would dedicate people to defending a system from someone docked why are you unwilling to do the exact same thing with an AFK cloaker?
A docked player has only one point of exit and has to go through it to do anything and can be guarded by one person if they have the ship and skill to fight the docked player. An AFK cloaker can appear right next to any target they choose or can simply choose to leave. Short of a massive gatecamp and an enormous amount of luck, you're not going to stop him.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#276 - 2015-04-01 16:18:33 UTC
Nina Lowel wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


No, I am pointing out the stupidity in your argument. I can do the exact same thing as afk cloaking using stations.



They are not the same in the slightest. You know exactly where they are if they are in a station. You know the exact second they undock.

The only stupidity in the argument is what you are exhibiting by comparing the two.


So you dedicate someone to watching me 24/7? Not going to happen.

You might know where I am but you are not going know when I am active or what ship is going to pop out, Im just a name in local and station.
Nina Lowel
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#277 - 2015-04-01 16:19:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Nina Lowel
Eve Solecist wrote:
PvE efficiency.

Carebears who want to play in nullsec, because it means more money ...
... but want it to be as safe as highsec, because they are cowards.

Because the only thing that matters to them is their greed ...
... and the safety and isolation that allows them to fill their egos.

PvE efficiency.



So only people who want to pick on those PvE's are allowed to have fun? Why don't you engage those fit to PvP? Right, you want to bad your board too :)

I rat so I can buy PvP things. I don't rat just to see my wallet expand.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#278 - 2015-04-01 16:21:20 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Which can only be done in null space and begs the question:

I you would dedicate people to defending a system from someone docked why are you unwilling to do the exact same thing with an AFK cloaker?
A docked player has only one point of exit and has to go through it to do anything and can be guarded by one person if they have the ship and skill to fight the docked player. An AFK cloaker can appear right next to any target they choose or can simply choose to leave. Short of a massive gatecamp and an enormous amount of luck, you're not going to stop him.


You will with an organised defence. We do it day in day out.

No, what you want is the ability to ensure a perfect safety net via local intel.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#279 - 2015-04-01 16:22:08 UTC
Eve Solecist wrote:
PvE efficiency.

Carebears who want to play in nullsec, because it means more money ...
... but want it to be as safe as highsec, because they are cowards.

PvE efficiency.
That's not it at all. Null players have no problem with risk, what there's a problem with here is players who can retain 100% pure safety while away from their computer. If anyone's carebearing here it's the AFK cloakers telling everyone how entitled they are to their zero effort, 100% safe mechanic. If someone wants to actively stay in system threatening PvE players, that's no problem.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#280 - 2015-04-01 16:25:24 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Eve Solecist wrote:
PvE efficiency.

Carebears who want to play in nullsec, because it means more money ...
... but want it to be as safe as highsec, because they are cowards.

PvE efficiency.
That's not it at all. Null players have no problem with risk, what there's a problem with here is players who can retain 100% pure safety while away from their computer. If anyone's carebearing here it's the AFK cloakers telling everyone how entitled they are to their zero effort, 100% safe mechanic. If someone wants to actively stay in system threatening PvE players, that's no problem.


Yet here you are pushing for a 100% foolproof intel system that would mean pve players could avoid any attempt at pvp on them.