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Crime & Punishment

 
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Sad State of Empire Space

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Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#101 - 2015-03-30 18:20:50 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
I always get a sad when someone tells me to go to null or low if I want to pvp.
I grew up in high sec. I live there. I kill there. I die there.
I don't see how pvp in any one sector of space is any more or less valid than another. They just are different with different nuances attached.
Sour grapes seems to be a recurring thing. Were I to suicide gank, people would berate me for attacking defenseless haulers and miners. Mission flipping, I'm a bad person because I took my pvp frigate against their pve battleship and that's not FAIR.
If I go to null then I'm a blobber or F1 monkey. And so on and so forth.
So long as someone is exploding what is the real problem? Blood makes the grass grow.


Don't forget the stereotype that low sec pirates are worth less than the scum on your boot. And FW guys only PVP to make money. Everyone has things to say about groups that don't do what THEY want to do. There's content in all areas of space, anyone who doesn't see that hasn't looked hard enough. And there's a big difference between not looking, and having looked and not found what they were looking for.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#102 - 2015-03-30 18:24:44 UTC
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote:
*Words of Wisdom*

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#103 - 2015-03-30 23:14:48 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote:
I've got a feeling (and a number of forum posts here only reaffirm it) that the inhabitants of other regions in EVE tend to look down on all highsec dwellers, both carebears and those who bother them. It seems that it's become a conventional wisdom that it's lowsec, null, and W-space that are are the places where one can find real content and those fabled "goodfites" everyone is talking about. As for highsec (except for RvB, arguably), there's nothing but griefers, merc slapfights, and cheap drama there, so anyone who's looking for real PvP should immediately leave highsec.
.


Very true. I wish I had stopped reading here so I wasn't bothered with drivel about how challenging it is to run a disposable ganking alt.

Ganking alts are the only non disposable alts because it is not allowed to biomass a char with negative sec status. And why should someone biomass his ganking toon? I mean i'm a ganker, i'm -10 and I am totaly happy with that, because it is fun to play eve that way. I mean when I look at your killboard, THAT is a reason for biomassing his toon.

Evil RatKid
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#104 - 2015-03-31 02:11:50 UTC
The TL;DR version of this entire thread is:

OP wants High Sec to be everything Low Sec already is but won't move to Low Sec because low sec targets shoot back.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#105 - 2015-03-31 04:32:00 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
The TL;DR version of this entire thread is:

OP wants High Sec to be everything Low Sec already is but won't move to Low Sec because low sec targets shoot back.


+1
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#106 - 2015-03-31 04:55:58 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
The TL;DR version of this entire thread is:

OP wants High Sec to be everything Low Sec already is but won't move to Low Sec because low sec targets shoot back.



I'd rather live in lowsec than high, but lowsec is too empty. Something to do with 'optimal' (i.e. L4 blitzing in marauders, or incursions in shiny boats) highsec PVE being higher reward and lower risk than 'optimal' (i.e. L4 blitzing in MWD/cloak equipped HACs or T3s, or incursions in cheapfit tech 1 hulls) lowsec PVE.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#107 - 2015-03-31 05:32:09 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
The TL;DR version of this entire thread is:

OP wants High Sec to be everything Low Sec already is but won't move to Low Sec because low sec targets shoot back.



I'd rather live in lowsec than high, but lowsec is too empty. Something to do with 'optimal' (i.e. L4 blitzing in marauders, or incursions in shiny boats) highsec PVE being higher reward and lower risk than 'optimal' (i.e. L4 blitzing in MWD/cloak equipped HACs or T3s, or incursions in cheapfit tech 1 hulls) lowsec PVE.




CODE have a different goal to what the OP is wanting - You guys are usually happy enforcing the CODE and don't pretend to want PvP.

(Loyal would occasionally leeroy a few ships into us in Rakapas when he wanted proper PvP after a hard day of enforcing the CODE)

The OP is basically saying he wants PvP content to happen via PvE.
All he has to do is run sites in Low Sec and he will have his wish.



Oh yeah....
Hope your BDay night out was fun after you left the Melb meet up.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#108 - 2015-03-31 06:42:03 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
The TL;DR version of this entire thread is:

OP wants High Sec to be everything Low Sec already is but won't move to Low Sec because low sec targets shoot back.



I'd rather live in lowsec than high, but lowsec is too empty. Something to do with 'optimal' (i.e. L4 blitzing in marauders, or incursions in shiny boats) highsec PVE being higher reward and lower risk than 'optimal' (i.e. L4 blitzing in MWD/cloak equipped HACs or T3s, or incursions in cheapfit tech 1 hulls) lowsec PVE.




CODE have a different goal to what the OP is wanting - You guys are usually happy enforcing the CODE and don't pretend to want PvP.

(Loyal would occasionally leeroy a few ships into us in Rakapas when he wanted proper PvP after a hard day of enforcing the CODE)

The OP is basically saying he wants PvP content to happen via PvE.
All he has to do is run sites in Low Sec and he will have his wish.



Oh yeah....
Hope your BDay night out was fun after you left the Melb meet up.



We do have a wardeccing wing in CODE., although it's a work in progress. Shooting people that shoot back is definitely part of what we do.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#109 - 2015-03-31 15:26:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Mobadder Thworst
IbanezLaney wrote:
The TL;DR version of this entire thread is:

OP wants High Sec to be everything Low Sec already is but won't move to Low Sec because low sec targets shoot back.


This is all a misunderstanding really.

You want to play Eve like counter strike. Pew pew action and camaraderie. I think that's cool.

However, I want to play eve like Grand Theft auto. I want police chases, crime, theft, mayhem, etc...

There are no police or law abiding citizens in low sec, so it's just counter strike. I like counter strike, but I love the depth of GTA. You can't have crime in counter strike because you expect everyone to shoot at you.

Does that make me risk averse? Not in my mind. It just makes me someone who likes GTA... Which was popular enough to be called normal.

Why be so mean about it?
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#110 - 2015-03-31 15:33:21 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Shooting people that shoot back is definitely part of what we do.


Not to mention that everyone *can* shoot back, it's just some prefer to do so by crying on the forum.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#111 - 2015-03-31 23:21:36 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
The TL;DR version of this entire thread is:

OP wants High Sec to be everything Low Sec already is but won't move to Low Sec because low sec targets shoot back.


+1



Veers,
Just try it. Just let me teach you, you don't even have to fight anyone.

Think of the good you could do...
Mo
Kaely Tanniss
Black Lotus Society.
#112 - 2015-04-01 01:07:49 UTC
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
The TL;DR version of this entire thread is:

OP wants High Sec to be everything Low Sec already is but won't move to Low Sec because low sec targets shoot back.


+1



Veers,
Just try it. Just let me teach you, you don't even have to fight anyone.

Think of the good you could do...
Mo


As much as it would be good for him Mo, I'm afraid you are wasting your breath. He is too set in his mentality to see beyond what he believes. It's a shame really. Once he saw the light and all that could be if he just opened that door...he would find a whole new world of understanding of what Eve is all about. He'd probably be good at it too...but I guess we, or he, will never know. Smile

If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#113 - 2015-04-01 03:18:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Veers Belvar
Mobadder Thworst wrote:



Veers,
Just try it. Just let me teach you, you don't even have to fight anyone.

Think of the good you could do...
Mo


If I wanted to shoot people, I'd go to nullsec.
Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#114 - 2015-04-01 03:52:36 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Mobadder Thworst wrote:



Veers,
Just try it. Just let me teach you, you don't even have to fight anyone.

Think of the good you could do...
Mo


If I wanted to shoot people, I'd go to nullsec.



Veers,
I'm not offering to help you shoot people... But I am offering you my time. I don't understand what about that makes you angry.

I'm offering to teach you how to fight well. Even if it only comes into play when someone is ganking you, it's good to know.

You don't have to shoot anyone to have a firm command of maneuver and damage mechanics. There are tricks I could show you that, to me are valuable for station games... But would be just as effective at helping a miner prevent ganks.

Just so you know, even in the large merc corps, only about 10% of the players have really solid command of what I teach.

In my opinion, that's value. I've fought a little of everything and I can tell you that nobody will be able to push you around once you learn what I teach.

Why it angers you that I'd offer you something like this baffles me.

I'm trying to invest in you... If you looked at my tutorial, it's all about helping other players.
Mo
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#115 - 2015-04-01 03:55:18 UTC
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Mobadder Thworst wrote:



Veers,
Just try it. Just let me teach you, you don't even have to fight anyone.

Think of the good you could do...
Mo


If I wanted to shoot people, I'd go to nullsec.



Veers,
I'm not offering to help you shoot people... But I am offering you my time. I don't understand what about that makes you angry.

I'm offering to teach you how to fight well. Even if it only comes into play when someone is ganking you, it's good to know.

You don't have to shoot anyone to have a firm command of maneuver and damage mechanics. There are tricks I could show you that, to me are valuable for station games... But would be just as effective at helping a miner prevent ganks.

Just so you know, even in the large merc corps, only about 10% of the players have really solid command of what I teach.

In my opinion, that's value. I've fought a little of everything and I can tell you that nobody will be able to push you around once you learn what I teach.

Why it angers you that I'd offer you something like this baffles me.

I'm trying to invest in you... If you looked at my tutorial, it's all about helping other players.
Mo


Angry? No, just not interested. I'd rather do collaborative PvE than shoot at people. Most of the PvP players end up socially dysfunctiona; like the Goons.
Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#116 - 2015-04-01 04:25:58 UTC
Ok, well damage and maneuver mechanics are just as applicable in PVE.

Let's collaborate on PVE, like you said.
Mo
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#117 - 2015-04-01 06:59:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Omar Alharazaad
Think you may be wasting your time here Mo. I admire your tenacity and compassion in this matter, but I can also understand Veers' hesitancy. Aside from being terribly set in his ways and opinions when it comes to PVP in the game he also has two very rational fears that are standing in the way of any kind of educational and collaborative effort between the two of you.

The first is that over the course of many months he's managed to alienate, annoy and otherwise irritate a vast number of people with his unrelenting avalanche of 'pvp bad!' shiptoasts... and as such he fears, and rightly so that he may become the victim of some kind of high security space hate crime if he ventures out into the deep black with a scary pvp person. While there are few of his fans that could be bothered to get out of their chair to hunt him down, there are many who would likely pay a fair sum of ISK for his frozen corpse.

The second, of course, is that he might actually have fun. I'm pretty sure this is even scarier to him than the first reason. The blow this would deal to his worldview could have dire consequences as he tries to reconcile his beliefs against what he was experiencing. No, I think he's pot committed to his stance. If you have any success with him then good job, you're a more patient man than I.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2015-04-01 07:16:00 UTC
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
The TL;DR version of this entire thread is:

OP wants High Sec to be everything Low Sec already is but won't move to Low Sec because low sec targets shoot back.


This is all a misunderstanding really.

You want to play Eve like counter strike. Pew pew action and camaraderie. I think that's cool.

However, I want to play eve like Grand Theft auto. I want police chases, crime, theft, mayhem, etc...

There are no police or law abiding citizens in low sec, so it's just counter strike. I like counter strike, but I love the depth of GTA. You can't have crime in counter strike because you expect everyone to shoot at you.

Does that make me risk averse? Not in my mind. It just makes me someone who likes GTA... Which was popular enough to be called normal.

Why be so mean about it?


Highsec pvp is 99% baby seal clubbing. You know it. Counterstrike comparison is bad. Lowsec/nullsec pvp has just as much opportunity for meta gaming and mischief, the exception being that your opponents will be far more savvy on and off the field.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2015-04-01 07:23:31 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote:
I've got a feeling (and a number of forum posts here only reaffirm it) that the inhabitants of other regions in EVE tend to look down on all highsec dwellers, both carebears and those who bother them. It seems that it's become a conventional wisdom that it's lowsec, null, and W-space that are are the places where one can find real content and those fabled "goodfites" everyone is talking about. As for highsec (except for RvB, arguably), there's nothing but griefers, merc slapfights, and cheap drama there, so anyone who's looking for real PvP should immediately leave highsec.
.


Very true. I wish I had stopped reading here so I wasn't bothered with drivel about how challenging it is to run a disposable ganking alt.

Ganking alts are the only non disposable alts because it is not allowed to biomass a char with negative sec status. And why should someone biomass his ganking toon? I mean i'm a ganker, i'm -10 and I am totaly happy with that, because it is fun to play eve that way. I mean when I look at your killboard, THAT is a reason for biomassing his toon.



Ganking alts are dedicated to one purpose; you incur no real penalty for being -10 aside from losing a ganking ship and an empty pod. You use other characters/accounts when you want/need to do something else. There is no skill to ganking beyond basic knowledge of crimewatch. It's just a math problem. You don't have to actually fly your ship.

I didn't claim to be a pvp all star, but if I only fought with a blob or 3 logi alts to back me up I could do a pretty good imitation of one. There's got to be more to this game than being 1 of 10 or 100 involved parties for every kill.
Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#120 - 2015-04-01 09:15:21 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
The TL;DR version of this entire thread is:

OP wants High Sec to be everything Low Sec already is but won't move to Low Sec because low sec targets shoot back.


This is all a misunderstanding really.

You want to play Eve like counter strike. Pew pew action and camaraderie. I think that's cool.

However, I want to play eve like Grand Theft auto. I want police chases, crime, theft, mayhem, etc...

There are no police or law abiding citizens in low sec, so it's just counter strike. I like counter strike, but I love the depth of GTA. You can't have crime in counter strike because you expect everyone to shoot at you.

Does that make me risk averse? Not in my mind. It just makes me someone who likes GTA... Which was popular enough to be called normal.

Why be so mean about it?


Highsec pvp is 99% baby seal clubbing. You know it. Counterstrike comparison is bad. Lowsec/nullsec pvp has just as much opportunity for meta gaming and mischief, the exception being that your opponents will be far more savvy on and off the field.


Oh? How can I crime it up in null or low?

High sec has better mechanics for it.

I don't see how the comparison is bad.