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[New structures] Assembly Array and Research Laboratories

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Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2015-03-30 07:06:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Spugg Galdon
Rawketsled wrote:
From a hand-wavey lore point of view, that doesn't work with non-Physics science skills. Electronic, Mechanical, Molecular, and Nanite Engineering skills won't make sense with that.



Ancient Wreck Site:
A large wreck of an ancient ship is found floating in space.
> Although completely inoperable, the engine bay is exposed. Perhaps research of the mechanics of this engine system could provide some insight into rocket science.
> Although completely ruined and unable to be powered back up, the ship's computer seems to be accessible. Perhaps research of this ancient technology could provide some insight into Electronic Engineering.
> A small area of the ship seems to have been partially repaired. The work hasn't been completed but your sensor detect what appear to be microscopic maintenance bots. Perhaps some research of the inactive micro maintenance bots could shed some light onto Nanite Technology.



................ I can make shite like this up all day long if it's required for "lore" in order to make it fit into the game. It's not difficult and easily scalable and can even be applied to different ancient races. These sites can provide a "danger" to them by simply having the ancient ship automatically defend itself.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#82 - 2015-03-30 15:49:35 UTC
They could make it so a research station could increase the rate of spawns of certain data and relic sites. maybe new types.

They could even add ancient race sites specifically found (spawned) by the research structures that give more datacores of a specific type by salvaging and reverse engineering what's there. That's possibly a gameplay AND lore bonus, and I would certainly love to see more of the talocan, yan jung and takmahl as well as more of those cosmos modules
Samsara Toldya
Academy of Contradictory Behaviour
#83 - 2015-03-31 08:47:52 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Hello people,

We would like your feedback on the various new structure lines presented during Fanfest and on our latest structure blog.

This particular thread is going to focus Assembly Arrays and Research Laboratories.


  • Assembly Arrays focus on manufacturing of the numerous EVE Online items, ships, modules, structures, components and etc... used in-game.

  • Research Laboratories are dedicated to blueprint research (ME, TE), blueprint copying, Tech II and Tech III blueprint invention, and datacore spawning.


As far as I can tell no further details have been published.
We have an artwork and an ISIS like tree with few details that won't work (0 service slots for medium structure with 1 service slot needed to do anything at all).

What kind of feedback do you expect?

Name? It's ok.
Gfx? Ok.
Function? Not known, not important, we want to look at things, not use them.

As name and gfx are fine - you might proceed to release them.
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#84 - 2015-03-31 09:40:47 UTC
Are there any specifics for datacore spawning yet? How will players control the spawning of datacores?
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#85 - 2015-03-31 11:51:08 UTC
A -1 from me for the proposal to make datacores spawn from POSes as this would mean inventors would need to use a POS rather than an NPC station. It is an anti-choice decision.

It also doesn't seem logical for a physical object to appear out of nowhere and makes no sense. I wasn't in favour of datacores coming from FW LP either but at least that has a basis in logic.

I suggest leaving datacores where they are at present with supplies coming from R&D agents and FW LP stores. Smile

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#86 - 2015-03-31 11:54:34 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:


For one these are DATACORES as in like hard drives filled with data....they are not mined.....they are written to by the researchers of specific categories of data.....sheesh. So allowing research characters to build them makes sense.



But we need to get people into space doing things.

I only use the term "Mining" as it is what most closely resembles the same activity.

Imagine the sun produced 4 different kinds of solar anomalies that had to be scanned down with probes.

A Solar Flare:
Solar flares release huge ammounts of high energy particles which are tremendously hot. Activating a research module on this type of anomaly would produce High Energy Physics Datacores (you're researching high energy physics by doing an action like mining on a solar flare) Proximity to this anomalie would do AoE kinetic damage

A Solar Prominance:
Solar prominance is held together with massive magnetic fields. Activating a research module on this type of anomaly would produce Electromagnetic Physics Datacores. These would have EM AoE damage

A Sun Spot:
Sun spots would allow you to gather Nuclear Physics datacores. They would have a thermal AoE damage

An Imminant CME (Coronal Mass Ejection)
These would allow the gathering of Plasma Physics datacores. Thw area would produce explosive AoE damage

Now, other types of research sites:
Highly Unstable Wormhole (non traversable) - Kinetic and EM AoE damage

Event Horizon Anomaly (centre of wormhole):
Research of this would produce Quantum Physics Datacores

Gravitation Anomaly (in the wormholes "rings"):
Study of this would produce Graviton Physics datacores

The other datacores would have other sites. All found through probes.

The ship line that would do this would be the SoCT ship line. They have flat resistance profiles allowing them to spec tank easily. They are the "Teaching" faction so it fits that they would do research.



What I'm suggesting is that it shouldn't be a passive production but an actual activity in space, in a ship, at extremely visually cool sites with some danger to them. Be that area of effect damage for some sites and NPC rats at others. They can also be scaled easily for system sec status. Lower sec status gives anomalies that produce more datacores per cycle of the research module.


Sounds like a 'mini-game' to me. Sad

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Webster Carr
Carr Consolidated Corporation
#87 - 2015-03-31 18:24:56 UTC
Droidyk wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
[quote=Spugg Galdon][quote=elitatwo][quote=Spugg Galdon]

Thus rendering research agents uttelry useless unless the number of datacores they provide is buffed accordingly, which would of course then crash the market!


That is what they are trying to achieve, agents would be removed. It has been said before.


Why not keep both methods? It is always possible to have multiple paths to the same goal. If you want to use research agents, leave them in place, if you want to build a structure supply data cores, do it that way....
Webster Carr
Carr Consolidated Corporation
#88 - 2015-03-31 18:32:50 UTC
Gfy Trextron wrote:
So for a guy or small group of guys to compete, you are taking away the ability to have 1 structure that can copy, print, invent, reprocess, and build with the proper mods at an equal efficiency to everyone else (barring 0.0 advantages) and now requiring them to have 3 structures to operate at equal efficiency.

You keep saying that the structures can be adapted like a ship, do some things well and others ok. This may seem fair to you in some way, but it is not when you have to rely on a large infrastructure to operate efficiently. This only forces people to join large entities with numerous resources.

This potentially goes beyond risk vs reward to unbalanced cost of production.





What if, in addition to all of the specialized types there was added a generalized structure with lesser (or no) bonuses to all roles. It could never equal the raw output of what the specialized structures could do, but it could fit and do all or most of the activities. In addition: when the transition came all of the existing POS structures could simply be transformed into the new type of general structure with similar mods in place.

Web
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#89 - 2015-03-31 23:09:17 UTC
Webster Carr wrote:

What if, in addition to all of the specialized types there was added a generalized structure with lesser (or no) bonuses to all roles. It could never equal the raw output of what the specialized structures could do, but it could fit and do all or most of the activities. In addition: when the transition came all of the existing POS structures could simply be transformed into the new type of general structure with similar mods in place.

Web

If you watch the whole stream of Fanfest, they actually said that the service modules would/should be cross fittable.
So you can fit a research service module into an assembly array, it just won't get the role bonus of the structure. Just like you can fit lasers onto a Rokh. But it gets no bonus to them.

So we don't need a generic structure, because assuming that's accurate, and the service slots aren't overly specific (Looking at you assembly arrays where you need 20 or 30 of them to produce everything) then you can have a generic structure based on how you fit it.
Lurifax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#90 - 2015-04-01 08:53:53 UTC
The passive income from the datacores is bad. We dont need passive income. Remove the agents and please no can that will give you free data cores. The data sites are bad enough as it is.
Flamespar
WarRavens
#91 - 2015-04-01 09:51:45 UTC
It would be good if research laboratories gave some benefits to exploration gameplay. Perhaps giving an overview of exploration sites in the system/constellation/region depending on size. Or even allowing us to detect new deep space exploration sites.

It would also be cool if we could discover and sell the locations of sites via these structures.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2015-04-01 09:53:26 UTC
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:


For one these are DATACORES as in like hard drives filled with data....they are not mined.....they are written to by the researchers of specific categories of data.....sheesh. So allowing research characters to build them makes sense.



But we need to get people into space doing things.

I only use the term "Mining" as it is what most closely resembles the same activity.

Imagine the sun produced 4 different kinds of solar anomalies that had to be scanned down with probes.

A Solar Flare:
Solar flares release huge ammounts of high energy particles which are tremendously hot. Activating a research module on this type of anomaly would produce High Energy Physics Datacores (you're researching high energy physics by doing an action like mining on a solar flare) Proximity to this anomalie would do AoE kinetic damage

A Solar Prominance:
Solar prominance is held together with massive magnetic fields. Activating a research module on this type of anomaly would produce Electromagnetic Physics Datacores. These would have EM AoE damage

A Sun Spot:
Sun spots would allow you to gather Nuclear Physics datacores. They would have a thermal AoE damage

An Imminant CME (Coronal Mass Ejection)
These would allow the gathering of Plasma Physics datacores. Thw area would produce explosive AoE damage

Now, other types of research sites:
Highly Unstable Wormhole (non traversable) - Kinetic and EM AoE damage

Event Horizon Anomaly (centre of wormhole):
Research of this would produce Quantum Physics Datacores

Gravitation Anomaly (in the wormholes "rings"):
Study of this would produce Graviton Physics datacores

The other datacores would have other sites. All found through probes.

The ship line that would do this would be the SoCT ship line. They have flat resistance profiles allowing them to spec tank easily. They are the "Teaching" faction so it fits that they would do research.



What I'm suggesting is that it shouldn't be a passive production but an actual activity in space, in a ship, at extremely visually cool sites with some danger to them. Be that area of effect damage for some sites and NPC rats at others. They can also be scaled easily for system sec status. Lower sec status gives anomalies that produce more datacores per cycle of the research module.


Sounds like a 'mini-game' to me. Sad



That's still better than no gameplay at all.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#93 - 2015-04-01 14:38:46 UTC
Lurifax wrote:
The passive income from the datacores is bad. We dont need passive income. Remove the agents and please no can that will give you free data cores. The data sites are bad enough as it is.

So, where would datacores come from then if you removed the old method and not add a new one? Are you proposing they only come from the LP store?

Also, industry pretty much IS about passive income as far as my view of it goes. Sure mining the resources yourself is active, and you need to set jobs and market orders, but everything beyond that happens in the background whether you are there or not.

Moon goo and PI are also passive. You occasionally move stuff around, but the resources are collected in the background once everything's been set up properly, and there's nothing wrong with passive income, it just shouldn't be worth as much as active income.


Also if you are saying passive income is bad, then how are data sites bad when they require you to actively search for and interact with? The only real problem is they don't really give a good number of datacores.
Kate Ragnarok
Git R Done Resources
#94 - 2015-04-01 17:01:55 UTC
I think the idea of research platform being able to attract data and relic sites to a system is pretty cool.

Also make a new type of site that just spawns data cores. Have a signal on the platform to attract a certain faction for the data spawns. Be able to change the signal when you want a different races data cores. If the structure is not used then the signal goes offline.

This creates new opportunities for people to have structures and also for people to ninja stuff as well.

This would work good with the new trade hubs.

Example. Corp puts up a research structure and a trading hub. The corp does not as a rule want to do data sites they just want to mine. They put the highest buy orders at their trade hub and people scan sites and sell the data cores to the corp. This way they create jobs for new pilots and old to make isk in corp or alliance level no matter what the sec status. Also they can use the billboards to advertise the price for data cores in system for people to sell them as well.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#95 - 2015-04-01 23:28:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Data cores totally should be produced. They are just data stores. You don't need to research new theories 50000 times to produce exactly the same T2 item every time. Once you have done it once, that's it. Then it's just using the knowledge.
What someone posted earlier about datacores being cybernetic libraries that burn out after use sounds the best lore direction to go with them.

So yes, lets keep the 'passive' ability (Of a structure at risk in space) to make datacores, because it actually makes sense.
And lets not make it a mini game of 'hunt the datacore' because that just sounds & feels silly.

Alternatively, lets make it a BPO, might even be a non tradable BPO. That you have to 'research' yourself. Then once done you can build them and sell the cores or use them. That might be even more intuitive.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#96 - 2015-04-02 06:49:38 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Data cores totally should be produced. They are just data stores. You don't need to research new theories 50000 times to produce exactly the same T2 item every time. Once you have done it once, that's it. Then it's just using the knowledge.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/invention.jpg]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/invention.jpg

Quote:

What someone posted earlier about datacores being cybernetic libraries that burn out after use sounds the best lore direction to go with them.
Well the reasoning behind limited runs on BPCs as far as I am aware is DRM
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#97 - 2015-04-02 11:05:00 UTC
Sure, the 'invention' might not work, but the datacore isn't the act on inventing, it's just the library you use for reference while 'inventing'.
Webster Carr
Carr Consolidated Corporation
#98 - 2015-04-02 13:01:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Webster Carr
I still say keep the Research Agents a source of data cores.

As an alternate source you could build a Research Structure and put a 'DATA CORE Research Lab' in one of it's structure slots. You then set that lab to work in the same manner as you would an NPC research agent. Data cores that the lab produces are stored in your personal hangar on the structure (like a POCO). You then swing by on a regular basis and collect data cores in a method similar to the current Research Agent process or somewhat like PI production.

Perhaps the structure DATA CORE lab could even could use an amount of simple P2 PI as input, differing based upon the data core desired: Mechanical Engineering uses Mechanical Parts, Electronic Engineering uses Miniature Electronics, Nanite Engineering uses well Nanites... In other words it works like industry or research, with the number of Data Cores Job slots being determined by your Research Project Management skill.

In essence you could use a NPC agent or your own Research Lab or a combination of the two to a limit of determined by your Research Project Management skill.

Just like current BPO research you have the option to use a research lab at an NPC station or build your own... Simple and intuitive, and follows existing in game methods. (Of course the production of DATA CORES by the lab would be greater than that of Research Agents.)

In my opinion the sandbox is enhanced by having multiple routes to the same goal.

-Web
Lienzo
Amanuensis
#99 - 2015-04-03 17:28:01 UTC
These will not replace the functionality of stations unless there is some way to boost the sensor strength of the structures. Ideally, it would be a system effect so as to encourage players to actually defend the system rather than rely on mechanics self-contained to the structure.

In addition, lowsec systems need mechanics which both allow and disallow discovery of these structures, or different structures. Incorporation of the hacking system may help to create delays and player escalations. An alternative is the requirement for attackers to have their own hostile structures operating in the system or constellation.

No matter the level of mechanic protection, they will remain vulnerable to spies.
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2015-04-04 22:00:55 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=414184&p=3
I like the idea!
In the current system you can have research and manifacturing in the same location.
If those can not be done at the same place with the same or more bonuses then the number of structures in space will be quite higher .
Everyone wanting datacores will also have an extra structure.
Since people who want to have control of the entire manifacturing process will need to have more then 1.
While it will increase risk by moving stuff, that will also increase the number of structures in space quite a bit.
Maybe untill the servers are stressed.

Would datacore be able to be siphoned in null, low, w-space?

No local in null sec would fix everything!