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Marauders: Golem Bonus Adjustment
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unidenify
Deaf Armada
#61 - 2015-03-26 23:02:38 UTC  |  Edited by: unidenify
Sobaan Tali wrote:
unidenify wrote:
It is my opinion that TP bonus should stay on, but may including bonus to TP optimal/fallout range for cruise missile.

But I have no experience with pvp, so I have no idea what impact it can occur

Really, in my view, Golem was meaning to be Torp boat, such that Golem get strong TP to support torp damage application.


My thoughts exactly. The old Golems use to be torp boats, and to some extent they still are. I'd be using torps right now, but they are far too **** poor in performance compared to cruises.

I just wish people would stop using Javelins to argue range so damn much, like that's a missile I should be happy with having to use. Yes, the range looks good (well, better than rage and faction torps), but not only is the application worse that cruise rage, you do less damage. Talk about torpedo rage and the damage goes up ~250 dps, but the application ***** even more and you can't even push 40km bastion off or 50km bastion on even with 6% imps and range rigs. Faction torps can give you another ten klicks, with better application, but it'll cost much more to use that t2 ammo. The fact that cruises can already one to two-shot pretty much anything besides battleships WITHOUT range even being a factor at all and with one to two less target painters kindo of kills it for me on torpedoes.

Plus, CCP took away the big ass shock wave effects long ago. No, they didn't behave like they should in real space, but they looked sexier than sin and to hell with real physics in Eve anyways.

Sorry, rant over.


there are legitimate issues involved when compare between torp and Cruise missile

1. fitting issue - why torp launcher take more CPU/PG over cruise launcher
2. poor damage application - HAM vs Heavy, Rocket vs Light have clear difference, Not for Torp vs Cruise.
3. weight between dps and range. when you have long range weapon that can apply 950 dps from 0km to 200km, have 1/6 range for 35% gain on paper dps don't look good deal (remember, paper dps =/= realistic dps)


I will add that I doubt that buff torp by add more damage would help And I believe that one of idea to improve torp is buff its range, and make it perform better than cruise missile in damage application.

But then we will have issue with stealth bombers simple solution is nerf stealth bomber when buff torp. Not first time CCP make a lot of change over several ships for single weapon. Just look at Citadel missile change.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#62 - 2015-03-31 10:00:34 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Meh. If you want to snipe at 200+km then use a gunboat with T2 long range ammo. There's no reason to nerf the Golem just to support a 200+km edge case.


'edge case' = an entire weapon system the golem can use, and use very effectively.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#63 - 2015-03-31 10:16:59 UTC
the golem is one of the strongest murders outside of PvE with its RHML


and this change would only make it more so

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#64 - 2015-03-31 10:30:36 UTC
Leave my Target painter alone!

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2015-03-31 13:24:41 UTC
Cruise missiles and torpedoes are overpowered, we just don't realize it because the Raven only has 6 launcher hardpoints. But with only 6 launchers it can easily hang with the big boys and act as a siege ship. And that saves powergrid for other things, not to mention it frees up a high slot that was later moved down lower. Now like the Megathron it has top-end damage while also having impressive tank, but unlike the Megathron, the Raven can hit stuff from REALLY far away with cruise missiles.

I don't think I even have to mention how incredibly high torpedo DPS is, once you manage to close in close enough to hit, and you have your target webbed and painted.


What's my point here? Golem gets effectively 8 launchers. That's essentially equivalent to a rate of fire bonus being added to the Raven. Now I'll agree that the current Golem is by no means underpowered, but I do feel it should have a proper damage bonus, and large missiles should be brought to reasonable values (give torpedoes more range, for one), and then the Raven should fit 7 launchers.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#66 - 2015-03-31 13:32:25 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
What's my point here? Golem gets effectively 8 launchers. That's essentially equivalent to a rate of fire bonus being added to the Raven. Now I'll agree that the current Golem is by no means underpowered, but I do feel it should have a proper damage bonus, and large missiles should be brought to reasonable values (give torpedoes more range, for one), and then the Raven should fit 7 launchers.

I'm not sure that torpedoes need to have their damage buffed so much as the damage application (they need a smaller explosion radius). With respect to the damage increase you propose, if you give the Raven 7 launchers it effectively gives it 9.33 launchers with its ROF bonus. Compare that to the Golem (8), Navy Raven (8), Typhoon Fleet (8.25) and Barghest (8.75). There's also the issue that any damage buff also makes stealth bombers a lot more powerful as well.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#67 - 2015-03-31 13:45:32 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
In order to one shot all non-elite NPC cruisers, I need 4 PWNAGE TPs, 2 Rigor Is, cruise missile skill at 5/4 and relevant missile support skills at V.

Just getting back to this topic and noticed this from page 3.
Pardon me but you sir need to re-think your fit and more importantly the ammo you choose to use.
With only 2 "PWNAGE" target painters and 2 rigors cats I can one shot everything in every lvl 4 mission I have ever run with my Golem but the BS and a few of the elite frigs. With 4 TP I can one shot every thing but the BS.