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New POS's
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Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#21 - 2015-03-30 00:37:32 UTC
The other way I am looking at this is the time and effort required (and, because earning ISK in the game requires time and effort, this equates to ISK).

If we assume the current POSs costs will carry over (plus or minus) into the new POSs, a large POS which is fully set up with 8 capital-ish sized guns, structure rigs (probably equivalent to capital rigs), ship bays to go in the bay slots, blah blah, will set you back a good 750-1000M ISK. So llet's say you have no ears and ego, you spent 10 hours grinding Incursions to afford this. 10 hours work.

You put 3 billion worth of ships into it. 30 hours work.

You have 250M in fuel. Another 25 hours work.

Random crap, let's say another 5 hours.

What are we up to, 80 hours work? At 4 hour's a night MMO addict lite that's 3 weeks of work for one gamer to afford.

Ten minutes to RF.

Yep. That's sensible.

Oddly enough, right now, a large POS with a decent fit (not a cray-cray fit) you'll need 10-20 guys who will take 3-6 hours to knock it out. Say at least 60-ish man-hours work. or someone has to invest a Dread, at 3-4 billion a pop, to knock it over in an hour. So i guess, from an effort in and effort out equation, guess what? The current system works. It forces people to put a lot of time, effort and ISK into their infrastructure, and people have to have time, effort and ISK to take it out.

Reduce this to one T1 cruiser or less with an entosis link, and there is no incentive to invest time and effort (and the reserves of thise which ISK represents) into structures because it's literally not worth it.

Like I said elsewhere, if your POS guns don't defend your structure, you'd be better off not putting them on and saving yourself the ISK. The number of times people attack actively defended POSs with multiple POS gunners, that I've seen, is very minimal. Forcing guns to only work while manned not only renders the investment void, but implies that POSs are undefendable.

keep up the good work, CCP. Your logic and the game theory underlying this entosis game play is as impeccable as the Sarcasm-Fu I am using undetectably right now.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Pissfat
Tactically Challenged
The Initiative.
#22 - 2015-03-30 06:24:58 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
The other way I am looking at this is the time and effort required (and, because earning ISK in the game requires time and effort, this equates to ISK).

If we assume the current POSs costs will carry over (plus or minus) into the new POSs, a large POS which is fully set up with 8 capital-ish sized guns, structure rigs (probably equivalent to capital rigs), ship bays to go in the bay slots, blah blah, will set you back a good 750-1000M ISK. So llet's say you have no ears and ego, you spent 10 hours grinding Incursions to afford this. 10 hours work.

You put 3 billion worth of ships into it. 30 hours work.

You have 250M in fuel. Another 25 hours work.

Random crap, let's say another 5 hours.

What are we up to, 80 hours work? At 4 hour's a night MMO addict lite that's 3 weeks of work for one gamer to afford.

Ten minutes to RF.

Yep. That's sensible.

Oddly enough, right now, a large POS with a decent fit (not a cray-cray fit) you'll need 10-20 guys who will take 3-6 hours to knock it out. Say at least 60-ish man-hours work. or someone has to invest a Dread, at 3-4 billion a pop, to knock it over in an hour. So i guess, from an effort in and effort out equation, guess what? The current system works. It forces people to put a lot of time, effort and ISK into their infrastructure, and people have to have time, effort and ISK to take it out.

Reduce this to one T1 cruiser or less with an entosis link, and there is no incentive to invest time and effort (and the reserves of thise which ISK represents) into structures because it's literally not worth it.

Like I said elsewhere, if your POS guns don't defend your structure, you'd be better off not putting them on and saving yourself the ISK. The number of times people attack actively defended POSs with multiple POS gunners, that I've seen, is very minimal. Forcing guns to only work while manned not only renders the investment void, but implies that POSs are undefendable.

keep up the good work, CCP. Your logic and the game theory underlying this entosis game play is as impeccable as the Sarcasm-Fu I am using undetectably right now.


This guy gets it.

Although i will pick you up on your hour/ISK ratio if you put a 1B value to 10 hours how did your 250m of fuel get to 25 hours? But i am just nitpicking now m8. <3

I am Winthorp you might remember me from such films as i got CCP to make signature ID's persistent through DT for their love of AU bros.
Newt BlackCompany
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2015-03-30 07:11:57 UTC
There's some good points here, but I'd rather not panic just yet.

CCP often comes up with ideas that are very cool, but not quite practical yet. There's clearly some bugs with the ideas that'll take some sorting.

The lack of a shield is sad. I like my pos shield, and I like that I can keep cans full of ore and ships inside the shield without decaying.
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#24 - 2015-03-31 01:32:49 UTC
New WH game is going to be a POS for everyone, with no mods because why bother, and when it gets blowed up because RL got in the way for a day or 2 you will warp around with a loaner-Indy and pick up your gnome-cans, deploy a new wet cardboard space rock-with-tiedowns and repeat. Lol
Alundil
Rolled Out
#25 - 2015-03-31 03:20:45 UTC
HTC NecoSino wrote:
It's really easy guys. If these changes come into effect and do affect WH space, move to NS, take over a station.
Live there, upgrade your system for maximum WH connections.

Roam/Farm out of your NS "hive" system.

Be sad that CCP won, but happy that we still have our gameplay intact.

Chitsa? Is that you? You've got a new look....


:)

I'm right behind you
Alundil
Rolled Out
#26 - 2015-03-31 03:24:28 UTC
Pissfat wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
The other way I am looking at this is the time and effort required (and, because earning ISK in the game requires time and effort, this equates to ISK).

If we assume the current POSs costs will carry over (plus or minus) into the new POSs, a large POS which is fully set up with 8 capital-ish sized guns, structure rigs (probably equivalent to capital rigs), ship bays to go in the bay slots, blah blah, will set you back a good 750-1000M ISK. So llet's say you have no ears and ego, you spent 10 hours grinding Incursions to afford this. 10 hours work.

You put 3 billion worth of ships into it. 30 hours work.

You have 250M in fuel. Another 25 hours work.

Random crap, let's say another 5 hours.

What are we up to, 80 hours work? At 4 hour's a night MMO addict lite that's 3 weeks of work for one gamer to afford.

Ten minutes to RF.

Yep. That's sensible.

Oddly enough, right now, a large POS with a decent fit (not a cray-cray fit) you'll need 10-20 guys who will take 3-6 hours to knock it out. Say at least 60-ish man-hours work. or someone has to invest a Dread, at 3-4 billion a pop, to knock it over in an hour. So i guess, from an effort in and effort out equation, guess what? The current system works. It forces people to put a lot of time, effort and ISK into their infrastructure, and people have to have time, effort and ISK to take it out.

Reduce this to one T1 cruiser or less with an entosis link, and there is no incentive to invest time and effort (and the reserves of thise which ISK represents) into structures because it's literally not worth it.

Like I said elsewhere, if your POS guns don't defend your structure, you'd be better off not putting them on and saving yourself the ISK. The number of times people attack actively defended POSs with multiple POS gunners, that I've seen, is very minimal. Forcing guns to only work while manned not only renders the investment void, but implies that POSs are undefendable.

keep up the good work, CCP. Your logic and the game theory underlying this entosis game play is as impeccable as the Sarcasm-Fu I am using undetectably right now.


This guy gets it.

Although i will pick you up on your hour/ISK ratio if you put a 1B value to 10 hours how did your 250m of fuel get to 25 hours? But i am just nitpicking now m8. <3

Quibbles over math (it's hard) aside that value proposition of the new structures would have to be at least equal to the new/replacement system.

I'm right behind you
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