Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So players that are, assuming they take time to train some core skills, several months old... (Definitely outside the purview of CCP's 15-day new-player presentation at Fanfest.) Cool.

Now... what activities are these players engaging in, in highsec, that you consider too lucrative for the risk involved?

I ask because I do believe that it's important to move players out of highsec. IMO it's highsec that promotes solo play - I don't believe NPC corps have anything to do with solo play. I'm a null denizen, so personally I wouldn't be upset by a highsec income nerf. I do think highsec is important for trading and shipping, though. The EVE economy is vital for the operation of the game, IMO, and the free production and movement of goods is vital for the economy. So manufacturing, market manipulation, and freighting? All important aspects of highsec that need to be preserved. Good for staging in systems with a null or low gate, too. But mining, ratting, Incursions, exploration and missioning? Meh. Can go away in highsec, IMO. (Except low-levels of such activity in constellations with a starter system.) This would eliminate the ability for the "level my Raven" players to actually do such an activity - they might quit, but they do that anyway, or they might end up joining a group, for protection, in order to move into null/low, and become another hooked player. (And really, after a long time of high occupancy by lots and lots of people, it would make sense from a lore standpoint that natural resources like asteroids are all mined out in highsec, and pirates don't venture into the space. Criminals, yes, but not Spers or Guristas or similar.)

Move to null and pay rent to risk averse F1 monkeys......no ty.

If isk is what you seek then leave the safety of the blob and explore the rest of null. Or stay in the blob with your tail between your legs saying you cant earn isk because 90% of the blob is doing the same thing as you.

But thats the thing...I don't have to im in a npc corp

Very true but I do that already its called the Scope Project

ALL HAIL !!

You do not have the right to choose what other players do for fun in this game. If they want to "paddle around the shawllow end" that is their choice to make.

Who says playing in high sec is boring?
On my first character I launched into the whole low and nul is where it is at theory and I was absolutely miserable and nearly quit. Then I got smart and started another character and have been happily "paddling around the shallow end" for more than 5 years and see no reason to stop now.

I personally know dozens that happily sit in ore belts for hours at a time mining. Yea hate that myself but this is about them not you and me.
I know dozens that gather together to run missions as a tool to help teach fleet tactics to the new players headed for their low sec group, everyone has a great time and some people even learn a thing or two.

I have a group of low sec players that routinely join me in high sec mission runs for many reasons the primary being standings boosts and the fact that we are all real life friends separated across multiple continents and this game is the easiest way to gather and do things together.

Personally the most fun I have ever had in this game is doing what I do right now and to be honest I could not do it as effectively as I do anywhere but high sec.

The same low sec groups that I mission with send me new players with a list of skills both character and personal that need to trained and I get the privileged to do that. It gives me great enjoyment to see their wonder as they start to experience what EvE is and can be, and even more enjoyment when they have completed their time with me and I get to see them finally achieve a game play style they have been working towards. But you can do all this in low or nul and you are correct it can be done there however as a group we have found high sec to be a better training ground for the initial parts of this training. Why? because in high sec we are reasonably free to concentrate on skills to be learned instead of watching local and d-scan for potential problems. Yes you are correct and using the d-scan is one of those things we work on, but in high sec it is not a required part of staying safe it simply becomes another tool to learn how to use. And no I do not send out fully trained players, there are many aspects of life in low/nul that I simply cannot prepare them for since it is impracticable or impossible in high sec.

And so after giving a brief about how you can have tremendous amounts of fun in high or be terribly bored in low/nul we get back to where I started. You and I, in fact no one has the right to tell people what they should be doing in this game for fun, and no one but CCP has the right to limit their options. We all play this game for fun, we all pay for that in some way, and we ALL get to choose what we do.

I think the term you're looking for here is "risk averse". Most high-sec players realize that low-sec is rigged, and that the only content to be found there are the tears most low-sec players are after. Corporate WarDecs, station games, duels, can flipping, miner bumping and ganking are all a form of legalized harassment because there aren't a lot of players (or content) in low-sec other than Faction Warfare and gate camping. Hence why we repeatedly see calls for the elimination or restriction on high-sec NPC corporations to ensure the area with the largest player base can be further exploited.

You can't change how NPC corporations work without also first making changes to high-sec WarDec mechanics, duals and other aspects of player interaction.

Realistically, everyone wants to be a mercenary, and hardly anyone is. Some part of that is lack of AR/AP tools for corporations, and good fleet logging option tools for FCs. A bigger part is that players will line up for any content, instead of finding themselves choosing between opportunities for content. Encounters between players is decidedly uncommon in the context of the vast population of them.

If players were making such choices, corps would have to incentivize their content over other content, and it would probably involve some model that involved taking and protecting assets, but also making that financially worthwhile to their members. As is, groups of players have to put in long hours to find interaction with other groups of players.

Economically, we have instead this bottom up model of financing, whereby isolated individual activity involving npcs and avoiding other players dominates all forms of funding for organizations. The logic behind that is to bootstrap players quickly, but at the cost of goals. We also have unscheduled pvp mainly happening during travel or load-in points, with the overall arc of engagement aimed at dis-incentivizing most forms of activity. This results in a mostly dead universe, with the freedom to go anywhere and no reason to bother doing so.

Realistically, the only way to get people to work together more is to either make pve look more like pvp, or make pvp look more like pve. That would mean new structures, more farms and fields, more peripheries for fast paced sov activity, faster factories for ship replacement, new corporate deadspace environments in hisec, losec, null and WHs. Perhaps having limitations to hoarding without risked assets, or constant inflation would provide the stick for players to be more active.

Getting people into corps is just an euphemism for getting people to undock. Corps are just supposed to represent new opportunities for players. Even the things we do have are often just not used in the intended manner. Few major corps let their line members do anything with POS, corp hangars, anchoring structures, or most anything else that makes being in a corporation worthwhile. Not even HERO bucks the trend in that regard. In most such organizations, players that attempt to expand their options tend to get accused of poaching, or other such autistic sensibilities.

Which we truly appreciate. And it's not a coincidence (I suspect you were the first vote choice for many of us).

So what is the point your are trying to make here?
All players stay in their comfort zone not just those in high sec. All you need to do to understand that is go read through the "I hate Jump Fatigue" threads. Read all the complaints about how they are spending huge amounts of time waiting out jump fatigue instead of playing the game. There are only 2 reasons that is an issue, 1. poor planning on the part of alliance/corp leaders or FC's 2. living deep in your alliances held territory where it is just as comfortable and safe as high sec.

Easy there snippy doodles. I put what I would call a minor wall of text. Just taking a one liner out of context kind of hurts my feelings.