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Sidewinder: Rattlesnake Redux

Author
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1 - 2015-03-28 12:33:45 UTC
Having extensively played around with a number of L4 mission ships and fits, I've settled on a variation of the Rattlesnake I call the Sidewinder. The stats on this are absolutely insane, and you can easily make upwards of 50m ISK an hour in high-sec virtually risk-free (certainly gank-free). The main criteria behind this design was ensuring that it was fun to fly, didn't require reconfiguration between missions, light on micromanagement and fairly forgiving.

Damage: 646 missiles + 579-770 drones = 1225-1416 DPS
Range: 93.8km targeting, 148km missiles, 84-88km drones
Speed: 118m/s base, 855m/s MWD, 2.82 AU/s (3.56 AU/s Mid-grade Ascendancy)
Defense: 76.1k EHP (60-68-76-60), 174.1 DPS omni tank (cap stable)

5x Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno/Scourge Cruise Missiles*
Drone Link Augmentor II, 1x Gecko, 2x Warden II, 2x Curator II, 5x Salvage Drone I

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Large Micro Jump Drive
Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Gistum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Gistum C-Type Thermic Dissipation Amplifier
Gistum C-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Omnidirectional Tracking Link (optimal range and tracking speed script)**

3x Ballistic Control System II
3x Drone Damage Amplifier II

2x Large Hyperspace Velocity Optimizer I
1x Large Processor Overclocking Unit
1x 'Packrat' Mobile Tractor Unit***
2x Mobile Tractor Unit

* You can achieve more raw DPS with Fury missiles, but even with +5 implants you still need to run a target painter to apply maximum damage to battleships. With Faction missiles, you apply 100% damage to battleships and battlecruisers which frees up a mid slot. This also reduces the types of missiles you need to carry and subsequently frees up more cargo space for salvage.
** With a tracking speed script Geckos will absolutely murder frigates. Switch to optimal range for Sentries.
*** The 'Packrat' MTU is worth the extra ISK for stand-alone missions and storylines as it has a 25% speed boost. The other 2 standard Mobile Tractor Units are so you can drop these in mission rooms, bookmark and return later (I just use a nano-Badger with a shield tank and Hyperspacial rigs for fast collection).

First and foremost, this fit is cap stable. It means that with the exception of the MWD, you can run everything non-stop and still have plenty of capacitor for both the MJD and MWD. It's also incredibly simple, requiring the activation of only 2 modules upon entry to a mission. Second, this thing both blitzes and salvages missions fast. Really fast. 2.82 AU/s not only gets you between stargates and missions quicker, but increases both your acceleration and deceleration time when using accelerator gates (this allows you to start locking targets faster). The MWD is perfect for getting around between gates, and the MJD is utilized to get certain mission objectives or as your "get-out-of-jail-free" card (since NPCs don't scram). Third, it has an obscene amount of DPS. Over 1600 DPS with maximum skills and implants. And this isn't just 'paper' DPS, but real applied DPS. This is without target painters, webs or rigors. The tank is fairly light on the Sidewinder as your ability to project DPS out to 90km is your tank.

This is a cheap fit, and will run you around 600m ISK (consider that the Rattlesnake itself is around 380m ISK). With a 70k+ EHP tank and less than 240m ISK in actual modules that can drop, this fit is anti-gank (it would take a half dozen Tornados to alpha it, and thus not cost-effective). On the higher end of the scale, and depending on how many damage modules you want to upgrade to Faction (which saves a lot of CPU) - you can get the DPS to well over 1600 and a warp speed of 4.65 AU/s!

The Sidewinder is most effective when utilized as follows:

• Angel Cartel: Gecko, Scourge missiles, tracking speed script
• Blood Raiders, EOM, Rogue Drones, Sansha: Curators, Inferno missiles, optimal range script
• Guristas: Wardens, Scourge missiles, no drone script
• Mercenary: Wardens, Scourge missiles, tracking speed script
• Serpentis: Wardens, Scourge missiles, tracking speed script

Use your Sentries to snipe frigates and cruisers, and cruise missiles for battleships then battlecruisers. Any frigates that close to less than 25km ignore for later (you always have the MJD in a pinch). To finish any frigates off deploy a Gecko and switch to a tracking speed script to absolutely murder frigates. If you get swarmed and your tank starts to take a beating, MJD out and redeploy. It's rare that you'll find yourself in this scenario, but it's always good to have options.

Depending on what Faction you run L4s for, you can substitute Bouncers or Gardes. Just bear in-mind that Bouncers are most effective against Angel NPCs and Garde against Federation Navy NPCs. Gardes will also fall well short of your maximum drone range, and the 'paper' DPS is only realized at short ranges. You can also substitute a flight of Hobgoblins or Warriors instead of the salvage drones.

Final thoughts. The entire Sidewinder fit will run you less than any Pirate, Faction or Marauder hull (just the hull, never mind fitting it out...). It will deliver anywhere from upwards of 50% more applied DPS than any other mission ship, and with the sole exception of the Machariel - is the fastest in this configuration. It's the only ship that has native resists, 7 mid-slots and a passive shield tank (the Barghest comes close, but still lags behind in tank and damage application). It can deal with any NPC at almost 100% effectiveness with a combination of drones and 2 missile types. In terms of actual L4 mission performance, it will complete these in less than half the time of any other ship.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Nycha
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2015-03-28 14:07:56 UTC
Some minor things:
As you already mentioned even with perfect skills the tank is paper thin. You rely on the mjd to survive which means anything which can hit you long range will be a prob. I remember that guristas forced me to warp out a month ago and my setup is overtanked with over 100km range. It surprised me.
As youre totally dependant on the mjd the 80km drone control range hurts as it limits the direction of your mjd jump or it forces you to use the mwd to reposition, which is slow, or you have to use your drones later than your missiles which is some giant dps loss.
I would use hobbos instead of the salvage drones. Youre anyway salvaging with another ship, so the 5 salvage drones dont do much, but no lights makes it way harder vs frigs.

stoicfaux
#3 - 2015-03-28 14:30:10 UTC
Questions/Criticisms:
Can you post your mission times? I find the words blitz, using LMJD to range tank, and 3 minute cooldown on LMJD to be a contradiction.

Would it kill you to post in EFT format? X

50M/hour. Does this include isk, LP conversion (what rate?), salvage, and/or loot?

50M/hour isn't anything to write home about, but since this is a relatively cheap level 4 runner (~600M according to EFT,) is lazy to operate and is gank-resistant; those could be mitigating factors. OTOH, you can blitz level 3s in a much cheaper Ishtar for ~50m/hour (at 2,000 isk/lp) or get more than 50M/hour in a tad cheaper t2 fit Level 3 Mach (at 2,000 isk/lp.)

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2015-03-28 15:26:31 UTC
I'm not sure this was worthy of it's own thread? It's not exactly the most original idea, build or application of either
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-03-28 15:41:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaari Inkuran
Arthur, why. You were more on the right track with the fit you posted here: http://eve-search.com/thread/409765-1/page/1
Except for the Geckos. And the DLA and the MJD. Yuck.
Edit: and the FoF missiles
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#6 - 2015-03-28 15:54:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Nycha wrote:
Some minor things: As you already mentioned even with perfect skills the tank is paper thin. You rely on the mjd to survive which means anything which can hit you long range will be a prob. I remember that guristas forced me to warp out a month ago and my setup is overtanked with over 100km range. It surprised me.
As youre totally dependant on the mjd the 80km drone control range hurts as it limits the direction of your mjd jump or it forces you to use the mwd to reposition, which is slow, or you have to use your drones later than your missiles which is some giant dps loss.
I would use hobbos instead of the salvage drones. Youre anyway salvaging with another ship, so the 5 salvage drones dont do much, but no lights makes it way harder vs frigs.

The MJD is included in the setup because it's fairly invaluable for newer players, ensuring that you can always get out of scenarios where you make a mistake or take too much aggro. I honestly don't use it that much for range positioning, because I can usually get away with a short burst from the MWD. The only long-range damage types you really have to worry about are EM and Kinetic cruise missiles, so it's easy enough to substitute another Gistum C-Type EM or Kinetic amplifier instead of the MJD. A tracking speed script allows the Gecko to absolutely murder frigates (I can't emphasize this enough). The salvage drones are for stand-alone or storyline missions where there is only one room, but can easily be substituted for a flight of light drones.

stoicfaux wrote:
Questions/Criticisms: Can you post your mission times? I find the words blitz, using LMJD to range tank, and 3 minute cooldown on LMJD to be a contradiction. Would it kill you to post in EFT format? X] 50M/hour. Does this include isk, LP conversion (what rate?), salvage, and/or loot? 50M/hour isn't anything to write home about, but since this is a relatively cheap level 4 runner (~600M according to EFT,) is lazy to operate and is gank-resistant; those could be mitigating factors. OTOH, you can blitz level 3s in a much cheaper Ishtar for ~50m/hour (at 2,000 isk/lp) or get more than 50M/hour in a tad cheaper t2 fit Level 3 Mach (at 2,000 isk/lp.)

On average about, between 15-20 minutes (excluding some of the really easy missions like Cargo, Recon, Duo, Anomaly, etc.) which I can usually complete in under 5 minutes including flight time. I'm Mac-based, so no EFT (I think pyfa has an EFT export, but I've never played around with it). Yes, 50m is all-inclusive - which is based on standard Faction (non-SOE) 0.8-1.0 L4 agents and using a Faction LP-ISK conversion rate of around 50%. Running 0.5 L4 agents or SoE missions will increase this. It doesn't include storyline income, so the 50m should be considered on the lower spectrum of realistic estimates. This also blitzes L3s quicker than either a Machariel or Ishtar.

Edit: 11min to complete "Infiltrated Outposts". This was destroying everything (not blitzing), including transit time.

Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Arthur, why. You were more on the right track with the fit you posted here: http://eve-search.com/thread/409765-1/page/1. Except for the Geckos. And the DLA and the MJD. Yuck. Edit: and the FoF missiles

What's wrong with the DLA? Your drone control range is limited to 60km maximum otherwise (guess I don't understand your comment). Geckos are awesome, don't knock 'em.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#7 - 2015-03-28 17:55:53 UTC
I think I found another rattlesnake salesman. lots of RS hype, no evidence. And I really doubt a RS will blitz lv3s faster than, well just about anything. Warp speed counts for a lot there.

in general if a mission takes over 5-10 mins I don't do it.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#8 - 2015-03-28 18:05:04 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I think I found another rattlesnake salesman. lots of RS hype, no evidence. And I really doubt a RS will blitz lv3s faster than, well just about anything. Warp speed counts for a lot there.

in general if a mission takes over 5-10 mins I don't do it.

Sorry to disappoint, but I have no vested interest in what you buy or fly. First and foremost, we're primarily talking about L4s - but you can just as easily use a Rattlesnake to blitz L3s (in that case I would switch the fit to rapid heavies). Second, there's tons of evidence that the Rattlesnake is an absolute beast for running L4s - but entirely your call if you choose to ignore it. As for whether missions are "worth it", if you're planning to loot and/or salvage, missions will typically take more than 5-10min. What's "worth it" for you is really personal preference.

The Rattlesnake fit I posted will pay for itself in 12 hours of missioning, and will earn 1.5-billion ISK per month spending only an hour a day flying it. That's more than enough to PLEX your account as well as pay for smaller PvP ships.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#9 - 2015-03-28 18:17:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Here's a L3 Rattlesnake blitzing fit. The target painter is to get quick aggro so you can initiate firing of the auto-targeting missiles, but also note that drones will typically auto-attack any target you paint. This will do 1126 dps out to 88km with V skills, before implants or overheating. With rapid heavies you want more velocity as opposed to better damage application, as you'll lose more DPS to lost volleys. The Pithum C-Type Large Shield Booster is probably overkill. Total cost is approximately 480m ISK - less than a Machariel hull.

5x Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno/Scourte auto-targeting missiles
Drone Link Augmentor II
2x Warden II, 2x Bouncer II, 2x Curator II, 5x Hobgoblin II

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Pithum C-Type Large Shield Booster
EM Ward Amplifier II
2x Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array

2x Ballistic Control System II
2x Drone Damage Amplifier II
2x Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer

3x Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

stoicfaux
#10 - 2015-03-28 20:03:06 UTC
Travel time is a big deal. A 5.18 AU/s mach blitzing level 3s: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=345580

Average Total Mission Time: 3m29s
Average Travel Time 1m:33s 44.79%
Average In Mission Time 1m55s 55.21%

Plus in my experience with sentry drones blitzing level 3s, sentry drones pretty much suck due to overkill, immobility, and the time it takes for them to switch to and lock a new target. The MWD speed of the Rattlesnake is sub-par as well for level 3s.


To get back on Level 4s, the reason why a Rattlesnake is faster than say a Vargur, is due to the high applied DPS that a min-maxed Rattlesnake can produce. But that's more about killing everything in the mission and less about blitzing.

(But if you need a relatively cheap level 4 mission ship, a Rattlesnake is a valid choice.)

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#11 - 2015-03-28 23:41:14 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
To get back on Level 4s, the reason why a Rattlesnake is faster than say a Vargur, is due to the high applied DPS that a min-maxed Rattlesnake can produce. But that's more about killing everything in the mission and less about blitzing.

I agree. And if your goal is looting and salvage, you're probably shooting everything anyway to maximize this.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.