These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

ICE Mining ruined by spawn changes, multiboxers and farmers?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#81 - 2015-03-26 19:31:08 UTC
Scira Crimson wrote:
1 person = 1 account = 1 character = maximum game integrety

Stick it in yer butt...
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2015-03-26 19:39:30 UTC
Go to Osmon, sometimes there are up to 3 ice anoms at the same time. And those pesky Code guys are running rampant.
Alexstrazaas
Doomheim
#83 - 2015-03-26 19:57:50 UTC
BrundleMeth wrote:
Scira Crimson wrote:
1 person = 1 account = 1 character = maximum game integrety

Stick it in yer butt...



let me guess you got 5 alts mining....
Korwin Abre-Kai
lichfield exploration and salvage
#84 - 2015-03-27 00:21:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Korwin Abre-Kai
Aphsala wrote:
mining does need changed, an changed in such a way that anyone who afk's does not profit


the fact is I prefer to be up against an AFK 10 boxer any day of the week as opposed to an ATK fleet running fully optimized cycles the former is harvesting far less ice than the latter period end of story.

quite frankly I just don't get the obsession some EVE players have with what other players may or may not be doing on their side of the client. if some one is AFK it can have NO negative effect on YOUR game play PERIOD in fact as I pointed out it is a boon as an AFK player cannot by definition react to what is going on in the game. I actually find it more than a little bit creepy that some EVE players seem to have this obsessive need to control the behavior of other people in the game , making moral judgments and ethical arguments because some one is using the freaking auto pilot mechanics(WTF?)or because a mining laser can auto cycle. I mean seriously??


how about this as a change to mining. make it totally passive just like PI and moon mining. maybe then we will see these and other tear threads on this subject vanish like a fart in the breeze god knows I have had my fill of the stench from them.

the truly sad part of this thread is that if the OP had asked one of the fleet operators he chose to antagonize for boost and joined in the fleet he would have been making as much off his account as the fleet commander was making off any one of his and also could have followed that fleet from belt to belt making far more as part of a fleet than he ever possibly could have on his own in that same amount of time even if he would have had that first belt all to his lonesome.(I know shocking idea actually teaming up with others in a multi player game but hay "other peoples kids" what can you say?)
Charles Muffins
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#85 - 2015-03-27 01:56:51 UTC
Mining is 100% broken. No one should be able to do the work of 20 players solo, and take all the profit for themselves. Shocked
Jason Xado
Doomheim
#86 - 2015-03-27 02:03:26 UTC
Charles Muffins wrote:
Mining is 100% broken. No one should be able to do the work of 20 players solo, and take all the profit for themselves. Shocked


Why?
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#87 - 2015-03-27 03:34:45 UTC
to the OP....

Seriously, get out of High Sec. Not only are the Null belts full of higher value ores of all types, they're largely untouched. The only major difference is that you need to keep an eye on things, especially while operating solo. Watch Local, watch your region's Intel Channels. Notice that there's a roaming gang two jumps away? Time to head to station. Neut enters local, burn for station. Choose your mining system carefully (eg: avoid pipes and try to mine away from border systems) and you should basically almost never be interrupted.

I'll let you in on a dirty little not-so-secret: Most minerals 'mined' in 0.0 are actually acquired from reprocessing Rat loot from anomalies.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Gerald Sphinx
Marauding Dragons
#88 - 2015-03-27 04:22:17 UTC
After reading this...

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=387571&find=unread

...I wonder. Have you reported the characters in question to CCP for possible input automation or multiplexing?

Quote:

Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing of actions with consequences in the EVE universe, are prohibited and will be policed in the same manner as Input Automation.

This includes, but isn’t limited to:

• Activation and control of ships and modules
• Navigation and movement within the EVE universe
• Movement of assets and items within the EVE universe
• Interaction with other characters

Examples of allowed Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing are actions taken that do not have an impact on the EVE universe and are carried out for convenience:

• EVE Online client settings
• Window positions and arrangements (of the EVE Online client in your operating system’s desktop environment)
• The login process


If the player in question is doing the above, you need to report them.

Pardon me if I'm repeating anything here as I don't have the time to read through 5 pages of posts right now.
Korwin Abre-Kai
lichfield exploration and salvage
#89 - 2015-03-27 05:51:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Korwin Abre-Kai
when i logged this evening the local ice belt was up and there were aprox 10 miners in the belt , according to the locals it had spawned at 1810 (2 hrs earlier) at 530 I have the belt to my self with 80 units left......... yeah ice belts are totally over crowded and its just not fair CCP PLZ ban multi boxing cause I cant find any ice Roll
Anonymous Forumposter
State War Academy
Caldari State
#90 - 2015-03-27 06:40:10 UTC
Lfod Shi wrote:
+1 for one player, one account.


LOLOLOlOLolOLROFLMAOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. This made me lol so hard xD Thank you for being so hilarious. I needed that.
Brutus Utama
State War Academy
Caldari State
#91 - 2015-03-27 08:55:25 UTC
Korwin Abre-Kai wrote:
when i logged this evening the local ice belt was up and there were aprox 10 miners in the belt , according to the locals it had spawned at 1810 (2 hrs earlier) at 530 I have the belt to my self with 80 units left......... yeah ice belts are totally over crowded and its just not fair CCP PLZ ban multi boxing cause I cant find any ice Roll


80 units isnt worth warping into belt for its what 15m isk? 10 minutes mining ores in null....

ice mining... move to solitude 2 belts and only the locals to bother you
Noragli
Doomheim
#92 - 2015-03-27 13:09:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Noragli
Gerald Sphinx wrote:
After reading this...

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=387571&find=unread

...I wonder. Have you reported the characters in question to CCP for possible input automation or multiplexing?

Quote:

Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing of actions with consequences in the EVE universe, are prohibited and will be policed in the same manner as Input Automation.

This includes, but isn’t limited to:

• Activation and control of ships and modules
• Navigation and movement within the EVE universe
• Movement of assets and items within the EVE universe
• Interaction with other characters

Examples of allowed Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing are actions taken that do not have an impact on the EVE universe and are carried out for convenience:

• EVE Online client settings
• Window positions and arrangements (of the EVE Online client in your operating system’s desktop environment)
• The login process


If the player in question is doing the above, you need to report them.

Pardon me if I'm repeating anything here as I don't have the time to read through 5 pages of posts right now.


Yes he apparently reported them, he was so certain he was right. However, it makes no difference if he reported them or not, they are not isboxing (I know this for a fact). Then this thread appeared.
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#93 - 2015-03-27 13:43:01 UTC
All you have to do is watch them like you appear to be doing in your contacts list. If they all log on within a few seconds of each other they are probably using third party software as it isn't physically possible to do this by hand.

If they use this same software to start their mining lasers up as well they are probably breaking the EULA as of January this year. A lot of these characters have been seriously butthurt by the decision but it is better for New Eden in the long run. A chart shown at Fanfest this year showed a massive drop in the ISBoxers after January 1st.

If the lasers all come on at the same time just report them all to CCP and they will do the rest. I have noticed a number of the ISBoxers local to my area are no longer running. We will get there in the end. Dependant on ships used you can be proactive and gank some of these multi-bot miners yourself as well. It doesn't take that much in terms of ISK cost and skills.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#94 - 2015-03-27 14:16:21 UTC
Korwin Abre-Kai wrote:
Aphsala wrote:
mining does need changed, an changed in such a way that anyone who afk's does not profit


the fact is I prefer to be up against an AFK 10 boxer any day of the week as opposed to an ATK fleet running fully optimized cycles the former is harvesting far less ice than the latter period end of story.

quite frankly I just don't get the obsession some EVE players have with what other players may or may not be doing on their side of the client. if some one is AFK it can have NO negative effect on YOUR game play PERIOD in fact as I pointed out it is a boon as an AFK player cannot by definition react to what is going on in the game. I actually find it more than a little bit creepy that some EVE players seem to have this obsessive need to control the behavior of other people in the game , making moral judgments and ethical arguments because some one is using the freaking auto pilot mechanics(WTF?)or because a mining laser can auto cycle. I mean seriously??


how about this as a change to mining. make it totally passive just like PI and moon mining. maybe then we will see these and other tear threads on this subject vanish like a fart in the breeze god knows I have had my fill of the stench from them.

the truly sad part of this thread is that if the OP had asked one of the fleet operators he chose to antagonize for boost and joined in the fleet he would have been making as much off his account as the fleet commander was making off any one of his and also could have followed that fleet from belt to belt making far more as part of a fleet than he ever possibly could have on his own in that same amount of time even if he would have had that first belt all to his lonesome.(I know shocking idea actually teaming up with others in a multi player game but hay "other peoples kids" what can you say?)


Holy crap. How can you possibly be that naive? Anyone that opens their fleet to a completely random person in this game is a fool and will eventually get their entire fleet destroyed.

The OP was complaining about an obvious multi-boxer using obviously banned means. And he is right. AFK resource gathering is a pox on the game. It is part of why, when CCP decided to change ice fields from static belts to anoms, so many of us said, "How is that any different than current mechanics? You're just making high-sec mining of high ends easier." and suggested making ice belts Cosmic Signatures. Instead CCP changed all grav sites to anoms on top of the ice belt changes.

Guess what happened? High end minerals, which are found more prevalently in those sites than in belts, are crashing. Zydrine is now worth less than Nocxium. According to Eve-Markets it is at a historical low. Literally never been this low.

If the OP thinks the characters he saw are multiplexing, then he should report them as such. There are pretty easy ways to tell if they are. One of them is to apply to their corp and find out for sure. Chat them up. Some botters are really dumb and most are extremely lazy (hence why they bot) and will readily admit it or point the player to whatever software he is using.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#95 - 2015-03-27 16:17:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Korwin Abre-Kai wrote:
...........
if some one is AFK it can have NO negative effect on YOUR game play PERIOD .........

Not neccarly true. It depends on what they would do if it was somehow impossible for them to be AFK. If the alternative is they would ATK, then yes, for mining, that is worse for me.

But if they could not be AFK, it might be their only alternative would be to not be on at all. Then there would be even more ore for me. Right now, if someone needs to get housework done, they could set up their mining fleet, go do a little housework, come back and adjust things, and so on. If it became impossible to mine AFK, they would still need to get that housework done, so what would not get done is the mining. Result: More ore for those that are ATK.

Whenever a change is proposed or make, you need to consider ALL the ways the players could change their behavior.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Kiandoshia
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2015-03-27 17:58:46 UTC
Alexstrazaas wrote:
Honestly they should make a Mini-game out of mining.

like controlling power lvls and settings, maybe aiming lazer.
Something that makes you feel like your mining, could even add a special view for it like planet management

could make it so that afk mining has a 66%(or more) less rate of mining to encourage active mining, of course they need to make it more interesting the same time.


but everyone agrees that mining needs work form the "afk alts/ bot fest" it is now that i know of at least.


That sounds like mining is going to be more effort than Ishtar ratting. Are we going to nuke automatic drone aggro next because it certainly is the more ridiculous of the two mechanics.
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2015-03-27 19:04:06 UTC
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
All you have to do is watch them like you appear to be doing in your contacts list. If they all log on within a few seconds of each other they are probably using third party software as it isn't physically possible to do this by hand.

If they use this same software to start their mining lasers up as well they are probably breaking the EULA as of January this year. A lot of these characters have been seriously butthurt by the decision but it is better for New Eden in the long run. A chart shown at Fanfest this year showed a massive drop in the ISBoxers after January 1st.

If the lasers all come on at the same time just report them all to CCP and they will do the rest. I have noticed a number of the ISBoxers local to my area are no longer running. We will get there in the end. Dependant on ships used you can be proactive and gank some of these multi-bot miners yourself as well. It doesn't take that much in terms of ISK cost and skills.


They are allowed to use isbox to login so that is not proof of anything. And if they tile their screen with all the logged in accounts they can turn the lasers on pretty quickly manually.
Korwin Abre-Kai
lichfield exploration and salvage
#98 - 2015-03-27 20:21:50 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Korwin Abre-Kai wrote:
...........
if some one is AFK it can have NO negative effect on YOUR game play PERIOD .........

Not neccarly true. It depends on what they would do if it was somehow impossible for them to be AFK. If the alternative is they would ATK, then yes, for mining, that is worse for me.

But if they could not be AFK, it might be their only alternative would be to not be on at all. Then there would be even more ore for me. Right now, if someone needs to get housework done, they could set up their mining fleet, go do a little housework, come back and adjust things, and so on. If it became impossible to mine AFK, they would still need to get that housework done, so what would not get done is the mining. Result: More ore for those that are ATK.

Whenever a change is proposed or make, you need to consider ALL the ways the players could change their behavior.



you can only harvest so much ore per hr period it makes no difference what so ever to your mining rate if the dude next to you is ATK or taking a dump period. when the belt gets used up all you need to do is move to the next if all the ore in a system gets used up move to the next (that is what jump gates are for)
ashley Eoner
#99 - 2015-03-27 20:30:59 UTC
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
All you have to do is watch them like you appear to be doing in your contacts list. If they all log on within a few seconds of each other they are probably using third party software as it isn't physically possible to do this by hand.

If they use this same software to start their mining lasers up as well they are probably breaking the EULA as of January this year. A lot of these characters have been seriously butthurt by the decision but it is better for New Eden in the long run. A chart shown at Fanfest this year showed a massive drop in the ISBoxers after January 1st.

If the lasers all come on at the same time just report them all to CCP and they will do the rest. I have noticed a number of the ISBoxers local to my area are no longer running. We will get there in the end. Dependant on ships used you can be proactive and gank some of these multi-bot miners yourself as well. It doesn't take that much in terms of ISK cost and skills.

In case anyone decides to be silly CCP has stated that you can use repeaters to log in. Using a repeater to set the mining lasers is an awful idea and none of the boxers I know ever did that. Having said that server ticks are pretty huge so I can get 5-8 characters to start shooting beams at the same time by just using eve in windowed mode.


That chart showed a MASSIVE drop in boxers and yet there's been no positive impact in game. IF anything certain items have increased in costs making it harder on the non boxers.



Soldarius wrote:
Holy crap. How can you possibly be that naive? Anyone that opens their fleet to a completely random person in this game is a fool and will eventually get their entire fleet destroyed.

The OP was complaining about an obvious multi-boxer using obviously banned means. And he is right. AFK resource gathering is a pox on the game. It is part of why, when CCP decided to change ice fields from static belts to anoms, so many of us said, "How is that any different than current mechanics? You're just making high-sec mining of high ends easier." and suggested making ice belts Cosmic Signatures. Instead CCP changed all grav sites to anoms on top of the ice belt changes.

Guess what happened? High end minerals, which are found more prevalently in those sites than in belts, are crashing. Zydrine is now worth less than Nocxium. According to Eve-Markets it is at a historical low. Literally never been this low.

If the OP thinks the characters he saw are multiplexing, then he should report them as such. There are pretty easy ways to tell if they are. One of them is to apply to their corp and find out for sure. Chat them up. Some botters are really dumb and most are extremely lazy (hence why they bot) and will readily admit it or point the player to whatever software he is using.

People allow strangers into their mining boost fleet all the time. When it comes to ice mining you're not going to find anything out by joining their fleet that you can't find out by just warping to the ice. Same for rocks it just takes a little more effort.

The ore is at a historical low because Null peeps keep complaining they aren't making enough isk off their stuff. So CCP gave them more to mine and predictably prices crashed. Same thing would happen if they reverted to the old ice. The only people making money would be bots or AFK all day.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#100 - 2015-03-27 20:33:26 UTC
Do I hear calls for a return of the ice interdictions?