These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

As Long As Grid Fu Exists, we're being duped.

Author
Jenshae Chiroptera
#81 - 2015-03-27 16:40:02 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
At one time multi-casting via programs like Isboxer was valid game-play.

Now its not.

Just because grid manipulation is valid game-play now, does not mean it always will be. But my guess is CCP will never declare it an exploit. Instead, they will build it out of the game, or adjust it in some way so as to nerf most of the benefits of doing it.
Yes.
Depends how many people use it and how "big a problem" it becomes after threads like this.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Vyl Vit
#82 - 2015-03-27 16:42:05 UTC
Like the charming OP-er said, everything you do to advance in a game is exploiting a feature. The game designers may not call it that, but that's what they're doing, setting up features, mechanics and parameters for us to exploit with varying degrees of success. Bannable Offense, on the other hand...this is where intelligent discussion falls to the wayside.

It's an unfortunate choice of words using "exploit" to label a sin. We didn't choose it, but someone did. *looks over at the devs* Slotting guns, loading them, targeting something and hitting the fire button is exploiting a feature in the game to gain an advantage you previously didn't have. It's how it's done.

So is asking the dealer to hit you when he's just dealt you an ace. You're trying to exploit the values of a deck (in casinos three decks) of cards to hit something close to 21. They expect it. Devs expect you to try to exploit a system they built. They even try to make it difficult to exploit. If you didn't TRY to exploit it, they'd have to critique their work - go back to the drawing board.

You have to remember Serene Repose's favorite thing to do is monkey with words to achieve a [email protected]$$ed result. Serene exploits the language and people's habits in using it for her own personal amusement, and sometimes with some pretty funny results. However, she also usually has a point.

This point? Maybe it's time the upgrade came to iron out these decade old wrinkles. The tech has seriously jumped past EVE and maybe it's getting near the time to make that investment. How many of us would donate significant real money to help finance an upgrade of the tech platform the game is built around? I'd drop $500 on it...maybe more over time. You?

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#83 - 2015-03-27 16:43:12 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
So do you just rotate complaining topics, or did you seriously only find out about this just now?

I'm starting to think Serene has a taste for hoop earrings and plaid blouses.


Also her name is misleading, for her Repose is the Least Serene I've ever seen! Twisted
Hengle Teron
Rorquals Anonymous
Two Maidens One Chalice
#84 - 2015-03-27 17:12:09 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
Like the charming OP-er said, everything you do to advance in a game is exploiting a feature.

Exploit stands for bug exploits, whenever the talk is about banable offenses.
Serene Repose
#85 - 2015-03-27 17:14:22 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
So do you just rotate complaining topics, or did you seriously only find out about this just now?

I'm starting to think Serene has a taste for hoop earrings and plaid blouses.


Also her name is misleading, for her Repose is the Least Serene I've ever seen! Twisted
Mmm...black leather actually, but sleeveless! My favorite ride; riding b*tch on my old man's Harley (God bless his pointed head), and we think Jack Daniels is a table wine. He rebuilds Harleys in the livingroom. I game in the den. It's a coupling made in hog heaven - chopped hog, that is.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#86 - 2015-03-27 17:16:44 UTC
Hengle Teron wrote:
Vyl Vit wrote:
Like the charming OP-er said, everything you do to advance in a game is exploiting a feature.
Exploit stands for bug exploits, whenever the talk is about banable offenses.
Exploit means whatever game management wants it to mean. "Bug" and "glitch" are words adolescents use among themselves to sound knowledgeable and cool. When you're trying to troubleshoot technology, your language requires precision. "Bannable" for instance.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#87 - 2015-03-27 19:19:09 UTC
A possible new grid mechanic:
This comes from multi-body simulations of the gravitational interactions of stars in a galaxy. Such a simulation may contain hundreds of millions of stars. Each can gravitationally effect the others, resulting in quadrillions of interactions and calculations per time step, and billions of time steps are needed to simulate a galactic collision.
This is far beyond computer capabilities. So what the programmers do is divide space into grids. They find the mass and center of gravity of each grid. In each grid, they calculate each and every star to star interaction. For far away grids: Each star to grid center-of mass interaction is calculated.
But what about stars in nearby grids? If the center of mass was used for a star right up against a grid boundary, there could be large errors caused by not accounting for a star right on the other side of that boundary. A double-star that crosses a grid boundary would fly apart as each star found itself on opposite sides of the boundary.
So that is done is each star-to-star interaction is calculated for all stars in the grid, and for all stars one grid away. It's not until you get two grids away that the center of mass method is used.

For Eve: All ships would see everything in their grid, and everything in all the grids one layer out. It would not be until you cross the second grid boundary that an object would vanish from view. Now, assuming reasonable minimum grid sizes, you could never have two ships a kilometer apart, and not see each other.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2015-03-27 20:41:13 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
CCP may have said Grid Fu in general isn't an exploit.
That doesn't mean specific uses of Grid Fu aren't an exploit. CCP will reimburse for some cases of Grid Fu meaning that they are likely to regard a specific person deliberately creating that particular type of Grid Fu time and time again as an exploit.

There is room for both to be true.
So.... Don't abuse it, don't be a **** about it.

Yeah. CPP says anything that's an unintended consequence that they don't want to fix is not an exploit.

On Grid Fu, create a grid line near a customs office in a wh. Anchor a mobile depot a few k from the gridline. In short order a resident wh'lr will discover the depot and attempt to put it into reinforced, bomb the person through the grid line, you can position your bombers so that the bombs cross the line a few seconds before they explode :) No escape.

Can also do the same with a bubble in the middle of nowhere. They'll scan it down and try to blow it up and you can bomb across the line when they do.

It circumvents the 10 second delay that a person is supposed to get before bombs explode.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Mr Duffo
SQUIDS.
#89 - 2015-03-27 21:27:58 UTC
too long didnt read, for the state?

Skeggǫld, Skálmǫld, Skildir ro Klofnir!

Never forget! #OICXmassacre2014

Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#90 - 2015-03-27 23:08:12 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

Too busy shiptoasting to log in and strike Big smile

Though one could level the same accusation at myself also Blink


Actually, I rather doubt that it's the same accusation right now.

My wife just had our second child(literally yesterday), so while I'm a tad busy, now that she's finally not having a high risk pregnancy (and the thrice weekly doctor visits that entailed), my schedule should free up quite a bit in the near future.

But anyway, as far as my happiness goes. While I thank the random NPC alt for looking after my well being, I'm doing just fine.



Since Kaarous position is nothing is wrong it is obviously an exploit. Just cant be fixed yet due to old code.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#91 - 2015-03-28 03:36:06 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
He rebuilds Harleys in the livingroom.
I took a Harley 1100cc for a ride. Horrible bike. Drove like a car on low revs, vibrated like crazy, need fat heavy arms to damp the handle bar vibrations.
Accelerated out of a corner, it kicked into high revs and threw me across the corner instead of taking me around it. If that iron gate had been closed, I would have been dead. Tore up someone's garden though.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Trevor Dalech
Nobody in Local
Of Sound Mind
#92 - 2015-03-28 05:16:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Trevor Dalech
If you want to remove grid fu, you have to come up with an alternative.

Realize that:
Having everyone in system on the same grid would cause to servers to explode from the load. Thus we need small grids.
Having fixed grids would mean people popping over grid lines all the time, which would result in a very weird combat experience but can just as easily be "exploited" by someone who understands it.

The logical solution seems to be to dynamically enlarge grids when needed, hence grid fu.

If you want to claim that deliberately exploiting grid mechanics should be claimed to be an exploit, you have to come up with a way to detect it. However realize that grids change sizes all the time, almost every player action changes the grid. Mind boggling grid fu can easily happen by accident (it's happened to me a couple of times making perches.) you don't want to be labeling half the playerbase as exploiters.

Lastly, you're not being duped, you're not at a disadvantage. There is no reason you can't use grid fu as well, it's a level playing field.