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Find Killmail?

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Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#21 - 2015-03-27 12:57:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Gimme Sake wrote:
All kills are listed on zkillboard. Api key has nothing to do with it.
Go there, type the name of the pilot in the search list and voila!

How certain are you of that?

Here's an in game killmail from 2015.03.27 @ 11:57

No API linked to any killboard for either character (aggressor only blacked out because I have no clue what to do with that character yet).

zkillboard for the time period of 11:57
zkillboard for the system of Ryddinjorn
zkillboard for the character Test Victim

I'm by no means standing on solid ground with this as I'm not sure myself, but I always thought at least one API needed to be linked for a kill to show up or it had to be manually posted (though 1 hour since the kill may be too short).

Have searched zkillboard information and can't find anything to confirm that though. So I could definitely be wrong and hopefully the kill shows up eventually (and is just slower because there is no API linked).

It doesn't show on eve-kill (same feed as zkill) or Battleclinic either.


e. To the ISDs, I know I've broken the forum rules with this post, but not to cause ridicule (both characters involved are mine), just to provide something to gain a better understanding from. I know the links need to be deleted, but hopefully they can be left for a little while.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#22 - 2015-03-27 12:59:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Gimme Sake wrote:
All kills are listed on zkillboard. Api key has nothing to do with it.
Go there, type the name of the pilot in the search list and voila!

How certain are you of that?

----- cut because derp, quoting what shall not be -----

It doesn't show on eve-kill (same feed as zkill) or Battleclinic either.

I think he just worded it poorly.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2015-03-27 13:00:07 UTC
NPC corp loss / final blow? Would guess somebody has an alt there and sees the kills of the corp ...What?

I'm my own NPC alt.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2015-03-27 14:07:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Gimme Sake wrote:
All kills are listed on zkillboard. Api key has nothing to do with it.
Go there, type the name of the pilot in the search list and voila!

How certain are you of that?

Here's an in game killmail from 2015.03.27 @ 11:57

No API linked to any killboard for either character (aggressor only blacked out because I have no clue what to do with that character yet).

zkillboard for the time period of 11:57
zkillboard for the system of Ryddinjorn
zkillboard for the character Test Victim

I'm by no means standing on solid ground with this as I'm not sure myself, but I always thought at least one API needed to be linked for a kill to show up or it had to be manually posted (though 1 hour since the kill may be too short).

Have searched zkillboard information and can't find anything to confirm that though. So I could definitely be wrong and hopefully the kill shows up eventually (and is just slower because there is no API linked).

It doesn't show on eve-kill (same feed as zkill) or Battleclinic either.


e. To the ISDs, I know I've broken the forum rules with this post, but not to cause ridicule (both characters involved are mine), just to provide something to gain a better understanding from. I know the links need to be deleted, but hopefully they can be left for a little while.



API is a software to software interface, meaning the owner can release it to a 3d party for external linking of certain content. An API key is generated info meant to be shared between players thus external interfacing, software to player. Unlike the API key, the API is instant software to software interaction. Each account in Eve has it's own id and whatever happens to/with that address is processed by the software and thus sent to the third party software regardless if it has generated an external key or not.

Not sure how the API threats trial/unregistered accounts, how much delay can occur from various causes external or internal bugs etc. Maybe naming your character "Test" has got it stuck in some sort of API filter, who knows..

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2015-03-27 14:28:40 UTC

Gimme Sake wrote:
All kills are listed on zkillboard. Api key has nothing to do with it.
Go there, type the name of the pilot in the search list and voila!


This is incorrect. Zkill is not like Evewho. The only way a kill can be listed on Zkill is:

  1. Either player with the final blow or loss has their API plugged in on Zkill
  2. Either player with final blow or loss has their API plugged into a different site that Zkill scrapes. I am not sure if Zkill does that, but other sites do from time to time use Zkill as a backend (for example, eve-kill, Ganker Lookout)
  3. Someone provides an API-less external KM link with hash as described here to Zkill (this was one of the points of the CREST endpoint, to allow players to provide API-less verifiable KM links externally).
  4. Someone has manually provided kill data (I am not sure how this works on Zkill).


The KMs can't be scraped without the hash.

Try typing my name in Zkill. Tell me what you find. Sibs does have plenty of losses (and no kills) in her ingame kill/loss list (miner, no offensive abilities).


Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2015-03-27 14:36:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
Sibyyl wrote:

Gimme Sake wrote:
All kills are listed on zkillboard. Api key has nothing to do with it.
Go there, type the name of the pilot in the search list and voila!


This is incorrect. Zkill is not like Evewho. The only way a kill can be listed on Zkill is:

  1. Either player with the final blow or loss has their API plugged in on Zkill
  2. Either player with final blow or loss has their API plugged into a different site that Zkill scrapes. I am not sure if Zkill does that, but other sites do from time to time use Zkill as a backend (for example, eve-kill, Ganker Lookout)
  3. Someone provides an API-less external KM link with hash as described here to Zkill (this was one of the points of the CREST endpoint, to allow players to provide API-less verifiable KM links externally).
  4. Someone has manually provided kill data (I am not sure how this works on Zkill).


The KMs can't be scraped without the hash.

Try typing my name in Zkill. Tell me what you find. Sibs does have plenty of losses (and no kills) in her ingame kill/loss list (miner, no offensive abilities).





Maybe you must have a first kill to get registered/have a presence there? Bandwidth reasons?

I can tell you for sure I have never generated an API-key yet I'm listed there.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#27 - 2015-03-27 14:39:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
Consufing.

Without API key, there is no access to private API details,
which killmails are.

You are listed for other reasons:
.) Because another party on killmails uploaded the kill or is verified.
.) Corp API.

There should be no way for killboards to access your private data without someone
providing a key, which is the only way to retrieve it.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#28 - 2015-03-27 14:45:15 UTC
The answer to OP is simple...

The victim was in npc corp, so anyone with an alt in that npc corp can fetch the killmail, from the corp's losses.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2015-03-27 14:48:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
Eve Solecist wrote:
Consufing.

Without API key, there is no access to private API details,
which killmails are.

You are listed for other reasons:
.) Because another party on killmails uploaded the kill or is verified.
.) Corp API.

There should be no way for killboards to access your private data without someone
providing a key, which is the only way to retrieve it.



A kill mail is also (external) interfacing between the software and your account, means you get informed about an event that has already registered inside the software. The 3d part does not have access to your mail but it has access to the respective event id on the server. I do not have a generated API key, being inside a rookie npc corp, means I shouldn't have a killboard according to that reasoning.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#30 - 2015-03-27 14:48:53 UTC
Hengle Teron wrote:
The answer to OP is simple...

The victim was in npc corp, so anyone with an alt in that npc corp can fetch the killmail, from the corp's losses.

These are "public" within NPC corps?

Wow, I had no idea!


Thanks, Brutor!
You may have my bike!
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#31 - 2015-03-27 14:50:41 UTC
Gimme Sake wrote:
Eve Solecist wrote:
Consufing.

Without API key, there is no access to private API details,
which killmails are.

You are listed for other reasons:
.) Because another party on killmails uploaded the kill or is verified.
.) Corp API.

There should be no way for killboards to access your private data without someone
providing a key, which is the only way to retrieve it.



A kill mail is also (external) interfacing between the software and your account, means you get informed about an event that has already registered inside the software. I do not have a generated API key being inside a rookie npc corp.

A killmail is a bit of data.
Don't confuse the data with the interface.
Also, that line seems rather consufing again.

Anyhow, Hengle seems to have answered the question,
which is easily verifyable.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2015-03-27 14:52:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
Eve Solecist wrote:
Hengle Teron wrote:
The answer to OP is simple...

The victim was in npc corp, so anyone with an alt in that npc corp can fetch the killmail, from the corp's losses.

These are "public" within NPC corps?

Wow, I had no idea!


Thanks, Brutor!
You may have my bike!



Yep, you can go to the corp tab of an npc corp select "wars"and access corp wide kills/losses. Most are listed there but not all of them, for reasons unknown. I had a loss unlisted there but listed on zkillboard.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#33 - 2015-03-27 14:53:31 UTC
Gimme Sake wrote:
Eve Solecist wrote:
Hengle Teron wrote:
The answer to OP is simple...

The victim was in npc corp, so anyone with an alt in that npc corp can fetch the killmail, from the corp's losses.

These are "public" within NPC corps?

Wow, I had no idea!


Thanks, Brutor!
You may have my bike!



Yep, you can go to the corp tab of an npc corp and access kills/losses. Most are listed there but not all of them, for reasons unknown. I had a loss unlisted there but listed on zkillboard.

Really weird. I guess only a dev can accurately answer the question then.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2015-03-27 14:55:49 UTC

Gimme Sake wrote:

Maybe you must have a first kill to get registered/have a presence there? Bandwidth reasons?

I can tell you for sure I have never generated an API-key yet I'm listed there.


A few of my losses were in Zkill earlier (through APIs submitted by my killers), but they have since disappeared. I don't know the technical reasons for that.

You are listed their because:

  • Someone submitted an external KM link from SWA (your corp)
  • A person who landed a final blow on you, or suffered a loss from you has their API in Zkill


Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2015-03-27 14:56:18 UTC
Could be something downtown related because it was immediately after dt. I can see Scipio Artelius' loss is also close DT.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#36 - 2015-03-27 14:57:16 UTC
Eve Solecist wrote:
Hengle Teron wrote:
The answer to OP is simple...

The victim was in npc corp, so anyone with an alt in that npc corp can fetch the killmail, from the corp's losses.

These are "public" within NPC corps?

Wow, I had no idea!


Thanks, Brutor!
You may have my bike!

aw yiss

finally a bike, I don't need to steal
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#37 - 2015-03-27 15:38:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Gimme Sake wrote:
Could be something downtown related because it was immediately after dt. I can see Scipio Artelius' loss is also close DT.

No, it's not related to DT at all. Simply to the requirements for kills to show on zkillboard.

I could run the test again at anytime (name of character is not important either as the killmail contains the character ID) and the outcome would be the same.

This all comes back to the question in the OP, because in the absense of any API linked to a killboard, it isn't as simple as waiting and then checking zkillboard, hence why she is looking for a way to access the in game killmail.

If you provide an API, zkillboard (and others) can fill in some gaps but only a little bit as CCP provide data for the previous 25 kills/losses for a character when a request is made. Anything older than that needs to be manually uploaded even then.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2015-03-27 16:03:17 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Gimme Sake wrote:
Could be something downtown related because it was immediately after dt. I can see Scipio Artelius' loss is also close DT.

No, it's not related to DT at all. Simply to the requirements for kills to show on zkillboard.

I could run the test again at anytime (name of character is not important either as the killmail contains the character ID) and the outcome would be the same.

This all comes back to the question in the OP, because in the absense of any API linked to a killboard, it isn't as simple as waiting and then checking zkillboard, hence why she is looking for a way to access the in game killmail.

If you provide an API, zkillboard (and others) can fill in some gaps but only a little bit as CCP provide data for the previous 25 kills/losses for a character when a request is made. Anything older than that needs to be manually uploaded even then.




My inquiry was why my loss appeared on zkillboard but didn't in the corp loss listing. Because it means the data delivered to the killboard came from aggressors side. I which case you're probably right about an involved part with an active api key.
If that's true means the reaper link loss (in an npc corp) you posted involved 2 parties without an api key.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#39 - 2015-03-27 16:16:39 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
but hopefully they can be left for a little while.
As this is a trial to proof a specific use case scenario and both involved parties are indeed yours, they will be left alone.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
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