Player Features and Ideas Discussion

We had a pretty healthy discussion about security tags/ganking on the german forum lately.
Obviously it's hard to find consensus on that topic. :)

However, one thing even professional gankers could agree on is that the most dominant problem with ganking these days is, that the majority of gankers don't care about sec status at all and simply stay at -10, without major repercussions.

In essence that means players who actually PLAY the game are punished (by having to buy security tags or grind) while one trick ponies are doing just fine.


IMO a lot of problems with ganking (which i am NOT opposed to per se, as long as there is a bit of risc balancing the reward) could be achieved by making a low sec status a real PITA instead of a minor inconvenience OR by using the fact that -10 is actually a hard cap.

Examples (any combination of those would probably help):
- only allow initiation of an attack that would lower sec status, IF that sec status can actually be lowered, for example for an attack that would lower sec status by 0.1, you would have to be at -9.9 or better (i.e. -10 would effectively mean a permanent green security setting)
- progressively revoke docking rights, at -9 or lower also remove the ability to board ships in space, podded capsuleers should spawn in a low sec station to remove the abusable method of intentional podding
- in addition to untankable concord, create a FAST response mechanism of tankable concord drones based on the sec status of the attacker (that would actually address 2 problems: glass cannon fits purely for ganking and incentive to keep sec status somewhat reasonable), at -10 they should spawn almost instantly


A positive side effect of those changes would probably be an increase of demand for security tags, giving an additional boost to lowsec.

Good of you to include a counter-balance to those massive nerfs. Oh, my mistake, you didn't.

Rather than annoying penalties that gankers are sure to all hate I would rather see some sort of increased incentive for bounty hunter minded people to engage low sec status gankers. Slow down response time for NPC law enforcement against criminals but give bigger incentives for players to go after them and hunt them. Some sort of system that creates fun PvP opportunities rather than just pisses gankers off.

So it can be exploited same way bounty system is?

How is the bounty system exploited?

I got ganked once with expensive stuff and that was fine.
I took a stupid risk, ganker invested a real asset (tornado) in order to try to make profit, loot fairy wasn't with him, though.


Back in the old days sane people actually calculated risk vs. reward, factoring in time window until concord arrives, DPS vs. alpha vs. expected number of salvos, gankers scouted out valuable targets before committing etc.


These days low-life WoW spilloffs into EVE simply google the cheapest destroyer or vexor fits and gank pretty much at random, i.e. they brought their established playstyle to EVE.

It's gone so far that autopilot is useless even without cargo, because the cost of ganking a shuttle or similar is negligible. The sole reason for that being that the ACTUAL INTENDED costly part - the sec hit - is inconsequential, since you're staying at -10 anyway.

Gankers do this now, perhaps even more so now that EHP of industrials has been buffed so much and CONCORD times reduced from the "good ol' days". Couple that with the insurance nerf, and it is very difficult to make a profit ganking as compared to in the past so any ganker pursuing it as a profession needs to do a lot of math to make sure any given gank is possible/profitable.


New Eden is a dangerous place. The cost of losing a shuttle or similar is also negligible. Use autopilot when you are moving nothing of value. Use a more appropriate ship to move your things of value as the developers intend for you to do.

Why should every given gank be profitable?

I'm not a hauler, but IMO there should definitely be a (more or less) safe zone for them, where it's unprofitable to gank them as long as they tank their ship accordingly.




The cost of a POD is often less negligible. The sole disincentive to podding is a more severe sec status hit for podding. Which is again irrelevant to the -10 crowd that is not actually playing the game beyond their one trick.


In the end it comes down to a very basic principle:
The game should not penalize people who participate in a playstyle ( the occasional gank) but ALSO wish to contribute to the game in a contructive way, for example actual pvp with a risk of losing, in lowsec.

Hear. Hear. I've said continually the only problem with ganking, or EVE Murder is no appreciable consequences. The concept of sovereignty is made ridiculous. Why would a murderer, or the equivalent of a terrorist who just committed a terroristic act be allowed to dock in a station? IF it is allowed, how is that not the sovereign power aiding and abetting, and accessory after the fact? It's an absurd concept, and in truth it's how civilized nations enforce their sovereignty internally. This glaring HOLE makes EVE rules - the game of rules with no rules - an object of ridicule.

Law never contradicts itself, or makes a fool of itself.

I guarantee these wanton vandals that have found a home here, and don't bother to learn the entirety of the game, who just buy dessies and suicide gank and that's it, will either engage in the game as a whole if the law is actually enforced on them. OR, they'll go back to WoW which is where most of these "people" belong.

If you don't flush out your house, soon you'll be housing flushes.

EVE's reputation as a cerebral game requiring gaming skills will return.
EVE's reputation as being the cesspool that collects gaming dross will vanish

overnight

TYVM and screw gankers who will now gank this thread 'cause that's all they really know how to do.

Agree and hunting outlaws could be fun.

Problem is, with the current mechanics you have -10 highsec gankers spending most of their time in the boring, repetitive routine:

- Undock from highsec station
- Warp to scout
- Gank, get concorded
- Dock pod in highsec station

Not much hunting opportunities!

I'm a big fan of:

1) removing FacPo - the less NPCs, the better! Have the players police their space

2) remove docking rights in highsec - if you're a dirty pirate, you have to live someplace more pirate-y than Jita or Dodixie. Or put up a POS.


Ganking gameplay would be so much more interesting than the current 'Gankers vs. NPCs'...!