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Char trade

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Torviak Sandman
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-03-25 18:02:51 UTC
Hello,

As I dangle mostly in char trades as I find this to be a good source of isk, I am wondering why cant CCP allow char sales for real money?

Theres some good chars out there that have been banned or out of use for a long time now. As nobody is using the accounts nor the alt accounts, why is it forbidden to gain these chars?

Before some of you start yelling "Its not fair to gain such an advantage!!!", advantage is gained through char sales via isk, all you need is 30 days of grinding and you can buy a decent char for around 2-3b as a starter, then train him as well for a while and grind only in 0.0. To be fair, I made around 6b in Providence (considered to be one of the worst regions in EVE).

Considering that EVE has been active for some time now and has a developed gaming community, I consider the next sensible step to be char trades for dollars, euros, rupees.... There is really no reason to NOT allow it.

People can gain an advantage in numerous other ways, lets face it, account sharing is frowned upon, but we all know theres at least one person who has used someone else's account for "trial purpose". As this is already present, char can be inherited.

I really wanna get my hands on the banned chars as almost all of them have a market potential. And I almost want to be able to trade chars with cash!!!
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2015-03-25 18:04:45 UTC
because if i get banned i can just buy it back? I'm surprised they dont just delete the pilots
Torviak Sandman
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-03-25 18:12:51 UTC
True, but in all fairness, rude people who abuse the EULA, usually get a 30 day ban. Plus I dont think someone who earns a game ban for an unknown reason will use a certain amount of money to reinvest in the same char.

Doesn't CCP use something similar to an IP block as well?

The dealers who sell toons on their own websites via friends, family, corp membership, I am sure they are aware of the risk at the present moment. So I assume they divide up their assets through other chars, other people, other live players. Cant ban them all.

This game already is at a point where you "pay-to-play". You just do it differently. In other games this aspect is pretty much straight forward. "Give me money and you can have the item".

In EVE you get fined for char trades :) Ergo, I want to be able to skip the hassle of buying 100-200 gametime codes, selling them at an estimate price and buying a new toon with isk. I want to skip the middle man and go straight to the seal the deal moment.

Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#4 - 2015-03-25 18:16:58 UTC
because RMT
Paranoid Loyd
#5 - 2015-03-25 18:19:24 UTC
This is the dumbest thread I have read in quite a while, and that is saying a lot around here.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2015-03-25 18:28:12 UTC
Torviak Sandman wrote:
True, but in all fairness, rude people who abuse the EULA, usually get a 30 day ban. Plus I dont think someone who earns a game ban for an unknown reason will use a certain amount of money to reinvest in the same char.
I don't, know. If the price is right it may be less harsh on the bottom line of a RMTer than training a new character. If it's too high than the value of the character becomes entirely up to the person who wants it for something other than skill value. It gets really complicated and has potential for loopholes and abuse. Not to mention people trying to argue the price down and tying up auction devs/GMs/ISDs or whoever. Do it automatically, and you have an artificial influence on an otherwise player based market.

Torviak Sandman wrote:
Doesn't CCP use something similar to an IP block as well?
If I understand correctly they don't. Some people share IPs from the same location and a lot of people use proxies, which CCP has no issue with if you are to believe the fanfest presentation.

Torviak Sandman wrote:
The dealers who sell toons on their own websites via friends, family, corp membership, I am sure they are aware of the risk at the present moment. So I assume they divide up their assets through other chars, other people, other live players. Cant ban them all.
Oh contraire (i have no idea how thats spelled), as CCP devs explained they have ways of tracking who is involved and showed that trying to launder money and assets leaves an obvious trail for them to follow. Sure, you can't ban them all, but I dont expect full perfection. Shouldn't design rules around the idea that perfection is impossible.

Torviak Sandman wrote:
This game already is at a point where you "pay-to-play". You just do it differently. In other games this aspect is pretty much straight forward. "Give me money and you can have the item".
You have a point, but then you also don't. Yes you can pay for PLEX to convert for in-game assets, but there is a very big difference between that and straight up buying t from CCP. I could have all the PLEX in the game, but I'll only make as much money as people are willing to grind for game time. All it really does is make someone else do the work for you, and you pay for that time.

Torviak Sandman wrote:
In EVE you get fined for char trades :) Ergo, I want to be able to skip the hassle of buying 100-200 gametime codes, selling them at an estimate price and buying a new toon with isk. I want to skip the middle man and go straight to the seal the deal moment.
I'll only say that is your personal preference. Some people find the player market 'fun' (weirdos) or valuable in some way. Selling banned accounts, especially at high volume, takes away from the player driven aspect.
Torviak Sandman
Doomheim
#7 - 2015-03-25 18:33:05 UTC
RMT is happening, whether we like it or not.

Goons sell membership or some similar stuff via their forums. Some of them use the money to buy game time codes, then purchase items, chars etc. Absurd or not, its a players choice.

Razor members sell isk and chars between themselves. Was offered to buy some via TS, refused as the idea seemed a bit stupid. Many ways to make isk, but char purchasing is something different.

Russians trade in computer items. Former player in a corp I was in got a laptop worth 700 USD for a char and left the game.

Bottom line is, trades are active, but its all done in a hush hush style. CCP chooses to ignore it to respect the EULA and to block god knows what.

Since its happening, how come it does not go legit? I mean CCP would certainly make a profit. If I recall correctly, the eye contact lens which was sold was unpopular, but it proved there is a market available and waiting to be used.

I for one want to see something like that happen :)
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#8 - 2015-03-25 18:37:58 UTC
Torviak Sandman wrote:
RMT is happening, whether we like it or not.

Goons sell membership or some similar stuff via their forums. Some of them use the money to buy game time codes, then purchase items, chars etc. Absurd or not, its a players choice.

Razor members sell isk and chars between themselves. Was offered to buy some via TS, refused as the idea seemed a bit stupid. Many ways to make isk, but char purchasing is something different.

Russians trade in computer items. Former player in a corp I was in got a laptop worth 700 USD for a char and left the game.

Bottom line is, trades are active, but its all done in a hush hush style. CCP chooses to ignore it to respect the EULA and to block god knows what.

Since its happening, how come it does not go legit? I mean CCP would certainly make a profit. If I recall correctly, the eye contact lens which was sold was unpopular, but it proved there is a market available and waiting to be used.

I for one want to see something like that happen :)



if you have evidence of this, report to ccp security.

And they don;t allow it because your char has no real world value and is not your property. Selling a char for irl is akin to stealing from ccp.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#9 - 2015-03-25 18:41:28 UTC
Torviak Sandman wrote:
RMT is happening, whether we like it or not.

Goons sell membership or some similar stuff via their forums. Some of them use the money to buy game time codes, then purchase items, chars etc. Absurd or not, its a players choice.

Razor members sell isk and chars between themselves. Was offered to buy some via TS, refused as the idea seemed a bit stupid. Many ways to make isk, but char purchasing is something different.

Russians trade in computer items. Former player in a corp I was in got a laptop worth 700 USD for a char and left the game.

Bottom line is, trades are active, but its all done in a hush hush style. CCP chooses to ignore it to respect the EULA and to block god knows what.

Since its happening, how come it does not go legit? I mean CCP would certainly make a profit. If I recall correctly, the eye contact lens which was sold was unpopular, but it proved there is a market available and waiting to be used.

I for one want to see something like that happen :)

ShockedRoll

Seriously... Ugh

Remove standings and insurance.
Petre en Thielles
Doomheim
#10 - 2015-03-25 18:42:17 UTC
New players are in no way the ones who would buy banned accounts. The dude who got banned's corpmate would buy it and give the account info to his buddy.

Torviak Sandman wrote:
True, but in all fairness, rude people who abuse the EULA, usually get a 30 day ban. Plus I dont think someone who earns a game ban for an unknown reason will use a certain amount of money to reinvest in the same char.


Seriously? You don't think people would pay an arm and a leg to have E1's account?

Quote:

Doesn't CCP use something similar to an IP block as well?

The dealers who sell toons on their own websites via friends, family, corp membership, I am sure they are aware of the risk at the present moment. So I assume they divide up their assets through other chars, other people, other live players. Cant ban them all.


"can't ban them all" so might as well make it easier for them?

Quote:

This game already is at a point where you "pay-to-play". You just do it differently. In other games this aspect is pretty much straight forward. "Give me money and you can have the item".

In EVE you get fined for char trades :) Ergo, I want to be able to skip the hassle of buying 100-200 gametime codes, selling them at an estimate price and buying a new toon with isk. I want to skip the middle man and go straight to the seal the deal moment.


If you really, really want to buy a character for real money, why not just buy plex, sell it in game and buy the character off of the bazaar? I think I speak for everyone when I say we will thoroughly enjoy the KMs that follow if you do.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#11 - 2015-03-25 18:44:38 UTC
Petre en Thielles wrote:
New players are in no way the ones who would buy banned accounts. The dude who got banned's corpmate would buy it and give the account info to his buddy.

Torviak Sandman wrote:
True, but in all fairness, rude people who abuse the EULA, usually get a 30 day ban. Plus I dont think someone who earns a game ban for an unknown reason will use a certain amount of money to reinvest in the same char.


Seriously? You don't think people would pay an arm and a leg to have E1's account?

Quote:

Doesn't CCP use something similar to an IP block as well?

The dealers who sell toons on their own websites via friends, family, corp membership, I am sure they are aware of the risk at the present moment. So I assume they divide up their assets through other chars, other people, other live players. Cant ban them all.


"can't ban them all" so might as well make it easier for them?

Quote:

This game already is at a point where you "pay-to-play". You just do it differently. In other games this aspect is pretty much straight forward. "Give me money and you can have the item".

In EVE you get fined for char trades :) Ergo, I want to be able to skip the hassle of buying 100-200 gametime codes, selling them at an estimate price and buying a new toon with isk. I want to skip the middle man and go straight to the seal the deal moment.


If you really, really want to buy a character for real money, why not just buy plex, sell it in game and buy the character off of the bazaar? I think I speak for everyone when I say we will thoroughly enjoy the KMs that follow if you do.


he wants to make real money for his char is what i think he is asking tbh.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Torviak Sandman
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-03-25 18:52:14 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Torviak Sandman wrote:
RMT is happening, whether we like it or not.

Goons sell membership or some similar stuff via their forums. Some of them use the money to buy game time codes, then purchase items, chars etc. Absurd or not, its a players choice.

Razor members sell isk and chars between themselves. Was offered to buy some via TS, refused as the idea seemed a bit stupid. Many ways to make isk, but char purchasing is something different.

Russians trade in computer items. Former player in a corp I was in got a laptop worth 700 USD for a char and left the game.

Bottom line is, trades are active, but its all done in a hush hush style. CCP chooses to ignore it to respect the EULA and to block god knows what.

Since its happening, how come it does not go legit? I mean CCP would certainly make a profit. If I recall correctly, the eye contact lens which was sold was unpopular, but it proved there is a market available and waiting to be used.

I for one want to see something like that happen :)



if you have evidence of this, report to ccp security.

And they don;t allow it because your char has no real world value and is not your property. Selling a char for irl is akin to stealing from ccp.



In a way it does have value.

Time invested in a character is valuable. Player should be able to decide if they want to start from the lowest lever and work their way up towards 100m sp. Some players want to skip all that and get right into the middle of it. Those players should have the option to purchase a char with real money.

How can it not have real world value? You pay for the gtcs, they cost money. Some people with a bit more time grind for the isk and buy the time from the ingame market. Char transfers cost money. If there is an account management option open and CCP gains some financial support from the community in manners of sales, then your stuff does have a value and in the community has to be treated as a valuable object :)

As long as I am a paying customer, the object of value is mine. :) You rent a room in a hotel, its yours till the contract expires or you run out of money.

Char dealers might be weirdoes ( :P ), but I can buy a char for 20b and resell it the next month for 25-30b. Its a good income when you consider the 20 bucks you gotta pay for time. Just gotta keep patient :)

Banned chars are also nice. People just pick up and leave or get banned. Their chars have value and if they are permanently banned, I want to consider an option to buy it. The Customs department in any county has a similar procedure when they impound forbidden goods. But its usually the officials who get the goods in the end.
Torviak Sandman
Doomheim
#13 - 2015-03-25 18:58:00 UTC
Petre en Thielles wrote:
New players are in no way the ones who would buy banned accounts. The dude who got banned's corpmate would buy it and give the account info to his buddy.

Torviak Sandman wrote:
True, but in all fairness, rude people who abuse the EULA, usually get a 30 day ban. Plus I dont think someone who earns a game ban for an unknown reason will use a certain amount of money to reinvest in the same char.


Seriously? You don't think people would pay an arm and a leg to have E1's account?

Quote:

Doesn't CCP use something similar to an IP block as well?

The dealers who sell toons on their own websites via friends, family, corp membership, I am sure they are aware of the risk at the present moment. So I assume they divide up their assets through other chars, other people, other live players. Cant ban them all.


"can't ban them all" so might as well make it easier for them?

Quote:

This game already is at a point where you "pay-to-play". You just do it differently. In other games this aspect is pretty much straight forward. "Give me money and you can have the item".

In EVE you get fined for char trades :) Ergo, I want to be able to skip the hassle of buying 100-200 gametime codes, selling them at an estimate price and buying a new toon with isk. I want to skip the middle man and go straight to the seal the deal moment.


If you really, really want to buy a character for real money, why not just buy plex, sell it in game and buy the character off of the bazaar? I think I speak for everyone when I say we will thoroughly enjoy the KMs that follow if you do.


True, this is always a possibility. But...

You can barter or haggle for a character. Cant really haggle for gametime codes. Chars are in a way unique assets and should have a status of a commodity.
ISD Cyberdyne
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#14 - 2015-03-25 19:02:51 UTC
Thread locked for discussion of RMT. Please discontinue discussion that violates the Eve Online forum rules. Thanks.

Quote:

Forum rules

22. Posting regarding RMT (Real Money Trading) is prohibited.

Posts discussing, linking to, or advertising RMT, including but not limited to the sale of in game items, assets, currency, characters or game accounts for real life money are strictly prohibited.

ISD Cyberdyne

Lieutenant Commander

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department