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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[New structures] Mooring and docking features

First post First post
Author
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#221 - 2015-03-25 16:25:17 UTC
Removed a non-constructive post.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#222 - 2015-03-25 17:27:03 UTC
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
And with, I think i would be cool to REMOVE the watchlist, if you don't approve it.

This free intel is way too powerfull. Some small Ali got theire titan moored; Structure got destoyed. Pilot is watchlisted. He logs in and hunt is on : (

I think this mechanic is bad, kills a lot of suprise; Watchlisting without approvement should be removed.


Hunting anyone specific without watchlists or without locators is in practice impossible. It's not free intel, it's necessary intel.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#223 - 2015-03-25 19:18:09 UTC
Masao Kurata wrote:
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
And with, I think i would be cool to REMOVE the watchlist, if you don't approve it.

This free intel is way too powerfull. Some small Ali got theire titan moored; Structure got destoyed. Pilot is watchlisted. He logs in and hunt is on : (

I think this mechanic is bad, kills a lot of suprise; Watchlisting without approvement should be removed.


Hunting anyone specific without watchlists or without locators is in practice impossible. It's not free intel, it's necessary intel.

I think the watch list can go, but i do think locators can stay. Maybe tie the log in history to the locator so that the information isnt completely gone. But, honestly, knowing exactly when your enemies are awake really kills any kind of surprise tactics on a larger scale
SilentAsTheGrave
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#224 - 2015-03-25 19:25:34 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:




  • Having (super)capitals visible from space, even if invulnerable to direct assault, is going a huge intelligence boost to opposing forces.
  • Having (super)capitals traceable in such a manner could allow third parties to ambush (super)capital pilots as soon as they remove moorings to destroy the ships before they can escape.
  • Having a fixed mooring capability on those structures will create problems if the structure mooring capability is full when another (super)capital pilot tries to use it under pressure.




Make supers cloaked when they "Moor" = no free intel.



This is effectively just docking supers, protection with no intel is the same as docking, but maybe it's time to allow that?

In order to prevent Suddenly Supers Capitals with docking games, you need to have it where undocking super capitals can't lock anything for a period of time after undocking. Maybe even extend that to super capitals that log in that logged off while in space. Make it significant enough to balance out the ability to dock such a powerful ship. That and get rid of remote assist bonus on super carriers and give the Hel a fighter/bomber bonus already.

That said I still think mooring a super capital that stays in space to allow corporation and alliance members to use them as part of station defenses would add some interesting game play. Have upgrades on the station to allow more moored super capitals and the graphics addition so attackers can see what they are up against. Maybe the attackers can target the moored super capitals just like station services to disable it. Can't unmoore the super capital until it is fully repaired. Lots of interesting game play.
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#225 - 2015-03-25 19:44:43 UTC
Rowells wrote:

I think the watch list can go, but i do think locators can stay. Maybe tie the log in history to the locator so that the information isnt completely gone. But, honestly, knowing exactly when your enemies are awake really kills any kind of surprise tactics on a larger scale


There's a very easy counter to that: go afk.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#226 - 2015-03-25 19:59:15 UTC
Masao Kurata wrote:
Rowells wrote:

I think the watch list can go, but i do think locators can stay. Maybe tie the log in history to the locator so that the information isnt completely gone. But, honestly, knowing exactly when your enemies are awake really kills any kind of surprise tactics on a larger scale


There's a very easy counter to that: go afk.

that's not exactly fun gameplay, is it?
Styphon the Black
Forced Euthanasia
#227 - 2015-03-25 20:05:51 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Masao Kurata wrote:
Rowells wrote:

I think the watch list can go, but i do think locators can stay. Maybe tie the log in history to the locator so that the information isnt completely gone. But, honestly, knowing exactly when your enemies are awake really kills any kind of surprise tactics on a larger scale


There's a very easy counter to that: go afk.

that's not exactly fun gameplay, is it?


Any game tactic that involves not actually playing the game points to problem.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#228 - 2015-03-25 20:17:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
I didn't realize there were any significant groups in game that didn't already know exactly where all enemy supers of interest are at any given point in time.

Not really seeing an issue with "too much free intel" in this case.

However, if you're worried about it, request the ability for your mooring structure to be able to mount a module that projects holograms of fake super caps on any empty spot on the mooring platform. Pilots with permission to moor at that structure could easily determine which slots are still free, but no one else could unless they perhaps did a lengthy scan with a ship scanner at relatively short range.

To be honest any capital ship, let alone any super cap, should be nigh impossible to hide from anyone wanting to track it's movements.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Rialen
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#229 - 2015-03-25 21:37:04 UTC
posted a brief idea for mooring in the drilling platform (as I was writing specifically for it)...

Firstly, I am assuming that these structures can be attacked at any time (not like the entosis link system with a 4hr primary timer).
As such, parking a super cap or titan at the structure will mean that a high number of players can reinforced structure very quickly putting those ships at risk (during owner's offpeak time)

As such, (and I think this was mentioned previously), the ability to pass weapons control (high slot) over to the structure is idea, when moored and no pilot is within the ship. This will provide additional offensive capabilities for the structures when it is attacked.


  • Structures with high slot weapons (means you have set number of offensive weapons fitted to the structure).
  • you can moor dreadnaught (with weapons and ammo) will add additional fire power (usually seige weapons to take out larger capital ships)
  • you can moor super caps (although super caps don't have weapons in highslots, maybe bombers from super cap can be launched and defend structure
  • if you moor a titan, the capital guns on a titan can open fire on whatever attacks structure
Zheng'Yi Sao
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#230 - 2015-03-25 22:56:21 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Another element i want to throw in here is the idea of soft mooring which works a bit like the current POS shield so you can still move around and use dscan etc within range of the structure but you cannot target anything and you are invulnerable.

It is basically an area invulnerability effect around the station like a remote rep or similar. It allows you to warp to 0 or undock into relative safety.

You can of course be bumped unless you do a hard mooring or dock up.

Thoughts?


Is this where I am supposed to park my Rorqual, or warp my Exhumers to?


"It's funny the things you people think are mandatory for us, as if we don't do what we do because it's a hilarious good time in a space video game." - Johnny Marzetti

Zheng'Yi Sao
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#231 - 2015-03-25 23:14:23 UTC
Midori Tsu wrote:
"This is meant as a replacement for Starbase forcefield which currently has a certain number of issues."

Would it be possible to get a list of these issues?

As i see it, mooring is a really bad replacement for the removal of POS shields, increased risk for almost no bonus.


I've been searching through a couple threads for this very same list. I would very much love to find one..

"It's funny the things you people think are mandatory for us, as if we don't do what we do because it's a hilarious good time in a space video game." - Johnny Marzetti

Zheng'Yi Sao
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#232 - 2015-03-25 23:23:02 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
These changes are far enough in the future it's likely that we'll also get capital ship changes, including the Rorqual, before that, along with the long promised removal of Off Grid Boosting, making the entire point moot anyway.

I think that's a more than reasonable expectation at this point.


Very reasonable. Question is are we the only ones who reason this way? As others have pointed out, there is a whole lot of smoke and pictures, and nothing solid to comment on. Major shake up, no answers. I am not sure what is really expected out of us here. The whole thing is pretty frustrating.

"It's funny the things you people think are mandatory for us, as if we don't do what we do because it's a hilarious good time in a space video game." - Johnny Marzetti

Siobhan MacLeary
Doomheim
#233 - 2015-03-26 00:04:33 UTC
Lu Ziffer wrote:
If a supercapital is XL sized the station it is moored to should be XXL just to be reasonable in size.
Combined with the idea of having weapon highslots on structures the defence of such a station should be more then enough to keep a few ships of the grid.


Scaps are 14-15km long. XL structures are 100km in at least one dimension. L structures are 45km in at least one dimension.

I don't think we have to worry about scale being off.

Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.” - CCP Soundwave

Cade Windstalker
#234 - 2015-03-26 01:01:55 UTC
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
In order to prevent Suddenly Supers Capitals with docking games, you need to have it where undocking super capitals can't lock anything for a period of time after undocking. Maybe even extend that to super capitals that log in that logged off while in space. Make it significant enough to balance out the ability to dock such a powerful ship. That and get rid of remote assist bonus on super carriers and give the Hel a fighter/bomber bonus already.


You mean like a base locking time that is on the order of 20-30 seconds against a Battleship? I mean, right now with a POS supers can sit, fully functional, sitting just outside a POS shield and duck inside as soon as they get shot, as well as ducking out relatively easily, so it's not like this is much of a concern compared to the current system.

Zheng'Yi Sao wrote:
Very reasonable. Question is are we the only ones who reason this way? As others have pointed out, there is a whole lot of smoke and pictures, and nothing solid to comment on. Major shake up, no answers. I am not sure what is really expected out of us here. The whole thing is pretty frustrating.


Read the first post. They're looking for feedback and ideas. Pretty clear cut there. This is a first pass to get general feedback and suggestions from the community.
Lienzo
Amanuensis
#235 - 2015-03-26 05:42:43 UTC
I think it matters a great deal where these things are.

With a few caveats, I favor making sov matter. However, it needs to be based on adjacency, or sov in neighboring systems. Each level of sov should include new defensive modules. These high defense sov upgrades should favor tactical upgrades and manufacturing. They should be bad for harvesting and pve of all sorts.

Each of these anchorables should double shields, double structure sensor strength, double reinforcement times, and doubles entosis time. This would make shipyards in the highest sov systems unprobeable. (Does nothing for spies.) This would actually make it no longer necessary to restrict players from putting them elsewhere, only make it more risky to do so.

Adjacency complements the new sov concept, but also keeps some of the sanity of dominion sov. It gives alliances a secure center, but can cripple them quickly if they do not address sustained pinprick assaults on their periphery.

If you want people to play chess, you have to give them a chessboard. If you want people to play ping pong, you give them a table and a paddle.
Felter Echerie
Profit Prophets
#236 - 2015-03-26 08:10:27 UTC
it just make sense that huge ships like capitals would need huge structures to support them.
Anthar Thebess
#237 - 2015-03-26 10:41:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Will there be ability to upgrade structure to bigger size one.

Bad example, but some example.

I deploy mobile depot.
Bring 3 capital construction modules and now i have lvl 1 private depot.
(stationary much more EHP, i must place strontium to have reinforce timer)

I make another course and bring 5 other capital construction modules and i have lvl 2 private depot.
(More EHP, but i can mount first module)

Next course, again few cap components.
(Much much more EHP, i can mount first capital guns, and now even dock small ships)

etc.

To the point i have private structure that have few guns, small fleet hangar , and it is capable to deploy 2 squads ( 3 fighters in each) defensive ships that will any one based on their standings within vicinity of the structure.
John McCreedy
Eve Defence Force
#238 - 2015-03-26 14:42:37 UTC  |  Edited by: John McCreedy
Look, the biggest problem with the mooring idea floated so far is operations in enemy territory, mainly involving Super Capital pilots. It simply doesn't make strategic, logistical or financial sense to deploy an XL structure in your neighbours back yard, even assuming there's a free planet to do so. So why not keep Large Towers in as the Medium sized structure which solves this problem? Or tell us what your plan for Supers is so Super Cap pilots at least have some context for these changes.

13 years and counting. Eve Defence Force is recruiting.

Evil Zeb
Doomheim
#239 - 2015-03-26 16:12:56 UTC
I like the idea of leaving a deployable staging structure that has a shield where people can assemble fleets and or stage there supers in it, they would also be able to titan bridge in safety and it would allow for all the edge cases that are covered by starbases now, but it would come pre configured with defences ref timers and such with a just add fuel requirement. we can call it anything other than a Minmatar control tower just to help the everything must change group but it would actually be a Minmatar control tower called something else.
Gfy Trextron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#240 - 2015-03-26 16:25:58 UTC
Yes secrecy is not relevent. Most everyone knows who has what basically where. Having a super at most is a suprise in the first engagement then all of new eden knows where it is and who. i think the major concerns for super carriers is the ability to safely log on and off. ofcourse there are some other safety concerns to ratters and mission runners who need a safe place to run to when local spikes or probes are seen.

Titans need the same log on and off security plus a safe area for bridging.

Miners need safe places for Rorquals to boost and compress along with a safe place to run to when local spikes. They are often in systems without stations.

From what I gather so far titans will have no safe place to bridge making titans risk vs reward far far less. Supers capitals could be pointed or probed easily detaching or warping. Remember finding a log off spot is easy to do and just wait for the log in. Plus hics warp much faster, just watch you detach and warp off and be to the place you warp to before you get there. Miners will have no reasonable place to use a rorqual or safe up in empty systems.

Docking rings and forcefields are a huge part of game play, removing them removes any balance smaller organizations have at leveling the playing field. We are not all in 10,000 man corps and sometimes the only available leveling mechanism is the choice not to fight.

Frigs for all until we nerf them to noob ships, then some will be upset the noob ships don't self destruct at log on.

I believe that there are many things wrong with supers but that mostly revolves around the production and trading aspects of them. This may fix the trading aspect some day, but nobody will want them by then anyway if logging on or un mooring equates to probable death of our 30-100bil isk boosters...