Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Kind of missing a "Why" portion.

Golem already has amazing tank, amazing range, and amazing damage. It does more DPS with 200KM cruise missiles than any other marauder can unless they are using close range weapons and t2 close range ammo at stupid close ranges, where they rapidly run into tracking problems.

It has some slight damage application problems against smaller targets, which can be mostly solved by using the TP.

Do I see a compelling reason to allow you to go even further into easy mode by removing the small need to actually use your TP on the primary target and allowing you to roll the slot previously used by now baked in TP into adding even more tank to an already incredibly tanky ship?

Ehhh....no.


Edit: Oh Cthulu I just realized it's Arthur. Excuse me while I go prepare to have my criticism of the idea dismissed as a zealot with a crusade against missiles who can't understand why all ideas relating to buffing missiles or missile using ships are not inherently good.

Oh certainly. On an equal damage mod for mod basis My Vargur does more raw damage with Hail than the Golem does with Furies.

That 3.8Km optimal though on the autos. Oh and the -30% tracking speed. Wonderful.

And the Kronos does more with Spike than Golem does with Furies. That 23Km optimal though, with incredibly bad tracking.

The Paladin does more with Conflag than a Golem does with Furies. As long as you only want to hit slow moving targets at 26 KM or so. I suppose you could Tach fit it if you don't care about tracking anything faster than an iceberg.

Even with an optimal scripted tracking computer and a TE, Vargur does about the same damage at 30 KM (using either Hail or Barrage) as Golem gets with even t1 cruise missiles. And far less than fury or faction missiles. And it just gets worse in comparison as the range stretches past that.

Paladin is very good tbh. Bit less tank than the Golem, with scorch DPS about halfway between t1 missile and Fury missile DPS. Course it also has to deal with finicky cap issues, tracking, tracking disruption rendering it useless, and weakness to neuts. And limited damage types.

Kronos is ****, outside of situations where you know your targets won't be leaving null range (if blasters), or that they will traveling directly at you (if rails). Mediocre DPS, mediocre tank, mediocre projection, limited damage types, similar weakness to everything as the paladin without the great tank, DPS, or projection.

Golem is ok. Yes it has application issues. Yes it typically uses at least one, typically two of it's mid/tank slots for damage application.

I'm sure none of the other ones need to use slots to effectively project damage though. Something the Golem doesn't have to worry about, since even the closest range ammo on a Golem goes over 200KM.

72km torpedo golems are flipping sweet...

Now i've never really looked into them but you can tank a vargur startelingly effectively with a pith xl booster, a SBA and a dc and fitting no tank and massive gank... I dont see a reason you couldnt do the same with a golem... But then i really do not speak missles...

The Paladin gets a capacitor bonus, and Bastion renders it immune from tracking disruption (as well as all forms of electronic warfare). All Marauders have to deal with neutralizers - not just the Paladin.


I'll have to take you at face value as I've never trained into it, but the general perception seems to be that it's at the bottom of the heap.


You typically need 2 target painters on the Golem unless you run Rigors. And it's not just that you need 2 target painters, it's that you're constantly micromanaging them. It's not like a tracking computer that you can simply turn on and let it run. You keep bringing up the 200km+ range of cruise missiles, but it's just not practical. For starters, you lose another 2 slots to boost your sensor range. Then there's the 10-15 second lead time until target impact. If missiles were so awesome for long-range combat everyone would be using them in fleets. Hmmm...


It's 84km with hydraulic rigs and Javelin ammunition (while in Bastion, mind you). The problem is that they do less damage and have worse damage application than cruise missiles. In PvE, NPC ships have a tendency to hover just outside your maximum torpedo range. The irony...

Any of the other Marauders can hit anything cruiser-sized and above without issue, so the Golem isn't unique in that respect.

Although I usually see some merits in our posts Arthus, I don't understand this one, there is nothing wrong with the Golem.


TP's are great, not to mention a treat for your entire fleet.

In high class wormholes - yes, pretty much every damn time. Sometimes in null fleets as well, in a BS doctrine (rare, but still).

I don't have an objection really. You asked a question, so I answered. Yes, the TP bonus is an incredible boost for WH Dreads and the Golem is used there frequently because of precisely that reason, and that reason only.

Don't fiddle with the TP bonus of the Golem, its one of its unique characteristics bonuses!
Was a while since i flew one but the TP really helps against frigates and cruisers to an extent.

-1

I can get more than 1200 DPS tank average across fittings for all of the NPC races without the bastion module.
At the same time I can fit 2 target painters, 4 ballistic controls and I use rigor cats.
With fury I can single volley virtually every battle cruiser in every level 4 missions I have ever run at ranges from a few thousand meters to the 118k targeting range.
Cruiser destroyer and most frigates go pop in a single volley using the precision tech 2.
Leaving only the elite frigates which never take more than 2 volleys although most of them go down in 1, and the BS where the lower DPS of the fury versus torp fit requires 4 and occasionally 5 volleys to take them out.

And all of this using a clone with no implants. If you hare having trouble with insufficient damage, or your damage application your fit is likely the cause of your problems and not the ships bonuses.

Setting all of that aside and dealing with your post specifically you gain nothing.
TP increase the sig radius of the target which is functionally the same and decreasing your explosion radius so this change would not gain anything.

You list the bonus as 25% for explosion radius and that would be horrible, smaller is always better so if you want to push your idea better change that to a -25% bonus.