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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Petition: Remove Slaves from the SCC Markets.
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Astera Zandraki
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#141 - 2015-03-21 14:18:18 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
The Federation proudly, and loudly proclaims it wishes to protect freedom, yet it still holds the Caldari home planet under occupation. I guess those core values only go so far.


Where were the parades of victory when the Caldari Navy 'liberated' Caldari Prime? Where we're the throngs of happy children and civilians giving soldiers flowers? There was none of that, because the actual inhabitants of Caldari Prime were, on the whole, doing fine, until war was thrust on them.

Now, here's the thing about the Federation: we **** up, every nation does. The bombardment of Caldari prime in the old war was a vile crime and, in my opinion, if it would bring peace I'd be happy to give Caldari Prime to the State. Now, Roden might disagree with me, but I can still dissent from his view without fear for my life, job or freedom.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#142 - 2015-03-21 14:43:50 UTC
Astera Zandraki wrote:
Ashlar Vellum wrote:

Even sansha supporters can say the same.


Even Blood Raiders claim a monopoly on God.

Judging by your response you aren't buying what you are trying to sell, so why spew all this "noble of ideas" nonsense.
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#143 - 2015-03-21 15:23:44 UTC
Hm.

Signed. I don't consider myself a very pious man, but all of us are connected in my mind; trading a human being for ISK is not something that should be condoned by the SCC.

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#144 - 2015-03-21 15:35:29 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
The Federation proudly, and loudly proclaims it wishes to protect freedom, yet it still holds the Caldari home planet under occupation. I guess those core values only go so far.


The planet is currently under a joint collaboration between the Federation and the Ishukone corporation.
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#145 - 2015-03-21 15:43:20 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Utari Onzo wrote:
The Federation proudly, and loudly proclaims it wishes to protect freedom, yet it still holds the Caldari home planet under occupation. I guess those core values only go so far.


The planet is currently under a joint collaboration between the Federation and the Ishukone corporation.


While still under the sovereignity of the Federation. That's still occupation.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Astera Zandraki
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#146 - 2015-03-21 15:52:16 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:

Judging by your response you aren't buying what you are trying to sell, so why spew all this "noble of ideas" nonsense.


Just because I don't think an end to all pointless suffering is possible, doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for it? It is very much like perfection, not possible; but that shouldn't stop you.
Astera Zandraki
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#147 - 2015-03-21 15:53:55 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Utari Onzo wrote:
The Federation proudly, and loudly proclaims it wishes to protect freedom, yet it still holds the Caldari home planet under occupation. I guess those core values only go so far.


The planet is currently under a joint collaboration between the Federation and the Ishukone corporation.


While still under the sovereignity of the Federation. That's still occupation.


Why don't you ask the people who live there to pass judgement in that?
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#148 - 2015-03-21 15:56:47 UTC
Astera Zandraki wrote:


Why don't you ask the people who live there to pass judgement in that?


You mean the Gallentean colonists who've been flowing on to Caldari Prime over the last couple of centuries? Yes, because I will certainatly get an unbiased opinion from them.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#149 - 2015-03-21 17:33:10 UTC
Or all the pre corporate Caldari, heirs of the Raata Empire ? I wonder if their opinion is so straight forward that people would like to assume it is...

Either way... said colonists were already well established when the war broke out. This predates Duvaller and Hueromont, when the Caldari were yet another federal state among many in Luminaire. Caldari Prime pretty much ceased to be de facto Caldari when they were uplifted by the Federation, the same way it went that way for the Mannar or the Intaki.

People can send calls to segregation like under Duvaller, or other agitated eras, and wish for a clear separation of cultures and wish for a return to old nation states, but that will necessarily imply mass exoduses and fights for places shared by many, original settlers or locals, or not.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#150 - 2015-03-21 19:41:25 UTC
Astera Zandraki wrote:

Why don't you ask the people who live there to pass judgement in that?


Hang on, just let me ethnically cleanse whole districts and ship in freighter loads of good Forge district families and THEN we'll take that vote.

You know. Like the Federation did.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Astera Zandraki
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#151 - 2015-03-21 22:15:43 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Astera Zandraki wrote:

Why don't you ask the people who live there to pass judgement in that?


Hang on, just let me ethnically cleanse whole districts and ship in freighter loads of good Forge district families and THEN we'll take that vote.

You know. Like the Federation did.


It's been centuries since that mistake, and that's exactly what the Caldari/Gallente war was, a mistake. If you want your real enemy, Pieter you should look as you always have, to your 'ally'
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#152 - 2015-03-22 09:35:20 UTC
That point is irrelevant. A gallente minority already existed prior to the war.
The Golden Serpent
A Drunken Squirrels' Conspiracy for Revenge
#153 - 2015-03-22 16:34:00 UTC  |  Edited by: The Golden Serpent
Suffering is God's Vengeance there is no end to suffering until humanity stops straying from his side (infidels). The wretched and the weak are that way because they have offended the almighty. Suffering will end when God decides it in all cases. A peaceful world and universe will be one in which all of its citizens are worshipping God constantly and living for his Will in his Light.

Slavery is better than killing people who do not fight, which is more than I can say Gallente do from watching them. They are bloodthirsty and do not take slaves, so they kill more than we do, as they have weird bad and wrong ideology that does not let them take slaves or bow to Lord God Almighty.

-:¦:-•:'":•.-:¦:-•* K H A N I D •-:¦:-•:''''*:•-:¦:-
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#154 - 2015-03-25 09:36:39 UTC
Signed.

Instead of any Sabik lunatic with half an isk in his or her pocket, let us professionals take care of the slave trade.
For those thinking this is a step towards abolishment of slavery, your naivete is as amusing as it is shallow; as long as there's the demand, there's going to be a supply.

Deitra Vess wrote:

So you'd buy your slaves off of a group with a notably large Matari Population? Even down to having a bastardized version of the Matari tattooing rituals? Wow.....


Bastardized? Rather offensive, ms. Vess, both on account of our culture and our professionalism. I'd advise you do check your facts and inform yourself before believing everything the Scope is feeding you.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc
Dailar Toralen
Toralen Industries
#155 - 2015-03-25 13:16:29 UTC
Not signed. This is outrageous!

Us Capsuleers are immortals. We are not common-folk, not in the least bit. We rule Empires of our own making. It takes them thousands of years to form Empires, it takes us months. Also, consider that there are many Capsuleers who fight for the Empire who make a living off of the Slave Trade, and also threw Slave Labor among our ships.

We are Toralen Industries. It doesn't matter if you fight for money, idealogies, or because it's what you are good at and it doesn't matter if you fight threw trade, combat, or diplomacy. No matter what or how you fight, there's a place for you.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#156 - 2015-03-25 13:54:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Dailar Toralen wrote:
Also, consider that there are many Capsuleers who fight for the Empire who make a living off of the Slave Trade, and also threw Slave Labor among our ships.


If those capsuleers are not Holders, then they have no right to own slaves. And if they are Holders, then they can trade or purchase slaves directly between themselves or at traditional planetside slave markets as they have been doing for thousands of years.

Amarr has not needed, and does not need, foreign-controlled markets like the SCC involved in our slave trade.
Dailar Toralen
Toralen Industries
#157 - 2015-03-25 13:59:18 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
Dailar Toralen wrote:
Also, consider that there are many Capsuleers who fight for the Empire who make a living off of the Slave Trade, and also threw Slave Labor among our ships.


If those capsuleers are not Holders, then they have no right to own slaves. And if they are Holders, then they can trade or purchase slaves directly between themselves or at planetside slave markets.

Amarr has not needed, and does not need, foreign-controlled markets like the SCC involved in our slave trade.


I never spoke of the SCC, but I did speak of the Slave Trade. We do have right to hold slaves. We are primary suppliers of slaves due to our pillaging and raiding (for some of us).

We are Toralen Industries. It doesn't matter if you fight for money, idealogies, or because it's what you are good at and it doesn't matter if you fight threw trade, combat, or diplomacy. No matter what or how you fight, there's a place for you.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#158 - 2015-03-25 14:27:14 UTC
Dailar Toralen wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
Dailar Toralen wrote:
Also, consider that there are many Capsuleers who fight for the Empire who make a living off of the Slave Trade, and also threw Slave Labor among our ships.


If those capsuleers are not Holders, then they have no right to own slaves. And if they are Holders, then they can trade or purchase slaves directly between themselves or at planetside slave markets.

Amarr has not needed, and does not need, foreign-controlled markets like the SCC involved in our slave trade.


I never spoke of the SCC, but I did speak of the Slave Trade. We do have right to hold slaves. We are primary suppliers of slaves due to our pillaging and raiding (for some of us).


This petition is explicitly about the SCC.

And no, you do not have any right. The military has the right to enslave prisoners of war, not the militia. The militia are independent hired combatants. You do not suddenly have any power in Amarr just because you signed a contract to kill people for pay.

Even if the militia did have the right to enslave, the right to enslave is much different from the right to own. Scriptural law is very clear on this: Only Holders may own slaves, period.
Dailar Toralen
Toralen Industries
#159 - 2015-03-25 14:32:32 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
Dailar Toralen wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
Dailar Toralen wrote:
Also, consider that there are many Capsuleers who fight for the Empire who make a living off of the Slave Trade, and also threw Slave Labor among our ships.


If those capsuleers are not Holders, then they have no right to own slaves. And if they are Holders, then they can trade or purchase slaves directly between themselves or at planetside slave markets.

Amarr has not needed, and does not need, foreign-controlled markets like the SCC involved in our slave trade.


I never spoke of the SCC, but I did speak of the Slave Trade. We do have right to hold slaves. We are primary suppliers of slaves due to our pillaging and raiding (for some of us).


This petition is explicitly about the SCC.

And no, you do not have any right. The military has the right to enslave prisoners of war, not the militia. The militia are independent hired combatants. You do not suddenly have any power in Amarr just because you signed a contract to kill people for pay.

Even if the militia did have the right to enslave, the right to enslave is much different from the right to own. Scriptural law is very clear on this: Only Holders may own slaves, period.


Are you Amarr always going to stand behind your religion as a shield for everything thing you do? Threw joining the Militia Toralen Industries has technically become a part of the Amarrian Empire, along with the rest of the militia. We are not paid in ISK, but in rewards for our loyalty. May I remind you that the Militia is known as the 24th Imperial Crusade, a recognized and large part of the Ministry of War?

We are Toralen Industries. It doesn't matter if you fight for money, idealogies, or because it's what you are good at and it doesn't matter if you fight threw trade, combat, or diplomacy. No matter what or how you fight, there's a place for you.
Nomistrav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2015-03-25 14:41:14 UTC
I abstain from commitment toward either decision - choosing to waive that right entirely - as to not become involved in matters of other cultures; that I may feel free to ask them not to become involved in matters of mine.

"As long as space endures,

as long as sentient beings exist,

until then, may I too remain

and dispel the miseries of the world."

~ Vremaja Idama