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Thank You from a Departing New Player

First post
Author
Tristan Locke
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-03-24 03:01:19 UTC
Hi there!

Last week, as I was preparing to enter Eve after two months of studying, I read a sour, somewhat judgmental account from a quitting new player who just seems like he just didn't get it and never tried to get it. I thought about that writer as I boldly entered the game, when I was scrutinized for knowing 'a little more' than your average new player might, when I was confused, and completely lost. About an hour ago, after a harrowing experience of feeling completely lost in a stressful environment, it occurred to me that I am not the right player for this game:

I have an innate, neurotic need to obsessively research everything. I must have a linear, comprehensive understanding of ALL THINGS top to bottom. Yet, I also need that corp newbie mentor who will take me to a WH for the first time and say, "Tristan, this is a WH. This is what our POS looks like. This is a command center. This is why you don't have to stay docked at a station when we're wardecced." instead of linking things that I've probably already read. I had made it known that I was uncomfortable and still uncertain, but the consensus was that at some point, you have to 'jump.' At the end of the day, when a friendly corp provided some book marks and left me to sink or swim while more advanced players did things together, in a game where that seems the common approach, I sank and I sank hard.

I did not process the uncertainty or confusion as 'thrilling' or 'exciting', but as stress. I was genuinely uncomfortable throughout. At that moment, I saw the writing on the proverbial wall. The stressed-out reaction would not dissipate over time, and I would not embrace or take full advantage of this game. In the end, I would simply be a detriment to the game and any corp that would have me. For whatever reason, I lack the constitution or resilience to hack it here. There is NOBODY to blame for that but myself.

There are so many complaining newbie posts, so much in-game whining about vets, that I would be remiss were I not to stop, in passing, and thank you all for this experience. I have prefaced that sentiment to the point that the genuine intent of my sentiment may be lost, but it is genuine.

Thank you, Eve, and Eve community, for allowing me to partake in your world, if only for a little while.

Tristan Locke

Merouk Baas
#2 - 2015-03-24 03:23:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Merouk Baas
Tristan Locke wrote:

I [...] need that mentor who will [show me everything] instead of linking things that I've probably already read.

I must have a linear, comprehensive understanding of ALL THINGS top to bottom.

I have an innate, neurotic need to obsessively research everything.


This is supposed to be a game, and the reason why a million guides exist on the internet is because everything takes a long ass time to type, so we'd rather only do it once, and reach just about all the newbies as an audience rather than a single person at a time. This game has somewhat complex features that would take hours and hours of typing to explain.

And, sorry to be blunt, but from a friendly corp's point of view, you are merely newbie number 49235, and your RL wife / girlfriend / parents / siblings may be inclined to deal with your neuroses and needs, but nobody else should have to. That's what family members are for.

Thus,
Tristan Locke wrote:

The consensus was that at some point, you have to 'jump.'

At the end of the day, when a friendly corp provided some book marks and left me to sink or swim while more advanced players did things together, in a game where that seems the common approach, I sank and I sank hard.


This is an MMO game, and you can expect us to be anonymous, indifferent internet avatars who are logging into this game in search of "fun." If you cannot figure the game out mostly on your own, then not many will want to play with you, and you won't have fun in this game.

Enjoy other games out there; there's a million of them.
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
#3 - 2015-03-24 03:46:23 UTC  |  Edited by: L'ouris
It might help you to know that you described "the shakes" that folk talk about. Especially in PVP.

That sense of distress because you don't want to lose your stuff.

It is in fact normal, and very few folk I run into actually enjoy them. Pretty sure those are the same folk who trust high school kids with the math for their bungee cords :)

It also sounds like you hit the deep end with POS living and wormholes. It might help to try the pool before jumping into the shark tank. I'd give one off the more common highsec based new player oriented corps. I can almost guarantee that it would let you ease into the stress test more.

Edit: spellcheck is the devil.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2015-03-24 03:56:55 UTC
Tristan Locke wrote:

In the end, I would simply be a detriment to the game and any corp that would have me. For whatever reason, I lack the constitution or resilience to hack it here. There is NOBODY to blame for that but myself.

We play this game together. The more the merrier. This "I need to be overly helpful to my corp or quit the game" concept I blame on other MMOs. If you want to last in this game it's a concept you need to drop and drop fast. You do what you enjoy and find people to do it with.

It sounds to me like you got in a corp that was not a good fit. Instead of trying to find a better one you leave the game.

I've been playing this game much more on than off since 2009 and I don't have a full and comprehensive understanding of this game. You have to get used to not knowing **** and learning as you go. You have to be excited about a game that years from now you will still be learning stuff about.

Also you can read all that you want but experience is not only the best teacher but in truth the only way that you can really know a thing.

You do need friends in this game. You will need helpful people willing to take you by the hand and show you the ropes. It does not sound to me like you found that. Sounds to me like you found a corp that just recruits as many new players as possible hoping to get some isk via taxes instead of really being interested in playing the game with them.

If you want to find a good corp you have to talk with several and hang out in their public channels for a while. Even then it's not a guarantee and you might have to corp hop a bit to find a home.

But regardless of how much help and advice you get at some point you have to run head first into the brick wall and when you wake back up shake off the headache and try to learn from the experience. If you can't do that then you are correct this game might not be for you.

However I would guess that with the right corp you would like this game. But this game is not easy on quitters, it's more of a home for masochists.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

vccv
#5 - 2015-03-24 05:58:37 UTC  |  Edited by: vccv
That is the fun of EVE. Life in EVE is vast, always evolving, and the complex interactions and activities taking place within are what make it so interesting, awe inspiring and enjoyable. You essentially enter as an infant and grow over a very long period of hard learned lessons, horrible failures, glorious victories, redemption and pain. It is the same reason that players dating back 10+ years are still playing and why videos and AARs made by both new players and elite gangs can inspire us to strive forward day to day. There is no wiki to explain how to be your best in life, nor in EVE. You learn slowly, by experience. Stick with it, and commit to the long haul, that is the fun of it!

Sorry to see you go. Don't forget us, and come back again later for another trial! There are so many different routes to take and Corp personalities with helpful people which could take you in and help you evolve into a great pilot. The shakes will always come around, but that just means you're immersed in the experience of it all. o7
Phig Neutron
Starbreaker and Sons
#6 - 2015-03-24 06:31:41 UTC
Did you join a corporation that has voice communication via Teamspeak, Ventrilo, or Mumble? Often times people are glad to explain things on comms that they wouldn't want to waste time typing. It's just a much higher-bandwidth form of communication. Give it a try before you go.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2015-03-24 08:51:30 UTC
Well, I must say it saddens me to read your post.

Contrary to what most others say, you don't have to join a player corp in order to advance and or excel in this game. In my 7 years of playing Eve, I've never felt the need to or had to join a player corp in order to be successful in this game.

As for needing to jump into the deep end right from the start, that's a big mistake a lot of new players make due to believing false propaganda constantly being spread by much older contemptible players.

There's other ways to socialize, interact and participate with other players in this game besides joining a player corp. One of the best methods is with chat channels in game and by forming fleets with others who have the same skill level. I have 7 different chat channels open at all times and if they can, the players in those chat channels will help each other by sharing info or with their actual presence in the game.

Granted it takes time to build up social circles like that but in the mean time while doing that, you won't find yourself being placed on a sacrificial alter. Now if you still feel like you need to join a player corp to succeed in this game, there are indeed a few good ones available. Just don't be in a rush to join a player corp. Take your time, do some research on them, go on a couple of fleet ops, etc. If they leave you high and dry like before, then they aren't worth joining.

I hope you change your mind and stick with the game.


DMC
roberts dragon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-03-24 11:36:00 UTC
you just need to find other players like you so you doing the first step like sit on me couch and tell me your problems , if you enjoy the game and don't want the hassle to do this or that then find another corp to join .

just fire away your questions most pros will help iam no pro a newbie that's me make friends need help ask I try to help you where I can look me up
Ovv Topik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2015-03-24 13:34:36 UTC
Tristan Locke wrote:
Hi there!

About an hour ago, after a harrowing experience of feeling completely lost in a stressful environment, it occurred to me that I am not the right player for this game:


You know what mate, I'd take a break and have a think about what you called 'a harrowing experience'.

EvE is a virtual world, but the time investment and consequences of actions/mistakes are oh so real! And that means it evokes genuine emotion. Good and bad.

A lot of us log in looking for that 'harrowing experience'. How many games get your blood pumping that much? How many recreational endeavors, where we never leave the safety and comfort of our chair, can get your hands shaking that much?

I'm not having a go at you btw, maybe we are just different. Some peoples idea of fun is a rollercoaster. Others hate them.

I'm an addict of the shakes.

"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2015-03-24 13:40:41 UTC
Ovv Topik wrote:


A lot of us log in looking for that 'harrowing experience'. How many games get your blood pumping that much? How many recreational endeavors, where we never leave the safety and comfort of our chair, can get your hands shaking that much?

I'm not having a go at you btw, maybe we are just different. Some peoples idea of fun is a rollercoaster. Others hate them.

I'm an addict of the shakes.

Oh wow I did not realize people actually liked that feeling. I think you have shed some light not only on Eve for me and why I don't like PvP but life in general and why I always feel so different. Thank you.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2015-03-24 14:42:12 UTC
most players don't know half the answers to the questions I can imagine you were asking. IE: I'd wager 75% of the playerbase knows next to nothing about Wormhoels beyoud "they take you somewhere" and "Sleepers are inside"
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
#12 - 2015-03-24 14:43:36 UTC
Ovv Topik wrote:


...Stuff.....

I'm an addict of the shakes.


For me, its not the shakes, its what they represent :)

shakes + victory = accomplishment
shakes + defeat = misery

without the shakes, victory is hollow. Eve is remarkable to me in that it actually generates the shakes in the first place. It spoiled other games for me in that hollow victory is no victory at all.

To me, without the adversity of misery, and the triumph of victory just isn't possible. Gotta have some skin in the game to feel good about the win.

My thoughts anyways. Definitely not the adrenaline junky myself :)
Tristan Locke
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-03-24 15:00:12 UTC
L'ouris wrote:
It might help you to know that you described "the shakes" that folk talk about. Especially in PVP.

That sense of distress because you don't want to lose your stuff.


Thanks. It is always useful to have a name for the phenomenon. I wasn't attached to my stuff. My reaction was how I dealt with being lost and stuck. My emotional response bothered me more being than actually being lost or stuck.

ergherhdfgh wrote:

We play this game together. The more the merrier. This "I need to be overly helpful to my corp or quit the game" concept I blame on other MMOs. If you want to last in this game it's a concept you need to drop and drop fast. You do what you enjoy and find people to do it with.


You have me correctly pegged, but in my case you can blame the USMC. Not other MMOs. I mention that only to say that the service, duty, loyalty creeds do run deep within me. Like you say, if I continued on, they would have to be reconciled or kept in check.

ergherhdfgh wrote:
It sounds to me like you got in a corp that was not a good fit. Instead of trying to find a better one you leave the game.

You do need friends in this game. You will need helpful people willing to take you by the hand and show you the ropes. It does not sound to me like you found that. Sounds to me like you found a corp that just recruits as many new players as possible hoping to get some isk via taxes instead of really being interested in playing the game with them.


First, it's unfair to peg this on the Corp. If anything, I'd say they took some chances on me. I applied very quickly right into the game after doing A LOT of outside research. I was explaining things to other new players that I'm told most new players don't know. There was every possibility that I was a spy.

Second, if I had the actual presence of mind to stop, let the warp cloak run, and ask for help, I probably would have received the help. At one point a corp mate DID see me and ask what was I doing, but I was too deep into the emotional reaction to take advantage of that, and in fact snapped at them. Now that I'm writing it, snapping at someone under pressure probably has more to do with my leaving than just feeling stuck. People rage. I never have. Even under RL pressure: I just become very, very focused. This was a troubling anomaly.

Some great responses here. All helpful. Thanks for them. Lots to think about. I'll definitely come back around one day, once I've sorted this out and put it into perspective. From what all of you are saying, it also sounds like I need to give myself a damn break from myself. So I'll work on that one too!

Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#14 - 2015-03-24 15:34:52 UTC
You sound like a great guy to have in the game, but your thoughtful and self-aware assessment makes me hesitate to try to change your mind. I will encourage you to try to understand where the stressful feeling comes from if you think it hampers your joy for life in other areas too.

Everyone is different. My wife freaks out climbing a 6' ladder whereas I love rock climbing. I think we both have the same adrenaline rush - but she internalizes it as fear, and I internalize it as excitement.

“There is nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at with no effect.” ― Winston S. Churchill


A couple of suggestions if you are still thinking about your decision
- Sugar Kyle sometimes writes about her social anxiety, but she has gone on to accomplish great things in the game. You might gain value from some of her blog posts.

- Rixx Javic takes a special interest in getting players into the game and might know of a good mentor for you in his alliance - A Band Apart.

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#15 - 2015-03-24 17:54:44 UTC
Hey. You gave it a shot and it wasn't the game for you. It happens.

And while it's nice to see the above posters trying to convince you to stick around, we know that's not going to happen. You know what you like and have made up your mind.

Thanks for sharing your story and good luck with whatever game finds you next.

Mr Epeen Cool
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2015-03-24 22:30:07 UTC
Tristan Locke wrote:


ergherhdfgh wrote:
It sounds to me like you got in a corp that was not a good fit.


First, it's unfair to peg this on the Corp. If anything, I'd say they took some chances on me.


A square peg does not fit in a round hole. Is the peg wrong for being square? Do I blame the hole for being round? I was not trying to imply that the corp was bad only that it appears to not be a good fit for you.

As far as them taking chances on you no matter how much CCP tries to tell people that eve is real it's just a game and we are all here to have fun. This is not the USMC none of us signed a contract and promised to serve for any length of time. It's a game and we pay our $15 every month to have fun. The second it stops being fun we find some other way to occupy our free time.

I'm just trying to point out that your comments here make me feel like you are taking this game too seriously. If you are not having fun by all means find something that you enjoy. However by coming here I'm assuming that you are looking for some input and don't have your mind made up for sure or you likely would have just left silently.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Kick Axe Blackwing
EVE University
Ivy League
#17 - 2015-03-25 00:13:47 UTC
Well first of all .... I don't care what you do as a new player you are fighting a severe "skill deficiency" against all older players.

You are also facing a knowledge deficiency which older crap ball players use to exploit the uninformed.

This game is indeed a "sandbox" because it allows you to be messed with almost everywhere in the game including supposedly safe space.

Just buying and selling items can result in you being exploited. And if you don't think so you haven't done it long enough and don't understand what you are doing.

As far as getting frustrated to the point of quitting I have had that experience at least 4 or 5 times in my 3 months of playing the game.

This game can be really stupid, the players that exploit the stupid loop holes are even worse, and in general it can really drive you crazy.

However, every time I say to hell with it, why waste my time with a bunch of cretins, I usually come around to the sentiment of why should I let a bunch of poop heads beat me -- and I decide to give it another go.

I will guarantee you one thing though, if you stick with it you will become a better player, and who knows maybe you will soon be giving back what you got.

Best of luck.




Moshi
Doomheim
#18 - 2015-03-25 09:30:26 UTC
What exactly was the "harrowing experience"?
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2015-03-25 11:50:38 UTC
I remember my first fleet fight. I had made a new character with the intent to learn PVP and started training combat skills. I'd already been playing for a few months, but mostly solo industry stuff. I did some research and stuck my new character in RvB to get some action.

I. Was. So. Lost.

Tackle? Point? Anchor? Align? What are these words? What are those ships? What are they doing to my Merlin and why do I always seem to be primary? The FC wants us to upship now and I can't even fly a frigate properly, much a cruiser!

I kept getting lost because I didn't understand the fleet commands. I didn't even know D-Scan existed so I just warped around blindly until I found the fleet again (sometimes it was the enemy fleet instead Big smile). I was afraid to ask questions in comms for fear of sounding stupid.

Yes, it was somewhat harrowing. But I found ways to learn - asking for 1 on 1 fights with other new players, quizzing vets about fits in "down times". I eventually joined a wormhole corporation that took me under their wing and filled in the gaps in my knowledge with even more personalized attention. Little by little I felt like less of a burden and more of an asset. Eventually I became the primary scout for that corporation and one of the most trusted members.

I think everyone has a similar experience when starting out. The sheer volume of information coming at you is massive. Vets use all kinds of abbreviations and don't stop to explain much unless you ask. The group you are with makes a huge difference, as does your attitude. A few other new players joined the same wormhole corp I did but were much less self motivated and quickly lost interest in learning the game.

This isn't to say you have an attitude problem. You are clearly intelligent and probably know what is best for yourself. It's always sad to see smart people leave the game. I just wanted to point out that while "the shakes" never fully go away, with experience you learn to enjoy them instead of fear them. It becomes more like riding a roller coaster and less like jumping off a cliff. And we have all been there before, so you are not alone.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2015-03-25 12:20:18 UTC
If you know it doesn't suit you, then there isn't a lot more to say. The pity is, your attitude is exactly the right one for the game, and in the right environment you'd thrive. Ultimately, its your call, but if you decide to give it another shot, there are organisations out there that would probably get you through the mental block you seem to have erected.

RvB (Red Federation and Blue Republic) is a great place to get your combat-legs (it's how I got over the panic of ship-on-ship combat), EvE-Uni has an excellent education system that might allow you to break the problems in to smaller chunks, Agony Unleashed do classes that might give the more personal-touch you might need, and groups like Brave Newbies, TEST Alliance, and my alliances own Karmafleet are designed to take day-1 newbies out in to Nullsec, and get them up to speed on how to live in conquerable space, with vast support-networks so that people don't feel lost and fall through the cracks.
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