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10MN Microwarp Drive I - anybody making money on this?

Author
KenFlorian
Jednota Inc
#1 - 2015-03-18 20:21:09 UTC  |  Edited by: KenFlorian
I bought a 10MN Microwarp BPO I then improved it to ME:10 and TE:20.

For simplicity ignore taxes, transportation costs.....it appears that even the cost of raw materials exceeds the price at which I can sell a unit.

Is this an example of an item which cannot be produced profitably?
Paranoid Loyd
#2 - 2015-03-18 20:26:20 UTC
Yes

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Charlie Nonoke
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#3 - 2015-03-18 20:53:37 UTC
Some advice:
RL research what you think will be profitable before in-game researching a BPO to perfect. The time spent could be used for a more profitable item.

If the minerals are expensive, search for them at cheaper prices elsewhere.
If the end product is too cheap at your local exchange, search for them at more expensive prices elsewhere.

It might mean you go into null space.

But since prevention is better than cure, do your homework first before committing to a job.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#4 - 2015-03-18 21:02:41 UTC
Your problem may well be folks like me who sell ill-begotten goods in bulk at below market prices in order to liquidate inventory*. Folks who don't produce what they sell aren't influenced by material costs.

Other possibilities include folks selling off large, long-held stockpiles, or folks playing the market by buying where minerals are cheap and selling where they aren't.



*Side note: I'm pretty sure I've briefly crashed a few T1 BPO markets that way. Why one corp had a dozen of the same cruiser BPO, fully researched, for multiple cruisers, in the same offline POS is beyond me. But hey, more profit for me.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

KenFlorian
Jednota Inc
#5 - 2015-03-18 21:10:47 UTC
Obviously I'm newer than noob. I picked that one as a place to start without stopping to consider that it might have less than 0 value to me. Buy and learn.


I'll do more investigation before the next BPO.

Then again, slightly crashing the market might have its own charm.

Thanks all for the replies.

Ken
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-03-18 21:59:37 UTC
You can always sell the BPO. Fully researched it should sell (via contract) for more than you paid for it
KenFlorian
Jednota Inc
#7 - 2015-03-18 23:07:08 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
You can always sell the BPO. Fully researched it should sell (via contract) for more than you paid for it


Yes, but that implies that somebody else has the correct configuration of "stuff" to make it profitable. I understand that this can/might actually be the case.....maybe this one is simply beyond the grasp of one so new to the game.
Shayla Sh'inlux
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-03-19 00:09:15 UTC
It just means that someone (in fact, a lot of someones) thinks that minerals he mines are free.

Welcome to the tech 1 market.
KenFlorian
Jednota Inc
#9 - 2015-03-19 00:52:38 UTC
Shayla Sh'inlux wrote:
It just means that someone (in fact, a lot of someones) thinks that minerals he mines are free.



That was me about three weeks ago.

Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-03-19 07:00:33 UTC
KenFlorian wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
You can always sell the BPO. Fully researched it should sell (via contract) for more than you paid for it


Yes, but that implies that somebody else has the correct configuration of "stuff" to make it profitable.


Or wants to make them out in nullsec where they can't get easy access to the Jita market but has a glut of locally-mined ores
Or intends to copy and invent to make T2 microwarp drives (which my calcs show makes a small profit)

Don't assume that your intended use is the only possible use
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#11 - 2015-03-19 08:51:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
KenFlorian wrote:
I bought a 10MN Microwarp BPO I then improved it to ME:10 and TE:20.

For simplicity ignore taxes, transportation costs.....it appears that even the cost of raw materials exceeds the price at which I can sell a unit.

Is this an example of an item which cannot be produced profitably?

Looking at the item in Jita:
* It has a trade volume of roughly 300 units per day.
* It takes roughly 3 day to manufacture 300 units, so 3 BPO can fill all the demand.
* There are 584 units (2 days of stock) available in bottom 10 sell orders, separated by only 1.07 ISK.
* The highest buy order is 5% below the lowest sell order.
* Estimated production UI cost (very inaccurate) is 7% above the lowest sell order.
* Most of the sell orders are for very small amounts, suggesting most sellers are not manufacturers (= low demand).

I have no idea what the actual manufacturing cost is, but just looking at that I see a market I'd avoid like the plague.
Proton Power
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2015-03-19 11:35:39 UTC
Research, Research, Research...

I have always said PVP'ers are the best manufactures; want to know why? They know what ships are in use at the time; they know what modules are in use at the time...

Your Example

10MN MWD -

Very Very few people use a T1 10mn MWD; most people use a named version which has little cost difference; better fitting requirements, little skill requirements, and is actually better than the t2 variety in many cases..

A good place to start is the thread below yours; IPH; when I was a full time producer; I used that and make billions... Before that I found my niche in the manufacturing world and built t2 comps' while not always the most profitable; over time and with some good contracts you could make billions doing those as well. Its all about research and finding you niche; sadly there is no niche for 10mn mwd's unless you find someone with a 10mn MWD T2 bpo that you can produce for; and even then you will be lucky to find much profit.
Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
#13 - 2015-03-20 11:24:47 UTC
best advice i can give you is to check out the prices of the named modules vs manufactured. If it's cheaper, don't bother with the BPO.
SJ Astralana
Syncore
#14 - 2015-03-20 12:01:24 UTC
Hmm, they're nominally profitable in Amarr. Definitely not worth building though.

Item Isk Per Hour Margin Markup Volume Competitors Profit Factor
10MN Microwarpdrive I 279,816 127,189 45.3 136.7 6 1,072,600.

Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager

ara enley
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-03-24 21:41:12 UTC
It's vendor trash from NPC's. The real profit is normally in placing a buy order at less than the cost of minerals after you reprocess it.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#16 - 2015-03-25 01:38:48 UTC
I think you lost this manufacturers/market PVP battle. Smile

☐Not rekt
☑Rekt
KenFlorian
Jednota Inc
#17 - 2015-03-25 02:24:58 UTC
"rekt" should be "wrecked". FTFY

Details. Damned details.

Eric Raeder
No Fee Too High
#18 - 2015-03-25 02:50:30 UTC
There isn't much demand for T1 modules in general. There are usually named versions that drop from npc wrecks that are simply better than T1, require no more skills, and often have easier fitting requirements. For most categories, the drops are frequent enough the named modules are cheaper than T1 modules can be made for. I can't even remember the last time I used a T1 module.


It can't really be emphasized enough that the first, most important step to making a profit from industry is to identify items that have a decent profit margin under current market conditions. You simply cannot pick a random blueprint and expect to be able to make a profit producing that item. Many, many eve players have created spreadsheets or other tools to analyze the market and figure profits to identify those items. Personally, I feel doing that work myself amounts to pointlessly reinventing the wheel, and happily use tools made by other players. For years my go-to industry tool has been Zifrian's Eve ISK per hour tool. It's almost insanely complex, and I've never used 80% of the functionality, but it does what I need, and Zifrian updates it religiously every time the industry rules change.
Chenguang Hucel-Ge
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-03-25 03:12:56 UTC
As people said, t1 market is oversaturated and many items are useless. However, should you drop several levels of security - and you can make pretty penny out of almost thin air. There is nobody using 10MN MWD I, yes, but 1MN MWD sells a bit. Also, Null always got needs in cargoholds for cyno needs. Warrior I, ECM Hornets and Hobs I got some demand almost anywhere in border null.
Certain ships are selling too. Notably, t1 exploration frigates, "tackling" frigates and certain (CERTAIN) combat ones, namely incursus and tristan. You can try your luck with Vexors, Thoraxes, Mallers (to much lesser extent). Oracles might work too.

In fact, it's probably the only market where you can sell t1 without being ripped off. Yes, t1 performs worse than meta/t2, but market is small, transportation is risky and many people prefer to fly on things that just enough to get things done.