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A Carebear objective.
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Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2011-12-23 20:31:02 UTC
@ Alysane true

But when it comes to war decs. When few man corporation war dec some corporation who is consistent mainly with people without any PvP experience or only large blob PvP.

Those non-PvPers all of them wish they can hunt them down and destroy their toyes, but they ussually lose when they try, hence denial of target policy.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#62 - 2011-12-23 20:31:22 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Many do not understand why some players so strongly avoid PvP combat. The best reason I have found is they do not get The Rush:


You're correct but missing one other bit.

Some people play games to get that rush, some other play games to relax after having that rush at work.

Some people play games like EvE to try their hand at leading a group in action, some play games like EvE to be able to work in a team and not having to lead (without the loss in salary or RL social standings).

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#63 - 2011-12-23 20:31:31 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
To use one quote : about neut RR
Crying because your enemy is superior in any way to you is really pathetic. Make friends contact some "alliances" which deals with such thing, they will help if you provide people and an attitude to fight back. Big smile


They try hard to FORCE people to do stuff they don't want to do!

They claim "my sandbox" but refuse other might have other sandboxes!

They use every dirty trick (up to cheating, hacking, REAL criminal stuff) to do it!

They NEVER chose targets, which might be stronger ... and if they did by mistake they run like chickens!

So no respect from this idiots, sorry. In my eyes they all suck and failed in real life.

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#64 - 2011-12-23 21:00:17 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Yes this would make high sec Happy Rainbow Land. But maybe for the overall health of EVE Online, this would be a good thing.
Yes, eroding the core of the game is sure to end well.

Zyress wrote:
If Pvp players didn't take part in some form of pve they would soon be flying rookie ships to pvp in as they would eventually be out of money, you cannot support your pvp without Pve, mining or mission running.
Uh, no. You should consider actually playing EVE some time.

Jojo Jackson wrote:
What a singel player does no, but again you miss the point, that maybe 75% of all custumers are PvE highsecers.

If CCP start to give a **** about our will ... we leave.
If we can't play OUR SANDBOX ... why should we play at all?
a) A lot of highsec characters are alts of lowsec/0.0 people.

b) There is only one sandbox, you don't get your own partitioned from everyone else.

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
When you sell entertainment, your target audience sets the limit of your growth.
Yes, choosing typical PvE waste of time approach. MMOs do well and then implode. By choosing something different CCP has grown EVE consistently year-on-year, with the sole exception of their biggest foray away from EVE's core so far, which resulted in a loss of subscribers and even employees.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#65 - 2011-12-23 21:06:29 UTC
Quote:
It does not matter what carrot or rod CCP uses, I will not PVP against my will.

Well of course you have that option. However adding smallholding targets, and preventing corps from being able to dodge the entire wardec mechanic are good for gameplay.

Say pvp corp x declares war on larger corp y. Corp x has no carebaring operations or holdings and docks up whenever a sufficient hostile fleet shows up. Corp y then learns that corp x has association with carebare corp z, and that corp z has a couple research towers in highsec, mission runners, etc or (insert future small holdings here). So in retaliation, corp y declares war on corp z. Corp Z should not be immune to the wardec by simply switching alliance shells.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#66 - 2011-12-23 23:03:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Covert Kitty wrote:
Quote:
It does not matter what carrot or rod CCP uses, I will not PVP against my will.

Well of course you have that option. However adding smallholding targets, and preventing corps from being able to dodge the entire wardec mechanic are good for gameplay.

Say pvp corp x declares war on larger corp y. Corp x has no carebaring operations or holdings and docks up whenever a sufficient hostile fleet shows up. Corp y then learns that corp x has association with carebare corp z, and that corp z has a couple research towers in highsec, mission runners, etc or (insert future small holdings here). So in retaliation, corp y declares war on corp z. Corp Z should not be immune to the wardec by simply switching alliance shells.


I don't know what wars you guys are fighting but most of the ones I have seen are lame, from both sides. Gate camping, station camping or one side mowing down the other or one side having a fleet formula, that once you counter it, they run for the hills.

We chose an alliance that was roughly the same number of people, same sort of SP in them and such, really tried to find a good challenging war. They met us at a gate, (neutral scouts for the win? Roll ) and they had better hulls than us. We went right through them without a loss and they hid from there on out. I even tried to give some of them genuinely good advice, like fits on sites, so that they could put up a bit of a fight. Nope, they wanted to be n00bs.

The only really good PVP I have seen is when you get lucky and find a similar size fleet in low sec or you get a gang together and counter another gang in a worm hole.

Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
...
I know quite a few "pirates" And they are really great people, they know how to PvP with risk but they also do wardec "industrial" corporation for an extortion pay. .. Big smile


We had some corp war dec us, can't even remember the name now. they padded their kill board with some newbs and carebears but we adapted around them. Then they tried to get us to pay them to drop the war dec! ShockedLolLol

Kept coming back with smaller and smaller offers and we kept laughing about it. It was just that they must have thought they were hot stuff, while most of us hardly knew they existed. Smile

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#67 - 2011-12-24 00:04:02 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Kept coming back with smaller and smaller offers and we kept laughing about it. It was just that they must have thought they were hot stuff, while most of us hardly knew they existed. Smile

Then why is it an issue?

O.o

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#68 - 2011-12-24 01:44:11 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:

Then why is it an issue?

O.o



Core group <-------------------------------------> newbies and miners.


Guess which is most affected and we would like to keep around, for social reasons and in case they do become something more?

...by the time these extortion came through, we had lost all the newbs and miners that were going to go. There is no way we would pay for it anyway. Once you give into that sort of thing, you have a queue lining up around the block with their hands out. No, I would rather spite them and flame out that let them be parasites.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#69 - 2011-12-24 02:15:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuri Kinnes
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:

Then why is it an issue?

O.o



Core group <-------------------------------------> newbies and miners.


Guess which is most affected and we would like to keep around, for social reasons and in case they do become something more?

...by the time these extortion came through, we had lost all the newbs and miners that were going to go. There is no way we would pay for it anyway. Once you give into that sort of thing, you have a queue lining up around the block with their hands out. No, I would rather spite them and flame out that let them be parasites.

Well, I wasn't suggesting for a minute that you pay the extortion. I would only trust the pirate corp "The Bastards" with a ransom, tbqh. They honor ransom's, when they offer them, it's one of their principles...

As for why everyone left, tbqh, I'm guessing it's because you older guys didn't give the newbs some guidance... just sayin...

Edit to add: If you guys (the core group) had any isk at all, why not set some traps? Don't fight on gates, use the belts, sun, planets or moons... get the newbs in rifters/kestrels/ecm frigs and scram the jerks.....

I don't *hate* "carebears" (tbqh - I was one for basically 8 months). I just wish the new guys would get a little push that pvp ain't all bad...

I live in WH's. I only "pvp when I want to", so to speak. But I'm *ready* if I *have* to whenever. It's just a mental adjustment...

Wish you luck and all, but I do believe (just my uninformed opinion here) that war-dec mechanics will be revisted and adjusted. How much and which way, only time will tell, but I think it will be towards war, and not peace.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Kwilyn Bathana
Doomheim
#70 - 2011-12-24 02:35:46 UTC
Sverige Pahis wrote:
Mandatory movement of players in starter corps into their own (self named) war-decable corporation after they reach 3 months of age. Removal of other NPC player corporations, players join new corps directly from their old one. If the CEO boots them they get moved back into their own 1-man self-named corp. No player should be able to evade PvP for any substantial amount of time without expending actual effort.



I love crap like this...this is probably from one of the type that has 4 years pvp experience and go around war deccing newbie corps.

From the "pvp" i've seen in highsec i have felt like there isn't enough hot water in the world to wash clean from.

What the posters promote as "The Rush" and the great feeling of true fights is more accurately described as running babies over with tanks.

Keep talking ...sure one day we'll believe you.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#71 - 2011-12-24 15:49:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
...
As for why everyone left, tbqh, I'm guessing it's because you older guys didn't give the newbs some guidance... just sayin...

Edit to add: If you guys (the core group) had any isk at all, why not set some traps? Don't fight on gates, use the belts, sun, planets or moons... get the newbs in rifters/kestrels/ecm frigs and scram the jerks.....
...


Only so many times you can repeat yourself until they must go out and learn from experience, then have a good cry about it. Blink

As for traps - why? I mean all they did was send out neutral scouts everywhere and run at the first sign of a real fight. They even had some bluster explanation about it, to do with being pirates or something. We just changed some things and they didn't have many targets left, then the extortion offers came through. They were nothing more than mildly annoying.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Embrace My Hate
Bitmap Brothers
#72 - 2011-12-24 15:55:31 UTC
lol
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#73 - 2011-12-24 15:59:19 UTC
I self destruct RIGHT AS CONCORD shows up. No kill mail and TONS of QQ !!!

Their reactions are more hilarious than freshly surprise-ganked noob tears. Crybabies all, that's for sure.

Also, the ONLY time I had my Mack popped, they were too stupid to even salvage their own crap......my Orca salvaged it ALL....my ship, theirs, ALL the stuff they had stolen all day. Between insurance and THEIR loot, I came out 5 million on the PLUS side of that 'gank'.

Clueless idiots for the most part. Very few with any class like......well, we know who they are.........


"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Mag's
Azn Empire
#74 - 2011-12-24 16:03:43 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
I would only trust the pirate corp "The Bastards" with a ransom, tbqh. They honor ransom's, when they offer them, it's one of their principles....
It's also one of ours, as we always honour ransoms too.

As far as the OP is concerned, I really don't see any issue. If you don't want to fight, then avoid it. I don't mind the whole war dec avoidance, just as I have no problem with suicide ganking. But this game is PvP centric and you'll always be taking part, unless you log in and do nothing at all.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#75 - 2011-12-24 16:05:29 UTC
Kwilyn Bathana wrote:
...
What the posters promote as "The Rush" and the great feeling of true fights is more accurately described as running babies over with tanks.
...


I don't know what the running newbies over feels like. I shot some PVE ratter guy in a Tengu and even though I tanked him in a Cyclone, I felt a bit guilty. He had none of the PVP gear, I could have warped off at any time, he had no hope of beating the four of us. He would have been dead even if there was help a warp away.
Very unsatisfying.

The rush I get is when we jump through a gate and the other fleet is waiting, they have a few more pilots that are in better ships, I get made primary target and I just know that one mistake and I will probably pop. Seeing your ship going into structure, seeing theirs going too, then somehow they blow up and there is just that little difference to the damage done to you that you can rep back up. That breaking point where one fleet can win or lose. That is good. Big smile

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#76 - 2011-12-24 16:45:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Is homeworld republic still losing POS towers to people they declared war on "for practice" and are you still being reprimanded by your CEO for getting your corp in trouble with people who can and will kick the snot out of you?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#77 - 2011-12-24 16:56:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Is homeworld republic still losing POS towers to people they declared war on "for practice" and are you still being reprimanded by your CEO for getting your corp in trouble with people who can and will kick the snot out of you?


Do you really want to dig up the skeletons?

I said that a shuttle kill wasn't worth a kill mail, especially when it was empty. People got their panties in a twist over that.
Actually, we recently blew up a POS of some guys that got one of ours. Guess we are learning.

Do you really want everyone knowing that your corp ran and hid behind neutral RR and played station games with a little gang that had less than 10M SP each?
Do you really want everyone knowing that as soon as I swopped over to a null sec corp you fell suddenly and mysteriously silent? Where did all the threats go then?
Yeah, easy enough to be big and tough with what was essentially a mining corp at the time, when you had some medium sized alliances to blind side them with, not so easy when you might have real PVPers to contend with. Roll

P.S. If you were getting upset because you thought the post prior to yours had anything to do with you - wrong. I had totally forgotten about you guys.

P.P.S. In general, let me clue some people in. When you have been a member of an opposition government and actually had your life under threat, then little Internet pukes, can blow up as many ships as they like and say as many nasty things as they want - they will only get contempt.

I can always swop over to another corp or alliance, to an alt, call in some favours or make what ever tactical decision with in the game but if you are looking for me to care about you, to fear, hate or respect you, then you are doing the completely the wrong thing - the Internet isn't real, it is just some easy access entertainment.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#78 - 2011-12-24 23:54:16 UTC
Alysane wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Give NPC corps more drawbacks, such as the inability to dock in stations owned by rival corps, and "tariffs" that are significantly higher taxes charged for operating in empires other than their corp's. Also restrict their access to other corps' agents and occasionally change corp standings so that they might lose access to agents from time to time due to corporate diplomacy. The idea is that if you're going to work for a corp that isn't player controlled, you're subject to the whims of NPC politics.


lol....what? So your grand idea is to tax NPC corp players more, while also screwing with their corp standings (that probably took weeks to raise) AND limit what agents they can run missions for?

Hate to break it to you, but the only PVP these grand ideas will lead to is Carebears vs. CCP, with Unsubscription and Angry Forum Posts as ammo.

Just how many carebears spend years in NPC corps? Do you really think there are that many solo players out there who put money into Eve for an extended period of time? I'm betting that the volume of rage quits would be insignificant. It's been my experience that most NPC corp members are alts and newbies. The newbies wouldn't know better and would simply accept that they needed to get out of the NPC corp to access most of the game. The alt owners would whine and make one-man corps.

My grand idea is to make the established NPC corps act like corps instead of static war shelters with a modest tax. In the player environment, corporate relationships and standings change regularly. I'm suggesting that NPC corps reflect that sort of behavior.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Fiori 161
Doomheim
#79 - 2011-12-25 00:45:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Fiori 161
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Breaths into a paper bag



Your thread is hurting my brain. Just play the damn game however you want and try to have some fun while you are doing it. It does not matter if you play PC games or Xbox live, you will be dealing with children and stupid people. If you want to play this one, you have to deal with whatever rules CCP throws at you and 40,000 boneheads on average, there to take pop shots at your carebear ships.


It has been what, seven years? Everyone should be used to this by now, so dry your little noses and fly a shuttle during wartime if you want to. The safest places you can be are 1. NPC corp (taxed for safety from war is not so bad) 2. Nullsec so deep that your alone in local for 5 jumps. There is plenty of both.


Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
the Internet isn't real, it is just some easy access entertainment.


Fantastic advice, you should take some.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#80 - 2011-12-25 01:34:59 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
As long as this meta game of neutral RR and scout fleets is posible there is simply NO RESON to fight!

I've been pushing for a change to aggression mechanics that would make neutral RR a lot more risky. It shouldn't be stopped, but it should carry risk beyond someone being able to pull a surprise alpha gank on your logi alt.

Jojo Jackson wrote:
You (common wannabe grief "PvPler"´) allways try to argue with "this is my Sandbox" ... if you claim this -> you MUST except other peoples Sandbox too!

It's one big sandbox, and we all share it. Build your sandcastles all you want, but DON'T ask for protection from those who want to kick them down. That's the meaning of sandbox.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.